Why I used to avoid the Catholic Church

[Matthew1980]

Mostly the Catholics themselves turned me away from even considering the Catholic Church. Half of all Christians in the world are Catholic but unfortunately I had to only know the “bad Catholics”. The ones that haven’t been to Mass in years, the ones who wear the Rosary but curse, swear, and are just offensive, the ones who talk about going to Mass and then turn around and talk about hurting someone, basically the ones who live like there is no God, but I am talking about people who have at one time or another since I’ve known them mention themselves as Catholic.
These people include my own relatives.

My more enlightened response to this: 1st, it’s not my place to call any of these people hypocrites and liars. I cannot pass judgement because even when I was a believing Mormon I wasn’t perfect. I doubt I will be the best Catholic either. 2nd, so what if these bad apples reflected badly on the Catholic Church. When I am a baptized Catholic I will do my best and what these other people do will be between themselves and God because I believe one day they will have to stand before Him and give accountability of their choices. So will I.

My second problem with the Catholic Church is that it used to bother me seeing these festivals on Church property. The only time my mother ever stepped foot into a Catholic Church was to play Bingo. When I was familiar with New Testament stories I began to think of Jesus going through the temple and chasing out the vendors and gamblers. I used to think the Catholic Church was going to be in Big Trouble. I never bothered getting the Catholic Church’s side of the story until today and found this article which explained things for me.
ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GAMBLING.HTM

Basically, gambling is not necessarily evil as long as you aren’t gambling the money you need to support yourself or your family and as long as the games are fair and the money is going to good causes. I can accept that.

Lastly, I believed what Mormons and Evangelicals said about the Catholic Church - that you Catholics were a bunch of Mary-worshipping idolaters (no offense). But now, being more enlightened, I know Catholics only worship God. I found this article which explains why Catholics pray to Saints.
matt1618.freeyellow.com/saints.html
I’m paraphrasing here but I find that interesting when it argues that when you, the Catholic, pray to a Saint, you are only asking that Saint to pray for you to God. If that is a sin then isn’t a Protestant sinning when he or she prays on behalf of another sinner?

 

[AgnosTheist]

when you, the Catholic, pray to a Saint, you are only asking that Saint to pray for you to God. If that is a sin then isn’t a Protestant sinning when he or she prays on behalf of another sinner?

Logically, praying to a dead person grants the deceased some degree of divine powers.

 

[ibkc]

Logically, praying to a dead person grants the deceased some degree of divine powers.

How so? How is it different than asking your (living) neighbor to pray for you? By doing so are you assuming that your neighbor has divine powers?

If we believed that dead people could do things for us on their own merit, that is believing that they have divine powers. When I was pagan, I indulged in ancestor worship and I did believe they could do things directly for me. That is a world of difference that and the Catholic belief in intercessory prayer.

 

[water]

Logically, praying to a dead person grants the deceased some degree of divine powers.

Firstly, they are not dead. When you are in Heaven, they are more alive than you are here on earth.

Secondly, we believe that if God can do anything, so can He with the Saints in Heaven.

The big problem with this is that people think the Catholics place the Saints especially Virgin Mary on the same level as God. That is very wrong.

God is above all and He can grant whatever He wishes to His Children. This including allows the Saints to hear our prayers.

As God the Father is glorified by God the Son. The Son is also glorified by the Communion of Saints.

 

[water]

Matthew1980, the Communion of Saints is an awesome way of how God show us how Love lasts forever. Indeed, the Saints in Heaven still love us as they had lived on Earth before except they know how to love according to God’s will way better than when they were here on earth.

If God is using you as his instrument, He can do the same with those Saints in Heaven. It is all for the glory of God.

 

[AgnosTheist]

How so? How is it different than asking your (living) neighbor to pray for you? By doing so are you assuming that your neighbor has divine powers?

for one:

a living person can only hear one prayer request at a time.
a dead person has to have some degree of omniscience in order to hear millions of prayers simultaneously.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Firstly, they are not dead. When you are in Heaven, they are more alive than you are here on earth.

oh yeah? do they have beer? no. we are more alive than they are ever gonna be.

 

[Hisalone]

My second problem with the Catholic Church is that it used to bother me seeing these festivals on Church property. The only time my mother ever stepped foot into a Catholic Church was to play Bingo. When I was familiar with New Testament stories I began to think of Jesus going through the temple and chasing out the vendors and gamblers. I used to think the Catholic Church was going to be in Big Trouble. I never bothered getting the Catholic Church’s side of the story until today and found this article which explained things for me.
ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GAMBLING.HTM

Basically, gambling is not necessarily evil as long as you aren’t gambling the money you need to support yourself or your family and as long as the games are fair and the money is going to good causes. I can accept that.

Lastly, I believed what Mormons and Evangelicals said about the Catholic Church - that you Catholics were a bunch of Mary-worshipping idolaters (no offense). But now, being more enlightened, I know Catholics only worship God. I found this article which explains why Catholics pray to Saints.
matt1618.freeyellow.com/saints.html
I’m paraphrasing here but I find that interesting when it argues that when you, the Catholic, pray to a Saint, you are only asking that Saint to pray for you to God. If that is a sin then isn’t a Protestant sinning when he or she prays on behalf of another sinner?

Who says that the only problem with gambling is if you gamble from need not want?
Sounds like not only have you drank the kool-aide but the eaten the crackers as well.

 

[Rocky]

Who says that the only problem with gambling is if you gamble from need not want?
Sounds like not only have you drank the kool-aide but the eaten the crackers as well.

If by kool-aide and crackers you are referring to the Eucharist, you have been very disrespectful here.

 

[ibkc]

for one:

a living person can only hear one prayer request at a time.
a dead person has to have some degree of omniscience in order to hear millions of prayers simultaneously.

Hmmm, for an agnostic, you seem mighty sure of the exact nature of deity and what is or is not possible in the afterlife for us regular schmucks. I disagree that belief that the deceased can hear prayers amounts to worship of the deceased.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Hmmm, for an agnostic, you seem mighty sure of the exact nature of deity and what is or is not possible in the afterlife for us regular schmucks.

yeah thanks to 10 years of Catholic school.

I disagree that belief that the deceased can hear prayers amounts to worship of the deceased.

dulia worship. its not the same as the worship of god. but still a form of worship.

 

[1234]

I never understood why we should have to ask gods for anything, anyway. If the god is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, it should know what I need and give it to me without my having to ask for it.

My kids didn’t have to ask us for food, shelter, clothing, education, our love, and medical care, college education, vacations…we gave these things to them because we loved them. If they wanted something, we’d talk about it and give it to them if it seemed reasonable.

But theists and espec RC’s pray and pray and PRAY for something, switching saints if one doesn’t work, doing rosaries, novenas, etc etc on and ON as if their god/saints don’t know, haven’t heard, what they want or need. And they are often praying for necessary things–food, jobs, health. If it’s good and necessary, we don’t need to ASK and ASK for it…do we?

 

[Believe_85]

I never understood why we should have to ask gods for anything, anyway. If the god is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, it should know what I need and give it to me without my having to ask for it.

My kids didn’t have to ask us for food, shelter, clothing, education, our love, and medical care, college education, vacations…we gave these things to them because we loved them. If they wanted something, we’d talk about it and give it to them if it seemed reasonable.

But theists and espec RC’s pray and pray and PRAY for something, switching saints if one doesn’t work, doing rosaries, novenas, etc etc on and ON as if their god/saints don’t know, haven’t heard, what they want or need. And they are often praying for necessary things–food, jobs, health. If it’s good and necessary, we don’t need to ASK and ASK for it…do we?

God gives us amazing gifts without our asking…Proof of His mercy and love. What is so wrong with exercising some humility and asking the One who loves us completely when we are in need? If we don’t ask, we take His gifts for granted.

 

[AgnosTheist]

God gives us amazing gifts without our asking…Proof of His mercy and love. What is so wrong with exercising some humility and asking the One who loves us completely when we are in need? If we don’t ask, we take His gifts for granted.

There is no better gift than being in touch with your loved one. Countless people have lived and died without hearing about Jesus & Allah.

Is that what you call “One who loves us completely”?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Logically, praying to a dead person grants the deceased some degree of divine powers.

I was given “some degree of divine powers at baptism.” It is called grace. Imagine those who make it to heaven who become “partakers in the Divine Nature.” Let the grace flow!

 

[Believe_85]

There is no better gift than being in touch with your loved one. Countless people have lived and died without hearing about Jesus & Allah.

Is that what you call “One who loves us completely”?

From what I read above, you are saying that because people have not heard of God or Jesus, God does not love them or give them gifts, especially the gift of believing in him? Is that a correct interpretation?

 

[jmcrae]

yeah thanks to 10 years of Catholic school.

Just because you went to a school doesn’t mean that you retained anything beyond what you use on a daily basis - otherwise, I would be a scientist and mathematician (I went to secular public schools).

 

[AgnosTheist]

From what I read above, you are saying that because people have not heard of God or Jesus, God does not love them or give them gifts, especially the gift of believing in him? Is that a correct interpretation?

No. God loves them alright, but its like a busy rich man who finds time in anything except the time to spend time with his family so his children can get to know him better. For that rich man, being a provider alone is enough to show his “love”. Is that an ideal Dad? Certainly not! But he does have some degree of love for his family.

And this analogy goes for believers. Who always try to communicated with God, but God refuses to communicate back.

For people who lived and died without knowing Jesus, its like a man who gave away his children for adoption, and gave the orphanage some money for his children that he gave away. These poor kids grow up guessing who their parents are. And died not knowing.

 

[Believe_85]

No. God loves them alright, but its like a busy rich man who finds time in anything except the time to spend time with his family so his children can get to know him better. For that rich man, being a provider alone is enough to show his “love”. Is that an ideal Dad? Certainly not! But he does have some degree of love for his family.

And this analogy goes for believers. Who always try to communicated with God, but God refuses to communicate back.

For people who lived and died without knowing Jesus, its like a man who gave away his children for adoption, and gave the orphanage some money for his children that he gave away. These poor kids grow up guessing who their parents are. And died not knowing.

God has forgotten no one. If your prayers were “unanswered” ( or you didn’t like the answer…) it was because God’s will differed from your own. If you can’t accept that and develop some humility, you will never be at peace.

 

[1234]

God has forgotten no one. If your prayers were “unanswered” ( or you didn’t like the answer…) it was because God’s will differed from your own. If you can’t accept that and develop some humility, you will never be at peace.

…so you pray that your child not die of leukemia and your child dies.

God thought better than you.

Who needs that sort of god?