J
jas84173
Guest
Don’t get me wrong it’s a beautiful hymn, however it was written by Martin Luther and at the time was basically the song of the Protestant reformation. So at what point did it become okay to be in our hymnals?
- Status
O
Operalan
Guest
There is nothing theologically or “unCatholic” in the hymn. It’s actually a very strong statement of faith. We should embrace that.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Funny. My previous pastor tore it out of the hymns once.
J
jas84173
Guest
That’s true. I just was surprised because I always had the assumption that even so it would be rejected by the Catholic church because of circumstances surrounding it and the aftermath which was the greatest split besides the east west schism between the Catholic church and Orthodox churches in 1054. Ironically I read an article and I will try to find it of a Catholic arguing that St. Francis of Assisis “Canticle of the Sun” is blasphemous because he refers to brother sun and sister moon and basically "puts unliving and non human creatures of the earth on the same scale as humanity and thus is a truly “pagan” hymn. I disagree but I do understand where someone could take that from the song. Some people look into things to literally.
G
GEddie
Guest
There is nothing wrong with non-Catholic hymns provided they jive with Church theology.
Should we also ditch “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” or (gasp) “Amazing Grace” because these hymns have Protestant origins?
ICXC NIKA
Should we also ditch “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” or (gasp) “Amazing Grace” because these hymns have Protestant origins?
ICXC NIKA
M
maltmom
Guest
I have a friend in seminary. If I were a betting woman I’d bet that “Amazing Grace” will never be sung at any Mass he’s serving.
As a convert I was surprised to sing “A Mighty Fortress is our God” at Mass. It’s a beautiful hymn.
R
RPRPsych
Guest
Leaving aside the hymn’s Lutheran origins, it is based on Psalm 46 (Vulgate 45). Surely, there is nothing wrong with that. 
R
RPRPsych
Guest
Temper, temper…
P
ProVobis
Guest
It’s got a nice tune (setting).
Maybe if you don’t like the lyrics someone can rewrite them?
As long as it doesn’t violate copyrights.
Maybe if you don’t like the lyrics someone can rewrite them?
As long as it doesn’t violate copyrights.
H
heidi_storage
Guest
Yeah, I was surprised to hear the hymn at my university’s Mass. It is a much lovelier hymn than some of the other junk they sang. I remember with especial distaste one silly song that began with people chanting “Freedom! Freedom!”
L
LethalMouse
Guest
If the church hated on something true and accurate because of who said it how much would said church seem to be the legacy of Jesus?
M
Mintaka
Guest
The usual Catholic objection to “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” was not so much that Luther wrote it, as that it was used as a battle and slaughter song by the Peasant Revolt that Luther instigated (albeit not on purpose), and by several of the Protestant warring factions in the brutal wars afterward.
So baaaasically, we’re talking about singing Nazi songs in a synagogue, or at least, singing “Marching to Georgia” as a US patriotic song… in Georgia. (Except that Sherman’s troops didn’t do hardly anything objectionable, compared to the Peasant Revolt guys and the European wars doing horrible stuff to Catholics and other Protestants.)
Of course, the traditional objection by Catholic church musicians is that one of the verses actually ends by saying that the devil has no equal on Earth, making the song a hymn to Satan unless you go on and sing the next verse after it. (And yes, the next verse is about Satan’s butt being kicked; but the Satanist version happens fairly often in churches where the music director isn’t observant enough.)
Some people have associated the song’s praise of Satan with the historical bad stuff done by its historical singers, which is at least worth considering. (And with all the good stuff that gets cut out of modern Catholic hymnals, I don’t see why they didn’t cut the controversial Satan verse too!)
And no, they don’t ever teach us this kind of useful stuff in history classes… which is why our contemporary Catholic generation doesn’t realize there’s anything objectionable about the song except Luther’s name on the lyrics.
So baaaasically, we’re talking about singing Nazi songs in a synagogue, or at least, singing “Marching to Georgia” as a US patriotic song… in Georgia. (Except that Sherman’s troops didn’t do hardly anything objectionable, compared to the Peasant Revolt guys and the European wars doing horrible stuff to Catholics and other Protestants.)
Of course, the traditional objection by Catholic church musicians is that one of the verses actually ends by saying that the devil has no equal on Earth, making the song a hymn to Satan unless you go on and sing the next verse after it. (And yes, the next verse is about Satan’s butt being kicked; but the Satanist version happens fairly often in churches where the music director isn’t observant enough.)
Some people have associated the song’s praise of Satan with the historical bad stuff done by its historical singers, which is at least worth considering. (And with all the good stuff that gets cut out of modern Catholic hymnals, I don’t see why they didn’t cut the controversial Satan verse too!)
And no, they don’t ever teach us this kind of useful stuff in history classes… which is why our contemporary Catholic generation doesn’t realize there’s anything objectionable about the song except Luther’s name on the lyrics.
W
WillyAL
Guest
As one who grew up in the Lutheran Church, I was very surprised when “A Mighty Fortress is Our God” was on the list of hymns for Mass one Sunday. It was only that one time, and it was several years ago, but I remember thinking to myself, “Hey, they changed some of the words.”It’s got a nice tune (setting).
Maybe if you don’t like the lyrics someone can rewrite them?
R
RPRPsych
Guest
I appreciate the points you’re trying to make, but:
- the conflation of the Peasants’ Revolt with Nazism and the Civil War is simply inflammatory rhetoric.
- Are these the correct lyrics of the song? hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh110.sht
Martin Luther certainly had monstrous flaws (“On The Jews and Their Lies”), but our hands are hardly clean either; to this day, you can find certain Catholics blaming the Jews for everything down to rapes in India, or disrupting Kristallnacht memorials and shouting “Christ killer”.
Should we stop singing “Amazing Grace” because its writer used to be a slave trader? 
P
pianistclare
Guest
I loathe Amazing Grace. I’ve left instructions that they NOT play or sing it at my funeral.
BLECH.
The words are all wrong.
R
RPRPsych
Guest
Can’t stand that song theologically. It’s pure Calvinism dressed in nice clothes.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Yup.Can’t stand that song theologically. It’s pure Calvinism dressed in nice clothes.
But Catholics around here LOVE IT/
They request it at every.single.funeral.
WE even sing a version “My chains are gone”…which is abysmal.
H
Hatikvah
Guest
Maybe they should’ve named it “Irresistible Grace”? :ehh:Can’t stand that song theologically. It’s pure Calvinism dressed in nice clothes.
R
RPRPsych
Guest
And “Total Depravity”.
And don’t get me started on “Amazing Love”, which is a tract for Arminians. “An interest in the Saviour’s blood”, blech. Jesus is not a stock portfolio.
T
The_Serpent
Guest
“On earth is not his equal” ; could be interpreted as a rejection of the Pope, or the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Both were not popular with Luther and the reformers.
- Status