Why I'm considering Eastern Orthodoxy

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oneseeker2

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instead of Catholicism…

The EO church does not seem to have parishioners pushing for:
changes in the liturgy
inclusive language
women priests
gay priests
women at the altar
abortion rights
and many other things such as that…

there isn’t the constant talk of clown masses, Obama speaking at Orthodox colleges, prominent Orthodox taking communion and then backing gay rights or abortion, inclusive “God is a women” language that some in the RC want, and constant complaints even on this forum about priests and bishops who not only allow these things with no consequence, but are sometimes the ones pushing it! :nope:

How is it that overall (no church is perfect), but overall, the EO have maintained the faith for all these years without these issues constantly coming up? Especially since they don’t have a pope, or head other than Christ and the Patriachs to pass on the faith and keep the faithful in line? 🤷

oneseeker2
 
I understand your sentiments, but they mean nothing, really. Remember that during the Arian heresy some 80-90% of all bishops had succumbed to heresy. That didn’t prove that the Church (united at that time) was false.

Maybe you should take a glass-half-full approach rather than a glass-half-empty. Even with the full assault of 60s-inspired “liberation”, the Church has held together, and is now beginning a strong renewal (see Benedict XVI’s examples). The EO Church was not assaulted in such a manner.
 
oneseeker2 said:
instead of Catholicism…

The EO church does not seem to have parishioners pushing for:
changes in the liturgy
inclusive language
women priests
gay priests
women at the altar
abortion rights
and many other things such as that…

there isn’t the constant talk of clown masses, Obama speaking at Orthodox colleges, prominent Orthodox taking communion and then backing gay rights or abortion, inclusive “God is a women” language that some in the RC want, and constant complaints even on this forum about priests and bishops who not only allow these things with no consequence, but are sometimes the ones pushing it! :nope:

How is it that overall (no church is perfect), but overall, the EO have maintained the faith for all these years without these issues constantly coming up? Especially since they don’t have a pope, or head other than Christ and the Patriachs to pass on the faith and keep the faithful in line? 🤷

oneseeker2
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It does not sound like you spent much time looking at them. They have problems with Modernism just like the Western Church. It is just that since the Catholic Church is so much larger that the number of apostates is proportionately larger leading them to be a bit more organized. Since the Catholic Church is fairly well organized, it is very east target.

Additionally, not too much is known about the Eastern Churches in the West. So when someone criticizes them, two things do not happen, people understand them, and people pay attention. But when the Catholic Church is criticized, the media is very quick to pick it up. Just look at the response to the Holy Father’s comments about condoms in Africa.

The grass is not always greener.
 
rpp said:
It does not sound like you spent much time looking at them. They have problems with Modernism just like the Western Church. It is just that since the Catholic Church is so much larger that the number of apostates is proportionately larger leading them to be a bit more organized. Since the Catholic Church is fairly well organized, it is very east target.

Additionally, not too much is known about the Eastern Churches in the West. So when someone criticizes them, two things do not happen, people understand them, and people pay attention. But when the Catholic Church is criticized, the media is very quick to pick it up. Just look at the response to the Holy Father’s comments about condoms in Africa.

The grass is not always greener.
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This is exactly right. On top of that, the media doesn’t really focus on the East, especially the media in their own countries. So it’s wrong to thing that just because they aren’t appearing in the paper that nothing is wrong or that they don’t share the same struggles.

Plus, the last scuffle was about the Pope’s condom comments, but since no other Christian body shares that level of morality, they wont be as easy of targets.
 
Actually, rpp, I’ve spent many years looking at both, particularly EO. I know that they fuss over things like old calendar/new calendar, priestly dress, ecumenalism-which most hate, but there is a vocal minority. However, I have never heard of a clown mass, abortion rights allies speaking at their schools, use of inclusive language, bishops pushing for “what’s current and relevant” and other innovations in the EO church.

Sorry, if you can point out these things to me, I’ll reconsider this statement.

oneseeker2
 
Just consider, in your investigations, which Church is it that Satan is most likely to attack, and with the most vigor? The Church with the fullness of truth, or a Church which, though it contains much truth, does not contain the fullness of truth? Much can be known of a person (or organization) by looking at his/its enemies.
 
VociMike said:
I understand your sentiments, but they mean nothing, really. Remember that during the Arian heresy some 80-90% of all bishops had succumbed to heresy. That didn’t prove that the Church (united at that time) was false.

Maybe you should take a glass-half-full approach rather than a glass-half-empty. Even with the full assault of 60s-inspired “liberation”, the Church has held together, and is now beginning a strong renewal (see Benedict XVI’s examples). The EO Church was not assaulted in such a manner.
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Excellent points, Mike. And the Arian heresy was only one of many to arise within the Eastern Church: the vast majority of the ancient and medieval heresies sprang from the East:
  1. Gnosticism
  2. Marcionism
  3. Monarchianism/Adoptionism
  4. Montanism
  5. Manichaneanism
  6. Sabellianism
  7. Subordination
  8. Arianism
  9. Nestorianism
  10. Macedonianism
  11. Monophysism
  12. Monothelitism
  13. Iconoclasm
  14. Paulicianism/Bogamilism
And some add Islam to this list.

The only ancient heresy that arose in the West was Pelagianism, and the West immediately condemned it, whereas the East entertained it as orthodox for a good long time. And, in medieval times, the only real Western heresies were Berengarianism and Catharism (Albigensianism), but Catharism/Albigensianism was merely a Western form of Paulicianism/Bogamilism, which sprang up in N. Spain/S. France thanks to refugees from the East. I suppose one can see the rise again of the already-condemned “Americanism”/Liberalism, but that is being ably handled by the See of Peter. If one doesn’t have the patience and the long-view of history, one may be tempted to opt for that which at moment seems stable.
 
oneseeker2 said:
instead of Catholicism…

The EO church does not seem to have parishioners pushing for:
changes in the liturgy
inclusive language
women priests
gay priests
women at the altar
abortion rights
and many other things such as that…

there isn’t the constant talk of clown masses, Obama speaking at Orthodox colleges, prominent Orthodox taking communion and then backing gay rights or abortion, inclusive “God is a women” language that some in the RC want, and constant complaints even on this forum about priests and bishops who not only allow these things with no consequence, but are sometimes the ones pushing it! :nope:
Click to expand...
It occurs to me that Islam doesn’t have these problems either. Nor does Hinduism or Buddhism or Taoism. What conclusions would you draw from that?
 
VociMike said:
It occurs to me that Islam doesn’t have these problems either. Nor does Hinduism or Buddhism or Taoism. What conclusions would you draw from that?
Click to expand...
I’ve actually never thought of it that way. 😊 It gives me some food for thought.

oneseeker2
 
Isn’t modernism, which threatens the Catholic church, the mother of all heresies?

In that it puts man above god. Isn’t that why the Catholic Mass was changed? To assert the eminence of man over god? Afterall, the Priest doesn’t face god, he faces the people.

If the Orthodox have a truer Mass then there is a lot to be said for that.🙂
 
oneseeker2 said:
Actually, rpp, I’ve spent many years looking at both, particularly EO. I know that they fuss over things like old calendar/new calendar, priestly dress, ecumenalism-which most hate, but there is a vocal minority. However, I have never heard of a clown mass, abortion rights allies speaking at their schools, use of inclusive language, bishops pushing for “what’s current and relevant” and other innovations in the EO church.

Sorry, if you can point out these things to me, I’ll reconsider this statement.

oneseeker2
Click to expand...
I can’t point them out to you directly, but i’ve met more than my fair share of orthodox catholics who support women priesthood, abortions, gay “rights”, etc. The difference is really size, belief, and location… their locus is in the east where they’re generally outside of the general purview of society. Further, they’re more into mysticism than the catholics, so they have less general conflict to air out in public since less is clearly defined. Further, the single fact of numbers comes into play: when you only have 225 million vice 1.2 BILLION members, it is easier to maintain orthodoxy. With a larger general population, our vocal minority is MUCH larger than theirs.
 
VociMike said:
Just consider, in your investigations, which Church is it that Satan is most likely to attack, and with the most vigor?
Click to expand...
Oh please. I do not think you want to get into a game of post schism martyr counting. 😦
 
FCEGM said:
And the Arian heresy was only one of many to arise within the Eastern Church: the vast majority of the ancient and medieval heresies sprang from the East:
Click to expand...
Thank God for St Athanasius the Great for battling the Arian heresy so valiantly–oops --wait a minute—he was from Alexandria!

The Church was one–East and West. Please try not to invent a retroactive great schism. You are inviting a game of West vs East in the early Church. This is shameful. 😦
 
VociMike said:
It occurs to me that Islam doesn’t have these problems either. Nor does Hinduism or Buddhism or Taoism. What conclusions would you draw from that?
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I’ll answer that. Those that you list are not Christian–whereas Holy Orthodoxy is the one holy catholic and apostolic Church. 👍

I hope you are now finished with your insults toward the Holy Orthodox Church.
 
Mickey said:
Oh please. I do not think you want to get into a game of post schism martyr counting. 😦
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In the first place, try and refrain from the “oh please” nonsense. I’m sure you can communicate your points without that.

In the second place, my point was much more general than you seem to think.
 
promethius said:
I can’t point them out to you directly, but i’ve met more than my fair share of orthodox catholics who support women priesthood, abortions, gay “rights”, etc.
Click to expand...
I never see or hear of such things in the Orthodox Church. Where are your stats?
promethius said:
their locus is in the east where they’re generally outside of the general purview of society.
Click to expand...
You are joking, right? :rotfl:
promethius said:
Further, the single fact of numbers comes into play:
Click to expand...
Numbers is meaningless. The path is narrow.
 
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