Why is a Homosexual prevented from changing his sexuality to heterosexual?

[shaky]

As Catholics It is SIN for us Single heterosexuals to have sexual thoughts of the Single opposit sex or even look at the single opposit sex sexually.Or even Just Imagine sexual thoughts in general

So if a homosexual or lesbian Comes to Christ and his Church. How can they Possibly Change or Know they have Changed if they cant look at the single opposit sex sexually or even have sexual thoughts of the opposit sex?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

As Catholics It is SIN for us Single heterosexuals to have sexual thoughts of the Single opposite sex or even look at the single opposite sex sexually.Or even Just Imagine sexual thoughts in general

So if a homosexual or lesbian Comes to Christ and his Church. How can they Possibly Change or Know they have Changed if they cant look at the single opposite sex sexually or even have sexual thoughts of the opposite sex?

You don’t need to become heterosexual to become Catholic, you need to stop engaging in homosexual acts (duh) and stop (willfully) entertaining sexual thoughts. You shouldn’t be entertaining sexual thought of someone of the opposite gender unless they are your spouse

 

[Wowbagger]

I’m pretty sure you can tell, inside yourself, even if you’re not entertaining lusts.

But it’s important to remember: homosexuals don’t need to become heterosexuals to be Catholics. They just have to embrace chastity, as all Catholics must.

 

[Tannhauser]

As Catholics It is SIN for us Single heterosexuals to have sexual thoughts of the Single opposit sex or even look at the single opposit sex sexually.Or even Just Imagine sexual thoughts in general

I think you’re wrong here. I think the [venial] sin is when we actively encourage those thoughts in our material actions [e.g., having sexual thoughts about a man/woman isn’t really a problem - it’s quite natural… if anything it’s an opportunity to say the Glory Be and thank God for that particular man/woman’s beauty. If you begin looking up her skirt or masturbating over her, then you’re in the territory of sin].

The Catechism describes lust as **disordered desire **for or **inordinate enjoyment **of sexual pleasure. A desire that is inherently disordered would be desire towards certain homosexual activity, and an inordinate enjoyment of sex would be a little more than “oh gosh I wouldn’t mind kissing her!”

 

[shaky]

I’m pretty sure you can tell, inside yourself, even if you’re not entertaining lusts.

But it’s important to remember: homosexuals don’t need to become heterosexuals to be Catholics. They just have to embrace chastity, as all Catholics must.

Well when i was very young before i became a christian the only way i knew i was sexually attracted to women was by sexual fantasies with a imaginary woman. Then i knew my sexuality was functioning towards women. I don’t need to do that now because i know how my sexuality works and i am heterosexual.
But in the case of a homosexual their sexual fantasies was towards men which caused them to be that way. So the opposite can only be called for if they want to change their sexuality towards women. To know they can function towards women they need to have heterosexual fantasies.
Yes you can tell them to embrace chastity like us heterosexuals. but to them they are left in limbo without the ability to change to heterosexual. Unless they SIN of course.
So in a way because its taught it is a Sin to have sexual thoughts or fantasies of a imaginary opposite sex. This is preventing them from changing.

You say you are pretty sure a you can tell yourself without entertaining lusts. That in a way means a heterosexual could wake up one day and tell themself that they are homosexual without entertaining Lusts. Is there any evidence that this has happened to someone. homosexual or heterosexual?

 

[babylonsfalling]

Well when i was very young before i became a christian the only way i knew i was sexually attracted to women was by sexual fantasies with a imaginary woman. Then i knew my sexuality was functioning towards women. I don’t need to do that now because i know how my sexuality works and i am heterosexual.
But in the case of a homosexual their sexual fantasies was towards men which caused them to be that way. <—You’ve got the cart before the horse here. So the opposite can only be called for if they want to change their sexuality towards women. To know they can function towards women they need to have heterosexual fantasies.
Yes you can tell them to embrace chastity like us heterosexuals. but to them they are left in limbo without the ability to change to heterosexual. Unless they SIN of course.
So in a way because its taught it is a Sin to have sexual thoughts or fantasies of a imaginary opposite sex. This is preventing them from changing.

You say you are pretty sure a you can tell yourself without entertaining lusts. That in a way means a heterosexual could wake up one day and tell themself that they are homosexual without entertaining Lusts. Is there any evidence that this has happened to someone. homosexual or heterosexual?

That’s the first time I heard any notion that sexual fantasies MAKE someone homosexual, or heterosexual. The fantasies are a RESULT of the orientation, fantasies do not MAKE or cause orientation.

And who or what PREVENTS a homosexual from changing orientation?

 

[shaky]

I think you’re wrong here. I think the [venial] sin is when we actively encourage those thoughts in our material actions [e.g., having sexual thoughts about a man/woman isn’t really a problem - it’s quite natural… if anything it’s an opportunity to say the Glory Be and thank God for that particular man/woman’s beauty. If you begin looking up her skirt or masturbating over her, then you’re in the territory of sin].

The Catechism describes lust as **disordered desire **for or **inordinate enjoyment **of sexual pleasure. A desire that is inherently disordered would be desire towards certain homosexual activity, and an inordinate enjoyment of sex would be a little more than “oh gosh I wouldn’t mind kissing her!”

Lust as i understand on the Inordinate desire=Inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure.

Inordinate is excessive desire for sexual enjoyment. Like gluttony is too much Food you can eat in a day or a week. Lust is too much sex in a day or week. Even in marriage Lust can be present. There is nothing worst when a woman who naturally can have sex 3 times a week but the man wants it 3 times a day.
So i would not go as far a saying having a kiss is a Inordinate desire.

So what you saying it is only a venial sin when we encourage our sexual thoughts in our material actions. I thought that was mortal sin.

 

[shaky]

That’s the first time I heard any notion that sexual fantasies MAKE someone homosexual, or heterosexual. The fantasies are a RESULT of the orientation, fantasies do not MAKE or cause orientation.

And who or what PREVENTS a homosexual from changing orientation?

In Romans its quite clear that God gave them over to a depraved mind. Now surely this did not happen in infancy that they were born this way. The fact God gave the over to a depraved mind means sexual thoughts with homosexual fantasises caused their homosexuality. Your sexual orientation is caused by the Mind.

If you can’t use your mind to straighten yourself out what can you use. All sin comes from your mind. you don’t just have the Orientation to murder steel commit Adultery etc

Why does it say in scripture bring every thought captive to the obedience of christ. If Just thoughts don’t eventually cause action on these thoughts.

What prevents a homosexual from changing his orientation is not using his Mind.

 

[babylonsfalling]

In Romans its quite clear that God gave them over to a depraved mind.<—Not really. Now surely this did not happen in infancy that they were born this way. The fact God gave the over to a depraved mind means sexual thoughts with homosexual fantasises caused their homosexuality.<–No it doesn’t. Your sexual orientation is caused by the Mind.

If you can’t use your mind to straighten yourself out what can you use. All sin comes from your mind. you don’t just have the Orientation to murder steel commit Adultery etc

Why does it say in scripture bring every thought captive to the obedience of christ. <—Well because that’s what you should do. But that doesn’t mean homosexuality was caused by some fantasy either If Just thoughts don’t eventually cause action on these thoughts.

What prevents a homosexual from changing his orientation is not using his Mind.

Romans is quite clear that God gave them over to a depraved HEART. You seem to be making a big deal of changing it into mind, (with a capital “m”) for some reason.

Christ associates sin with the heart also in Mark 7:21-23.

Some might argue that mind and heart could be similar in an argument like this but the fact remains that the Bible uses heart when it could have used mind, and for some reason you want to change it mind, (with a capital “m” of course) which is kind of silly.

We are not born sexually neutral and then become gay or straight based on which sex fantasy comes to Mind

Most (maybe all) are born straight. I believe it’s feasible that some might be born (somehow) with some gay tendencies. Lots are molested as kids long before they’re even having any sexual fantasies and grow up with a confused perspective on themselves. Lots are bad or nonexistent relationships with their fathers. I believe there are other reasons too, probably more reasons than even the experts know about.

Gay fantasies may exacerbate gay tendencies that already exist. You could also correctly claim that the mind can help resist the temptation toward homosexuality. The mind is involved in sin

But people do not exist as some neutral, orientation-less being waiting for gay or straight fantasy to come along and determine their sexual preference. You giving way to much power to one single product of the mind, that product being fantasies.

Do you have a source on this notion that fantasies make a person be homosexual or did you come up with that notion yourself?

 

[John_oxios]

As Catholics It is SIN for us Single heterosexuals to have sexual thoughts of the Single opposit sex or even look at the single opposit sex sexually.Or even Just Imagine sexual thoughts in general

So if a homosexual or lesbian Comes to Christ and his Church. How can they Possibly Change or Know they have Changed if they cant look at the single opposit sex sexually or even have sexual thoughts of the opposit sex?

Jesus Christ can change our nature, since the fall Adam and Eve, sin, disease, and death entered into the world enter, Jesus came gave us the holy Spirit through God we can change from our fallen nature.

 

[shaky]

Romans is quite clear that God gave them over to a depraved HEART. You seem to be making a big deal of changing it into mind, (with a capital “m”) for some reason.

Christ associates sin with the heart also in Mark 7:21-23.

Some might argue that mind and heart could be similar in an argument like this but the fact remains that the Bible uses heart when it could have used mind, and for some reason you want to change it mind, (with a capital “m” of course) which is kind of silly.

We are not born sexually neutral and then become gay or straight based on which sex fantasy comes to Mind

Most (maybe all) are born straight. I believe it’s feasible that some might be born (somehow) with some gay tendencies. Lots are molested as kids long before they’re even having any sexual fantasies and grow up with a confused perspective on themselves. Lots are bad or nonexistent relationships with their fathers. I believe there are other reasons too, probably more reasons than even the experts know about.

Gay fantasies may exacerbate gay tendencies that already exist. You could also correctly claim that the mind can help resist the temptation toward homosexuality. The mind is involved in sin

But people do not exist as some neutral, orientation-less being waiting for gay or straight fantasy to come along and determine their sexual preference. You giving way to much power to one single product of the mind, that product being fantasies.

Do you have a source on this notion that fantasies make a person be homosexual or did you come up with that notion yourself?

There is more making a person just homosexual. what makes a person want sex with certain animals or a sexual murderer serial killer. Men who are Lesbians that fantasise being a woman having sex with a women. They even go as far as dressing up like a woman and have operations to change the body to look like a women with breasts and a vagina. But they remain lesbian with no sexual tendencies towards men. etc. so what are you saying people are born with these Orientations. I would have thought orientations were produced by the mind.

I don’t know where you get ‘‘HEART’’ from in Romans. Every English translation use the word MIND. Even the Original Greek Manuscripts.

I know Jesus said out of the HEART comes evil thoughts. But surely he is not saying literally your mind and thoughts are in the heart. Because everybody who had a heart transplant would become the person who the heart came from. I believe Jesus was talking more along the lines of the condition of the heart either being HARD or SOFT. Besides the brain controls the heart and that is where your mind and thoughts originate from your brain. Then it depends on the condition of your heart which thoughts you allow to control you.

You can have people with all sorts of sexual disorders come into the church. Some become priests and bishops. Just by training the mind and body to be chaste. For the married this can work. because chastity in marriage involves controlled sexual order of mind and body. But for the singles that means being Non-sexual and this does not seem to cure the problem. They Just remain dysfunctional. Not ‘‘KNOWING’’ they can or have changed. Because by Knowing involves Sin.

 

[shaky]

Jesus Christ can change our nature, since the fall Adam and Eve, sin, disease, and death entered into the world enter, Jesus came gave us the holy Spirit through God we can change from our fallen nature.

Yes i agree Jesus can change our nature. But how can a Single person KNOW Jesus has changed their nature if by KNOWING involves SIN.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Studies have shown a strong link to genetics. For example, in one well known study, for a gay male sibling: 52% of identical twin brothers are gay; 22% of fraternal twin brothers; and 11% of non twin brothers (matching the general population).

That is a rather strong indication that biology plays a significant role.

All of the respected information from “conversion” programs indicate that they are not successful, even when the person wants to change. This practice is condemned by every psychological and psychiatric association which holds an opinion on the subject.

So, objectively speaking, it is accepted that it is not possible to change one’s sexual orientation, if that is the question you are asking.

Any heterosexual might ponder the question… “Now if the things were reversed, would I be able to change my sexual orientation to be attracted to and fall in love with my own gender?” If the answer is yes, then I would suspect that person is bisexual and not heterosexual.

 

[Equites_Christi]

From what I understand, true homosexuals were born with an attraction to the opposite sex.

So, what prevents them from changing their orientation is what keeps me from changing my natural eye color or natural skin color. It’s a part of me, like their orientation is a part of them.

As has been said, one need not be heterosexual to be a Catholic. One needs to be chaste, just like every Catholic right down to the Pope. Unfortunately, today’s world defines gay as not just “homosexually inclined” but “homosexually active” because people just can’t STAND the idea of not being able to do what they want to.

 

[exnihilo]

The question seems to accept the modern notion that people are either homosexual or heterosexual. I dont know that this is true. You have to explain bisexuals and you have to explain the widespread homosexual activity in prison and other situations where men have limited access to women. Also, what would a person who is raised without ever having seen another person be? Would they have any notion of being homosexual or heterosexual?

My opinion about sexuality is that unnatural thoughts lead to unnatural acts. And both lead to thoughts and actions that are more unnatural. Unfortunately it is hard if not impossible to recover your innocence. In my own experience, which I think most others share, I did have a time of innocence as a child. I had no notions of sex at all. At that point in time how could either label heterosexual or homosexual apply?

The objective is to limit all sinful acts and thoughts. A person can know they have changed when they have less sinful acts and thoughts of any kind. I do not believe the goal for homosexuals is precisely to change them but is more accurately described as putting away disordered thoughts and acts.

 

[ringil]

I am a licensed therapist (LCSW)

There is no recognized psychological practice seeking to change an individual’s sexual orientation. No licensing body (Marraige and Family Therapy, Social Work, Psychology, Psychiatry, Counseling, Addictions Counseling) will advocate such pseudo-therapy. Indeed, if a therapist attempts such interventions it would be unethical and the license could be suspended or revoked.

No health insurance will cover therapeutic attempts to change sexual orientation.

Independent research indicates that said efforts are ineffective at best and psychologically traumatic at worst.

Any licensed therapist aware of another praticing “reparative therapy” or any other such interventions would be obliged to report that individual to the appropriate board.

 

[EasterJoy]

You aren’t ever morally required to change what you cannot change. You are only required to do what you can. If you have a psychological disorder by which you have no attraction to the opposite sex, but only to your own, it is accepted that this may be something that just cannot be helped. The Church counsels the faithful to have compassion for that situation and to accept persons who have it as having a trial to cope with.

In the case of a homosexual Catholic, they are expected to avoid the near occasion of sin. They must disavow disordered passions (no matter how these passions torment them, and these can constitute a very great trial) but that doesn’t mean they can magically conjur up normal ones. In that case, they would conduct themselves as do other Catholics who don’t burn with a desire to marry. They remain celibate and are free to devote themselves entirely to the Lord.

It is very important that people who suffer from SSA be fully supported as having a difficult cross to bear. It ought to be made very clear to them that they are very precious to God, and that their service to God in resisting the great temptations He has allowed them to face is pleasing to God. On no account should they be denigrated in any way for having been given a difficult part of our battleline to defend.

 

[John_oxios]

I am a licensed therapist (LCSW)

There is no recognized psychological practice seeking to change an individual’s sexual orientation. No licensing body (Marraige and Family Therapy, Social Work, Psychology, Psychiatry, Counseling, Addictions Counseling) will advocate such pseudo-therapy. Indeed, if a therapist attempts such interventions it would be unethical and the license could be suspended or revoked.

No health insurance will cover therapeutic attempts to change sexual orientation.

Independent research indicates that said efforts are ineffective at best and psychologically traumatic at worst.

Any licensed therapist aware of another praticing “reparative therapy” or any other such interventions would be obliged to report that individual to the appropriate board.

Hi,
therapy is a Protestant solution to a spiritual sickness, psychology helps change the way you behave, psychiatry helps change the way you think but when Christ is not included in the solution, it avails nothing!

Jesus Christ can change our nature anything other than that is unbelief;

God bless,
John

 

[Rock_Happy]

Hi,
therapy is a Protestant solution to a spiritual sickness, psychology helps change the way you behave, psychiatry helps change the way you think but when Christ is not included in the solution, it avails nothing!

Jesus Christ can change our nature anything other than that is unbelief;

God bless,
John

Hmmm… John. Would it be fair to say that you don’t think that there are any Catholic psychotherapists? I thought that this was a lot of what priests do sometimes. If the Church does not believe in psychotherapy, that might provide some insight into why they were unable to effectively deal with the child molestation problem. Many of those guys needed help, which they might not have received. If they had, then innocent kids might have been spared, and the offending priests might have ended up in a better place too.

 

[John_oxios]

Hmmm… John. Would it be fair to say that you don’t think that there are any Catholic psychotherapists? I thought that this was a lot of what priests do sometimes.** If the Church does not believe in psychotherapy,** that might provide some insight into why they were unable to effectively deal with the child molestation problem. Many of those guys needed help, which they might not have received. If they had, then innocent kids might have been spared, and the offending priests might have ended up in a better place too.

Hello Rock Happy,

Read my statement again, and I quote, “**when Christ is not included in the solution, it avails nothing!”
**

Who said the church does not believe in pschotherapy? We invented it! If you see a brother committing sin, go and help him see the error, if he doesn’t listen to you get to others from the community If he doesn’t listen then TAKE IT TO THE CHURCH!

(see Matt 18:15-20) blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=18&t=RSV#20

and then there’s
Jam 5:19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back,
20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Therapists can and do make themselves gods, This country USA is built on Protestant ethics… i.e no confession so people have problems they seek to solve those problems through other people. The Catholic Church through confession is guidance, we tell on ourselves and seek knowledge on how to try to avoid repeating our sins, by prayer and practice… faith is believing God through Christ can Change us.

As far as USA ethics Work hard play hard philosophy:

It is a protestant tradition that he who dies with the most toys is a winner… whereas in the Catholic faith we are to give to the poor and needy when we have more than we need.

Throughout the entire Bible there were good priest and bad priest… they are men… Many men in the sixties became priests to avoid the draft during the Vietnam War… it didn’t make them great priests because the did it for the wrong reasons… and throughout all religions there are bad ministers… but the Catholic Church gets the most bad press! Do you know as late as the early 1900’s Catholic were beaten in the streets of NYC for not reading out of a protestant bible… its how the LaSalle Society came into being.

for every bad Catholic Priest theres 500 good ones.

for every sick catholic priest there’s 1000 other child molesters, it is not a Church problem alone, it is a great problem in society.

Some may have joined the Priesthood to help themselves by isolating themselves from society, however were placed in trusted positions only to fall into temptation.

I can’t speak for the mistakes of the Bishops and their secular decisions in moving known priests with problems, here in the U.S. From what i’ve been told yrs. ago in Ireland these priest would be sent up to the monasteries where they would not be influenced, and and could concentrate on prayer and meditation. In great situations they would be called upon because they knew what it is to fall to great temptation.

the Church has stood since the time of Christ, and nothing not even the gates of hell will make it fail til Christ’s return…

Good priest or bad I am a Roman Catholic, and I believe the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus Christ through his apostles.

Your listed as christian… does that mean Non-Catholic? Is that why we bring up fallen priests? does Baker ring a bell? Swaggert? Benny Hinn? there both still preaching and collecting money, correct? How about openly gay ministers???

God bless,
John