Why is a Homosexual prevented from changing his sexuality to heterosexual?

[John_oxios]

Hey Johnny - You made the claim the the catholic church holds the moral high ground on the subject of materialism. this is true for some sects of protestantism, and untrue for others. that was my point. the dedicated spiritual leader whom you so admire is also very concerned about his prada shoes. … many monks pray and dedicate themselves to spirituality in a variety of way, as much or perhaps more than he does, and they do live a simple life. i respect them more than a man who chooses to have Raphael tapestries in his private apartment, and who worries so much about the shoemaker for his dainty red shoes. I am not saying that Benedict XVI is not brilliant, and he may be spiritual. But he has chosen a very materialistic job. He has also failed miserably when put to the test on the child molestation issue, and also in bringing the church into modernity. It needs a more competent leader right now. Spirituality and fancy shoes are not enough.

King David Life of poverty or grace/gifts given him by God, Solomon richest person ever to live on this Earth,

Back in the day MichaelAngelo, Raphael, Bernini, Sebastian Dayg were more than too happy to be paid for the honor to put their in paintings to be seen/ shared by all the community.

I have myself have a print of one of Sebastian Daygs’ paintings, art can be an inspiration and great to meditate too. Sebastian Daygs’ painting and understanding of the theology of Trinity was 100 ahead of his time.

I stated it before The Art in the Vatican is available for all to see, free!

The shoes??? Prada?? You actually have to read the entire article.

Believe everything you hear??? and you seem to make wearing ‘shoes’ makes him materialistic??does he buy them? Does he brag about them? show them off, praise the manufacturer? scoff at The Price? a!

No that would be materialistic

nd how does he worry about them? that’s fiction!

Rockey, But he has chosen a very materialistic job

He was elected from among he’s peers, [wasn’t his choice] as our spiritual leader just as the replacement for apostles were by the known Church in Acts had (acts 1:20-26) with prayer, and guidance of the Holy Spirit. And was commissioned with the laying on of hands just as Joshua had been Num 27:15 (ff) and Peter and his successors to lead so we would not be sheep without shepherd, just like the Bible says.

Rockey failed also in bringing the church into modernity

What is your expertise in this matter? do you mean Modern or secular? allowing abortion and accepting contraception like some protestant faiths? is that more modern?
or Make us more pleasing to Protestants by becoming more like protestants? … In fact Benedict is returning the Church Liturgy and Mass back to the Tradition of its past. Which is welcomed by many Catholics. The Church doesn’t change for man… Man changes for the Church.

Companies have to hope the pontiff uses a product they have donated to him and then tastefully note the event,
This was relatively easy for Italian shoe company Geox SpA, whose founder, Mario Moretti Polegato, is a friend of papal spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls. (Mr. Navarro-Valls is a member of Geox’s ethics committee.) Following Benedict XVI’s election in April of last year, Geox gave Mr. Navarro-Valls several pairs of Geox Uomo Light loafers – featuring the brand’s trademark antifoot-sweat system --** as a present for the new pope.**

Pope Benedict XVI restored the use of the red papal shoes, which are provided by his personal cobbler in Rome.[1]. In 2008, Pope Benedict XVI also restored the use of the white damask silk Paschal mozzetta, which was previously worn with white silk slippers.

He uses an Ipod!

Apple Computer Inc. declined to comment on the pencil-thin iPod nano that Benedict received as a gift from employees of Vatican Radio on the station’s 75th anniversary.
John Paul rode around in a 1960 mercedes driven by his predecessor til 1981. Even driving around in 21 yr old mercedes is not considered living the high life.

Mercedes-Benz has supplied popes with cars since the 1930s, providing three bubble-backed popemobiles over the years. The German company donated the current popemobile – a heavily armored ML 430 – to the Vatican in 2002, and company spokesman Joerg Zwilling said Benedict XVI has no immediate plans to abandon it.

companies have to hope the pontiff uses a product they have donated to him and then tastefully note the event, or delicately capitalize on a photograph showing the 79-year-old theologian using or wearing a particular brand. Astute marketers say the key words are “tastefully” and “delicately.” Pursuing pope-and-product juxtaposition poses risks. Brands have to be careful not to appear opportunistic or they could risk a backlash with the pope’s followers. "

The Wall Street Journal, page B1, April 25 2006.

Over the past few months, scores of media reports have dubbed Benedict XVI the “Prada Pope,” crediting the Italian fashion house with having made the pope’s eye-catching red loafers.

The senior Vatican official says the loafers were actually made by the pope’s personal cobbler. But Prada has refused to confirm or deny the reports, allowing the press speculation to continue. A spokesman for Prada said the fashion house lacked “the necessary elements” to make an accurate determination.

The Pope is our spiritual leader… and just like the Protestants we support our Church and their leaders…

But we hear about the Pope and his non existent prada shoes. Keep telling a rumor you know not to be true is a false witness against your neighbor.

 

[John_oxios]

Hmmm… I disagree with much of what you say. For example, if we are to emulate the lifestyle of the Pope, then there seems to be an issue about materialism. Have you been to the Vatican? I have seen the place, had a private tour, and even got to see some of the Pope’s private art collection.

I would agree with you that there are some materialistic protestant sects.

If you are going to point a finger at other Christians, consider that a case could be made that the apostolic line was broken when both popes excommunicated each other a few years back. There is no church or Christian sect which has an irrefutable and unrivaled claim to primacy or truth.

Here some more:

    Oliver Wendell Holmes :

U.S. Supreme court Justice, 1902-1932

It is better for all the world, if waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind... Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

Grandfather Abiel Holmes minister of the First Congregational Church,

Parents Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr. Christian Unitarian, congregation affiliated with the Unitarian Universalist Association" that is "unitarian Christian in theology, Anglican in worship, and congregational in governance.

family Quotes:

Holmes sr.
“When a man is satisfied with himself it means that** he has ceased to struggle and therefore has ceased to achieve.** He is dead, and may be allowed the thin delight of reading his own obituary”

Holmes jr
In his briefest “address” in this book, delivered to the nation on the occasion of his 90th birthday in March 1931, He realizes that he has reached the “goal” of his life. Holmes is conscious of the biblical word that the years of are life are threescore and ten, or maybe by reason of strength fourscore, yet he has topped this by adding a decade to fourscore. So, how does he look at his life when he has reached the end?
"The riders in a race to not stop short when they reach the goal. There is a little finishing canter before coming to a standstill."

And then, with words that are still ringing in my ears,
“There is time to hear the kind voice of friends and to say to one’s self: ‘The work is done.’ But just as one says that, the answer comes, ‘The race is over, but the work never is done while the power to work remains’”

God bless,
John

 

[ssa_fellow]

That’s the first time I heard any notion that sexual fantasies MAKE someone homosexual, or heterosexual. The fantasies are a RESULT of the orientation, fantasies do not MAKE or cause orientation.

And who or what PREVENTS a homosexual from changing orientation?

I had my Christian friends (not Catholics, but still) tell me to look at pornography with women in order to become straight. Sorry, it just doesn’t work like that.

And, cmon, what good could come out of pornography. That would be terrible for Christians to say, “by looking at straight pornography, I’m no longer gay, how awesome!!” (what an awesome result of looking at porn!

Sexual fantasies aren’t different from porn, so I’m just going to call them that. They’re both sin, and nothing good comes out of sin.

 

[shaky]

I had my Christian friends (not Catholics, but still) tell me to look at pornography with women in order to become straight. Sorry, it just doesn’t work like that.

And, cmon, what good could come out of pornography. That would be terrible for Christians to say, “by looking at straight pornography, I’m no longer gay, how awesome!!” (what an awesome result of looking at porn!

Sexual fantasies aren’t different from porn, so I’m just going to call them that. They’re both sin, and nothing good comes out of sin.

From early childhood and early teens we learn what sexual Orientation we are through and by our sexual fantasies. What comes first the Orientation or sexual fantasy?
What causes the one or the other is debatable.
Question> What causes the orientation serial sexual murderer?
Was it a sexual fantasy about sexual murder that caused the orientation for sexual murder?
Or was it the that the person was born with the Orientation for sexual murder that caused the sexual fantasy for sexual murder?
Now we can look at this with every other sexual disorder orientation a person has!!
Its seems the general consensus is that every person that has ANY sexual disorder Orientation CANNOT change!!
There is one only type of change that is on offer> By becoming NON SEXUAL for the rest of their lives while on this earth, which is the life that Angels have in Heaven.

It seems from early childhood to teens men and women have to ‘‘SIN’’ by sexual fantasy to find out which Orientation they are even if they are heterosexual!!

Also if by some miracle God changed a SSA person to a heterosexual person that person still needs to SIN by having to KNOW by having a heterosexual fantasy!!

 

[francisca]

From early childhood and early teens we learn what sexual Orientation we are through and by our sexual fantasies. What comes first the Orientation or sexual fantasy?

You ask this question as if those are two solid objects, so “which one comes first ?”

Human sexuality consists of interwined processes such as

bio processes such as hormones, nerve, genes, general health.
logical and associative thinking processes such as decission making, imagination, feelings, mood
personal ideology such as whats right what’s OK, what’s tolerable what’s not, priority list of what’s important and what to omit.
religious/ moral attitude such as ability to say yes/ no or even to agree/ disagree regarding choices of morality, the filter one use to filter information, etc.
social and enviromnental influence such as sexual media exposure, parental guidance/ support, friends, information, access to good/ bad information.
self image, such as how one sees himself/ herself, how one intepret others intepretation of himself/ herself (see self-image through other’s spectacles), reality of other’s attitude toward the person, reality of own attitude towads others and self.
and spiritual reasons such as spiritual conflict, spiritual oppression.

What causes the one or the other is debatable.
Question> What causes the orientation serial sexual murderer?
Was it a sexual fantasy about sexual murder that caused the orientation for sexual murder?
Or was it the that the person was born with the Orientation for sexual murder that caused the sexual fantasy for sexual murder?

I hope somebody who is a licenced psychologist can answer this one.

Rigil, what’s the relation between one’s fantasy and his sexual behavior? Is it ethical to counsel one whose fantasy causes him to commit immoral behavior?

Now we can look at this with every other sexual disorder orientation a person has!!
Its seems the general consensus is that every person that has ANY sexual disorder Orientation CANNOT change!!
There is one only type of change that is on offer> By becoming NON SEXUAL for the rest of their lives while on this earth, which is the life that Angels have in Heaven.

All people are called to holiness. Heterosexual people who indulge in sexual entertaintment, fornication, are as guilty (sinful) as homosexual behavior.

You may think it is impossible to become holy because of the media constantly serve sex content. So turn all blind eyes and all deaf ears on those, and you will find your true-self one day. I’m not saying you can’t watch television/ movies, you just have to choose. And if it happens that you choose the bad ones, do not buy the idea, instead, just forget those ugly things they serve you like throwing away garbage. If you hear a cynical joke, you laugh the laugh but you don’t become a cynic just because you hear it. Similar to this, do not buy sexual ideas from the media (You don’t believe it just because the media/ movies constantly say “this is what people do”, because those scene and idea about sex in the media are wrong).

People nowadays are disconnected off of themeselves, they does not even know what they want, what’s good/ bad for them, whether they have fallen in love or just in between sex urges because of over-sexed mindedness, cynical world they live in, immorality surrounding and pressing their believe in goodness.

It seems from early childhood to teens men and women have to ‘‘SIN’’ by sexual fantasy to find out which Orientation they are even if they are heterosexual!!

There is no “sexual orientation” to find out. Is there any biology book says “sperms look for other sperms” or it says “sperms look for an egg” ? Which one is correct?

Our sex is a reality.

People use fantasy to over-sex themselves. They use fantasy because they’re impatient. Sex needs patientce for it to grow into mature state where couple become familiar with each other, trusting and enjoy each other.

Sex as reality is tied tightly with LOVE. If you can’t love the person, you don’t have sex with her/ him. All people supposedly called to this kind of attitude.

Believe me, you need no fantasy when the person you love is in front of you.
If you are not in the mood you do not need to pretend you are. Sex is honesty.
Some people are condemned by stereotype “sex frequency”, because some information tells them about “normal frequency”. The media love these kinds of things. They are lies.

We find out our true sex when we love somebody and learning to love each other patiently. We do not need to pretend we are in the mood when we are not, so as to use fantasy instead of focusing on our spouse. In fact, if you focus on other things than your spouse, you will not understand what she needs in order to please you truly. In the end both parties doing it separately in their own fantasy. If the wife is “not moved” it will not be the same as if she were. Thus fantasy-- in fact-- dissapoint, eventhough some poeple doesn’t know the difference because they have naver experienced the true fulfilling sex in their lives despite long marriage and many fantasy indulgent sex. Fantasy sex has robbed us much more than we know.

Also if by some miracle God changed a SSA person to a heterosexual person that person still needs to SIN by having to KNOW by having a heterosexual fantasy!!

Fantasy is not needed for a good sex. Love is. When you have it (love), you will know. You do not have it, then don’t.

 

[Rock_Happy]

King David Life of poverty or grace/gifts given him by God, Solomon richest person ever to live on this Earth,

Back in the day MichaelAngelo, Raphael, Bernini, Sebastian Dayg were more than too happy to be paid for the honor to put their in paintings to be seen/ shared by all the community.

I have myself have a print of one of Sebastian Daygs’ paintings, art can be an inspiration and great to meditate too. Sebastian Daygs’ painting and understanding of the theology of Trinity was 100 ahead of his time.

I stated it before The Art in the Vatican is available for all to see, free!

The shoes??? Prada?? You actually have to read the entire article.

Believe everything you hear??? and you seem to make wearing ‘shoes’ makes him materialistic??does he buy them? Does he brag about them? show them off, praise the manufacturer? scoff at The Price? a!

No that would be materialistic

nd how does he worry about them? that’s fiction!

He was elected from among he’s peers, [wasn’t his choice] as our spiritual leader just as the replacement for apostles were by the known Church in Acts had (acts 1:20-26) with prayer, and guidance of the Holy Spirit. And was commissioned with the laying on of hands just as Joshua had been Num 27:15 (ff) and Peter and his successors to lead so we would not be sheep without shepherd, just like the Bible says.

What is your expertise in this matter? do you mean Modern or secular? allowing abortion and accepting contraception like some protestant faiths? is that more modern?
or Make us more pleasing to Protestants by becoming more like protestants? … In fact Benedict is returning the Church Liturgy and Mass back to the Tradition of its past. Which is welcomed by many Catholics. The Church doesn’t change for man… Man changes for the Church.

Companies have to hope the pontiff uses a product they have donated to him and then tastefully note the event,
This was relatively easy for Italian shoe company Geox SpA, whose founder, Mario Moretti Polegato, is a friend of papal spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls. (Mr. Navarro-Valls is a member of Geox’s ethics committee.) Following Benedict XVI’s election in April of last year, Geox gave Mr. Navarro-Valls several pairs of Geox Uomo Light loafers – featuring the brand’s trademark antifoot-sweat system --** as a present for the new pope.**

Pope Benedict XVI restored the use of the red papal shoes, which are provided by his personal cobbler in Rome.[1]. In 2008, Pope Benedict XVI also restored the use of the white damask silk Paschal mozzetta, which was previously worn with white silk slippers.

He uses an Ipod!

Apple Computer Inc. declined to comment on the pencil-thin iPod nano that Benedict received as a gift from employees of Vatican Radio on the station’s 75th anniversary.
John Paul rode around in a 1960 mercedes driven by his predecessor til 1981. Even driving around in 21 yr old mercedes is not considered living the high life.

Mercedes-Benz has supplied popes with cars since the 1930s, providing three bubble-backed popemobiles over the years. The German company donated the current popemobile – a heavily armored ML 430 – to the Vatican in 2002, and company spokesman Joerg Zwilling said Benedict XVI has no immediate plans to abandon it.

companies have to hope the pontiff uses a product they have donated to him and then tastefully note the event, or delicately capitalize on a photograph showing the 79-year-old theologian using or wearing a particular brand. Astute marketers say the key words are “tastefully” and “delicately.” Pursuing pope-and-product juxtaposition poses risks. Brands have to be careful not to appear opportunistic or they could risk a backlash with the pope’s followers. "

The Wall Street Journal, page B1, April 25 2006.

Over the past few months, scores of media reports have dubbed Benedict XVI the “Prada Pope,” crediting the Italian fashion house with having made the pope’s eye-catching red loafers.

The senior Vatican official says the loafers were actually made by the pope’s personal cobbler. But Prada has refused to confirm or deny the reports, allowing the press speculation to continue. A spokesman for Prada said the fashion house lacked “the necessary elements” to make an accurate determination.

The Pope is our spiritual leader… and just like the Protestants we support our Church and their leaders…

But we hear about the Pope and his non existent prada shoes. Keep telling a rumor you know not to be true is a false witness against your neighbor.

Looks like I hit a nerve, so to speak. There is no justification for his lifestyle or the existence of the wealth of the Vatican. It simply can’t be reconciled with Christian doctrine. But that is just my opinion.

Back to the OP. You simply can’t change someone’s sexual orientation. This is known and accepted in the behavioral sciences. Maybe some new techniques will emerge, but I my opinion is that is unlikely. The Church will be forced to change its position. Responsible theologians and biblical scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today. The problem of biblical translation is rarely mentioned in this forum.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Looks like I hit a nerve, so to speak. There is no justification for his lifestyle or the existence of the wealth of the Vatican. It simply can’t be reconciled with Christian doctrine. But that is just my opinion.

Back to the OP. You simply can’t change someone’s sexual orientation. This is known and accepted in the behavioral sciences. Maybe some new techniques will emerge, but I my opinion is that is unlikely. The Church will be forced to change its position. Responsible theologians and biblical scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today. The problem of biblical translation is rarely mentioned in this forum.

The rebuttal of John oxios is solid. On the contraty, to those who are familiar with your record of posts in this forum, many posts appear to be opinion (you even admit your statement above is opinion), reflecting disdain and contempt of the Pope and unchanged and unchanging Catholic position on homosexual behavior.

Perhaps your antipathy for the Vicar of Christ on earth and certain Catholic values may escape the notice of the moderators in CAF. But it is obvious to those who engage in and/or read threads such as this one where you participate. The jab at the Pope’s red shoes (which you described as “dainty”) is telling. It would seem that an honest critique of his body of work in the last thirty years, or of a book or two from an estimated 40 books he wrote, would gather more respect in this forum.

The behavioral sciences (psychology and psychiatry) on which you put too much crediblity has been politicized and have dictated pro-gay rules to its practioners following the takeover of the gay psychitrist bloc back in and since 1973.

As related to the OP, it is not reasonable that homosexuals who seek change should only listen to the now very vocal naysayers. Sincere seekers should not be prevented from leaving a life of homosexual behavior and to re-order their sexual orientation in accord with not only biblical teachings but also with natural law. If a wedded life to a member of the opposite sex is not possible, sexual abstinence or celibacy is not a death sentence and does not translate to no happiness at all in one’s life. This belittles the lives of those who with or without choice have no sex life.

To anyone who may be reading this post and who may not know, there are therapists (Catholic and other faiths) who hold the view that prayer and spiritual healing are not disassociated with therapy geared towards an ordered sexual life. There is more to the secular aspiration and preoccupation on the entitlement, in this day and age, to a sexual life whereby the criteria stops at personal safety and satisfaction. All of us, heterosexuals and homosexuals, are all called to honor our bodies, which are temples of the Holy Spirit.

Finally, your reference to “responsible” biblical scholars and theologicans who wish to propagate a revisionist reading of biblical teachings on homosexuality is also opinion and based on no other than unrelenting pro-gay activism and self-serving propaganda.

Before you throw on this site the abuse by the Catholic clergy again, as you are wont to do in debate at CAF, please do not mistake that faithful Catholics minimize or defend said sins. Faithful Catholics defend the teaching of welcoming back and embracing the repentant sinner.
,

 

[Elizabeth502]

The Church will be forced to change its position.

Yeah, I’m sure they’re quaking in their boots over there in Rome, anticipating being forced to change a position. (Not.)

-]Responsible theologians/-] theologians with an agenda and biblical -]scholars/-] pseudo-scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today.

*all editing mine *]

 

[michelleds]

You simply can’t change someone’s sexual orientation. This is known and accepted in the behavioral sciences. Maybe some new techniques will emerge, but I my opinion is that is unlikely. The Church will be forced to change its position. Responsible theologians and biblical scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today. The problem of biblical translation is rarely mentioned in this forum.

I personally do not order my life according the behavioral sciences. apparently you do. I choose something a little older and even more widely accepted–God’s commands and teachings.

In the last 8 months, it has never ceased to amaze me how many people on CAF will argue AGAINST God. I mean, seriously, are people hoping for some sort of “underdog exception”?

 

[John_oxios]

Looks like I hit a nerve, so to speak. There is no justification for his lifestyle or the existence of the wealth of the Vatican. It simply can’t be reconciled with Christian doctrine. But that is just my opinion.

Back to the OP. You simply can’t change someone’s sexual orientation. This is known and accepted in the behavioral sciences. Maybe some new techniques will emerge, but I my opinion is that is unlikely.** The Church will be forced to change its position.** Responsible theologians and biblical scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today. The problem of biblical translation is rarely mentioned in this forum.

hi R-Happy,
Hit a nerve??? What you stated about the Pope wearing Prada shoes was a false-statement, your dart fell before it hit its intended target. You can’t even apologize for passing on a false rumor, what kind of christian behavior is that? You lie, and back it up with ‘expert’ opinion.

an anti - catholic prod! Which can’t stick becAUSE ITS NOT TRUE… Look at any Christian ministry, T.V. Evangelical, etc… etc… Jim baker had a 10,000 dog house while collecting money he said was going to the poor. Credo Dollar rides around in a rolls royce paid for by donations to his ministry.

The vatican has accumulated its wealth by being around for two thousand yrs. and has been employing artists like Michelangelo during its time. You like most protestants are biased against the Pope. Everybody has an opinion, but when its slanted it is of no value.

The Church doesn’t change for man, man changes for the Church in obedience to Christ, The Holy Spirit and almighty God the Father.

As far as the Church goes next you’ll want to change scripture:

Lev 20:13 **If a man lies with a male **as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

Strongs
Lie (H79011) to lie down
a) (Qal)

1. to lie, lie down, lie on
2. to lodge
3. to lie (of sexual relations)
4. to lie down (in death)
5. to rest, relax (fig)
   b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)
   c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)
   d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down
   e) (Hophal) to be laid

Strong's lexcon Seems pretty solid in the  translation.

its qualifications:

Constructed under the direction of Dr. James Strong (1822–1894) and first published in 1890. Dr. Strong was Professor of exegetical theology at Drew Theological Seminary at the time. It is an exhaustive cross-reference of every word in the KJV back to the word in the original text… James Strong did not construct Strong’s Concordance by himself; it was constructed with the effort of more than a hundred colleagues. It has become the most widely used concordance for the King James Bible./QUOTE]

Pro 3:32 for the perverse man is an abomination to the LORD, but the upright are in his confidence.

Deu 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

Your base your opinion on what you know… and you haven’t done your homework.

Name your responsible theologians, name your references, there must be forty translations published right now that agrre with these translations above (RSV), here’s 17 others:
blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Lev&c=20&t=RSV#vrsn/13

And they have stood by the test of time and faith, for over two thousand years, Moses wrote them by 1250 b.c. the Hebrew Scriptures are wrong? the Septuagint is wrong?
Luther’s Bible wrong the KJV is wrong?

show me your experts on Church & Scripture, because all I’ve read read from you thus far is gossip, and your opinion. Which is like straw (negligible value of one such stalk; trifle; sham; fictitious, Chaff, worthless)
There wil always be the church of the ‘burger King’ for those who want it there way, he will use excuses, instead of looking within for their own faults.

It is easier to lash out, then take blame for our own faults.

God bless,
John

 

[EasterJoy]

Looks like I hit a nerve, so to speak. There is no justification for his lifestyle or the existence of the wealth of the Vatican. It simply can’t be reconciled with Christian doctrine. But that is just my opinion.

Back to the OP. You simply can’t change someone’s sexual orientation. This is known and accepted in the behavioral sciences. Maybe some new techniques will emerge, but I my opinion is that is unlikely. The Church will be forced to change its position. Responsible theologians and biblical scholars question the translations of the Bible which condemn homosexual behavior as we understand it today. The problem of biblical translation is rarely mentioned in this forum.

You can’t change a durable sexual orientation. You can be confused about what your orientation is.

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/09/a-great-newspaper-op-ed-by-a-priest-on-same-sex-attraction/
An exerpt:
"…As a confessor and confidant to many men and women who have homosexual attractions, I can say that people are not limited to the choices Bates offers.

The plain truth is that people with same-sex attractions experience them differently.

For some, those desires are deeply rooted and long-lasting, while others experience them as symptoms of something else: loneliness, lack of confidence or frustrated childhood bonding with same-sex parents or peers, just to begin the list.

In other words, some people really do find developmental and environmental roots to their same-sex attractions. And yes, some find release from them through therapy or through the mysterious grace of a spiritual awakening.

Bates was not able to pray away his same-sex attraction, but some people actually do. And others, while unable to avoid homosexual temptations, still live lives of chastity and virtue by the grace of God and with the help of good friends…"

 

[Rock_Happy]

I personally do not order my life according the behavioral sciences. apparently you do. I choose something a little older and even more widely accepted–God’s commands and teachings.

In the last 8 months, it has never ceased to amaze me how many people on CAF will argue AGAINST God. I mean, seriously, are people hoping for some sort of “underdog exception”?

Yet, you probably use electricity? Funny, huh? Pick and choose science according to preference. If I knew you better, I suspect that we could find the findings of behavioral science which you agree with, and those which you disagree with. Yet the sources would be equally valid. The difference would be your personal opinion.

Taking it the next step… it was completely obvious and logical in 1950 that the races were not meant to intermingle. This was fact and really quite obvious to many white people.

 

[Rock_Happy]

hi R-Happy,
Hit a nerve??? What you stated about the Pope wearing Prada shoes was a false-statement, your dart fell before it hit its intended target. You can’t even apologize for passing on a false rumor, what kind of christian behavior is that? You lie, and back it up with ‘expert’ opinion.

an anti - catholic prod! Which can’t stick becAUSE ITS NOT TRUE… Look at any Christian ministry, T.V. Evangelical, etc… etc… Jim baker had a 10,000 dog house while collecting money he said was going to the poor. Credo Dollar rides around in a rolls royce paid for by donations to his ministry.

The vatican has accumulated its wealth by being around for two thousand yrs. and has been employing artists like Michelangelo during its time. You like most protestants are biased against the Pope. Everybody has an opinion, but when its slanted it is of no value.

The Church doesn’t change for man, man changes for the Church in obedience to Christ, The Holy Spirit and almighty God the Father.

As far as the Church goes next you’ll want to change scripture:

Lev 20:13 **If a man lies with a male **as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

Strongs
Lie (H79011) to lie down
a) (Qal)

1. to lie, lie down, lie on
2. to lodge
3. to lie (of sexual relations)
4. to lie down (in death)
5. to rest, relax (fig)
   b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)
   c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)
   d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down
   e) (Hophal) to be laid

 

[francisca]

The plain truth is that people with same-sex attractions experience them differently.

For some, those desires are deeply rooted and long-lasting, while others experience them as symptoms of something else: loneliness, lack of confidence or frustrated childhood bonding with same-sex parents or peers, just to begin the list.

All people who experience problems with their personality, experience them differently compare to others who doesn’t experience them. This is not exclusive case for only homosexuality. Problems come in different intensity for all people. The same thing with temptations, some temptations are easier for some, but great problems for others. This is not special case only for homosexual people. ALL people experience this. Some people who are in really really serious problems they have to deal with them with great difficulty, simply because to say “it’s alright to dwell in it” is not an option.

In other words, some people really do find developmental and environmental roots to their same-sex attractions. And yes, some find release from them through therapy or through the mysterious grace of a spiritual awakening.

Bates was not able to pray away his same-sex attraction, but some people actually do. And others, while unable to avoid homosexual temptations, still live lives of chastity and virtue by the grace of God and with the help of good friends…"

It’s too easy to say “I prayed, it didn’t work”. Pray and pray again then.

Most important is whether one is really truly seeking the truth.

James 1:
5 If any of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God who gives to all easily and unconditionally.
6 But ask with faith, not doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave driven and tossed on the sea by the wind.
7 Such a person should not expect anything from the Lord.

and moreover,

James 1:
13 No one, when tempted, should say “This temptation comes from God”. God is not tempted and he can never tempt anyone.
14 Instead, each of us is lured and enticed by our own evil desire.
15 Once this desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when fully grown, gives birth to death.

So…

James 1:
21 So get rid of any filth and reject the prevailing evil, and welcome the Word which has been planted in you and has the power to save you.

 

[John_oxios]

Every opinion is slanted. How absurd your argument is.

I guess where we fundamentally differ is that you prefer empirical knowledge, and I tend to the evidential. Simple as that.

Hi R-Happy

You say the RCC needs to modernize get with the rest of the world?

Scripture says: Matt 16:26 "For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life? Or what shall a man give in return for his life?

Mat 18:7 "Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes!

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.

Cr 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.

2Cr 10:3 For though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war,

2Cr 10:4 for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

2Cr 10:5 We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and** take every thought captive to obey Christ**,

Opinion based on biases is no opinion at all just contempt. you spread falsehood and defend it?

Scripture says: Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

Absurd argument? the only absurd statements are coming directly from you!

You stated "the Church needs to Change’ and that translations of Scripture concerning Lev 20:13, have wrongly been translated to Greek latin and English from the Hebrew have been wrong for something like 2300 yrs. Yet you only state your opinion, frankly, that’s absurd of you.

You call yourself christian yet, you do not believe scripture because you say it’s outdated, out of mode. Evidential? compared to what? You haven’t presented one fact, one reference? just an uninformed biased opinion and that’s no evidence at all.

What is your guide?

John Oxios