Why Is Catholicism Threatened to Your Claim of Being the True Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter thecourt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
[SIGN][/SIGN]
thecourt said:
rinnie Joseph Smith was the instrument to restore the true Church of Christ in light of how the other churches draw near me yet whose hearts are far from me, [SIGN]they teach for doctrines the commandments of m[/SIGN]en ( I quoted part of the revelation from the Lord received by Joseph Smith.)

Bottom line, for me, no “seeds” trying to bring me back to the so called true church, Catholicism, here are not going to cause me to lose my conviction of the truth.
Click to expand...
Excuse me, Are you saying that the Oral Teachings of the Apostles and SS is teachings of men? Then you are saying that the bible is not the true word of God, is that what you are saying?

I would like you to show me one teaching of the RCC that was not a teaching by the power of the HS. When did the Pope ever claim that he was an instrument to restore the Church that was started by Jesus Christ. He never did nor never will. He promised that he would preserve those teachings. Like Jesus asked of his Apostles.

So are you saying point blank that the Church failed and Jesus lied? Are you saying that the gates of hell prevailed? Yes or No
 
thecourt, I’m not trying to convert you. Only God can do that. I’m trying to get you to see that whatever it is you think the Catholic church is, you are wrong. You don’t have to come back, you just have to see the truth about the church, flawed members and all.

The only thing I want from a non-Catholic is to have them see why we believe what we do. I’m not looking for conversion, I’m looking for understanding. But I can’t do that with someone who doesn’t even have the beliefs straight. That’s why I’m so frustrated with you. You claim so many things about us yet you’re wrong about them. I don’t know if you learned them from other Mormons or you just neglected your faith when you were catholic.

Actually I don’t blame you if you converted because of what you thought the Catholic church was…because it wasn’t what you thought it was. If I thought that the church had error in it I wouldn’t be Catholic either. But I don’t believe it has error in it. I believe that Jesus left the Church with the Holy Spirit and therefore it cannot err. The people in it; popes, priests, and the rest of us, can err. But the Church in her teaching capacity through doctrine/dogma cannot.

If you understand that of Catholics, you will have a better understanding of how to speak with them. Accusing the church of error without really knowing what the Church teaches is not going to make a dent in our beliefs.

Now, on the other hand, if you have a very weak minded Catholic who never really learned Church teachings to begin with, you will certainly have a potential convert on your hands. But I don’t think you’ll find an abundance of them here on the Catholic Answers Forums. So if you want to press your arguments, I would say you have a better chance somewhere else. Unless, of course, you became more familiar with Catholic teaching and brushed up on it to give us better arguments than you have presented thus far.

Remember, you were the one who came here. We didn’t knock on your door and start showing you what your error was. Accusing us of error and then somehow trying to say we are trying to convert you… we have done no such thing. All we have done is try to defend ourselves from a weak attack. I have to give you an A+ on persistence though. You are definitely persistent in getting Catholic teaching wrong.
 
And why does his teaching’s differ from the ones taught by the Apostles.

2 tim 3:14 You must keep to what you have been taught and know to be true remember who your teachers WERE and how ever since you were a child ou have known the holy scriptures from these you can learn wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Did you get that last part Christ Jesus not JS. I do not have faith in JS he was not a true teacher Tim was talking about. He was not even alive then. The word of Christ says to keep with the teachings and Church unil Jesus Christ comes again in glory,
 
thecourt said:
Catholicism professes that it is the true church of Jesus Christ and among a number of reasons for me leaving Catholicism, I found that it lacked characteristics that would show it is not the true church.

The Protestant reformers did what they particularly to me as evidence that it is not the true church. Catholicism I suppose felt how dare anyone would question its claim. Their efforts showed that Catholicism had flaws.

My church’s profession of the apostasy and the need for the church being restored certainly does not make things any better.

Why Catholics are you threatened? Are you willing to see your flaws in light of the Protestants and the LDS Church?
Click to expand...
We’re not. Next question please.
 
Jharek,
He may have attended a Methodist Sunday School, but that did not make him a member of the Methodist church. He did show an interest in the Methodist teachings, and I suppose may have attended to discuss those teachings with someone more knowledgeable about the subject than himself. He was a student of the Bible, and was engaged in a learning process–not a one-time learning event. In 1829, he received the keys and authority to be the instrument for the restoration of the true Biblical gospel and the true church, but not until then.

God doesn’t forbid attending a church of another faith. Why would God be so small-minded as that?
 
Snerticus said:
thecourt, I’m not trying to convert you. Only God can do that. I’m trying to get you to see that whatever it is you think the Catholic church is, you are wrong. You don’t have to come back, you just have to see the truth about the church, flawed members and all.

The only thing I want from a non-Catholic is to have them see why we believe what we do. I’m not looking for conversion, I’m looking for understanding. But I can’t do that with someone who doesn’t even have the beliefs straight. That’s why I’m so frustrated with you. You claim so many things about us yet you’re wrong about them. I don’t know if you learned them from other Mormons or you just neglected your faith when you were catholic.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. I know we can never convince Mormons to become Catholics, only the Holy Spirit can do that. But I want Mormons to understand what we believe, instead of the lies their leaders tell them about us. I also want Mormons to ‘fess up about what their church really teaches (not the posters’ personal beliefs - which are often very different from what the LDS church teaches). Then we can discuss.

Anyone can check the Catechism to know what is official Catholic doctrine. Unfortunately there is no such source for LDS beliefs - they even deny what is in their own Sunday School manuals.

We can only have meaningful discussion about what each religion really believes and teaches, and that is only possible if the LDS are honest.
 
thecourt said:
Karen1960 claims a ancient prophet is a liar. You Catholics who supposely brought the Bible to the world yet you do not know what is in it.

Isaiah 24:5 — The earth also is defied under the inhabitants thereof, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

So is Isaiah lying or what will your spin of the actual interpretation of the scripture?
Click to expand...
Well, you’ve called Jesus a liar, so what is your point? It appears it is you that is not familiar with scripture. Try reading Matthew 16:18.

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church, so you are calling Jesus a liar.

Try reading Matthew 7:15, and the warning of false prophets coming in sheep’s clothing.

It is OK for you to read these, they come from the Bible, unless you consider the Bible anti-mormon. I notice you very rarely, if ever quote scripture, so I’m not sure you are familiar with scripture at all.

Do you even read the bizarre stuff you post? Do you even read, or understand the responses you’ve received.

Your own church members (Diana in particular) have corrected you on at least one issue.

It is obvious you have your own “idea” of what the Catholic Church is. It is also obvious you have your own “idea” of what you think the mormon church is.

It is also extremely obvious that you don’t understand what either one of them is. Catholics are providing you information, and trying to correct your misinformation, and you have your mormon brethren correcting your misinformation about the mormon church.

You have been corrected on several issues, and yet you refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong.
  1. Diania explained to you that Joseph Smith did ordain a black man. Elijah Abel I believe, but you refuse to acknowledge you were wrong.
  2. You stated that no Catholic Church had Jesus in its name. I gave you several examples, but you refuse to acknowledge you were wrong.
  3. You started a totally false thread about Vatican II, and had that thread closed because of your refusal to provide sources. Your response was “Look it up for yourself”
I pray for you, really I do. I don’t pray for you to become Catholic. I don’t pray for you to be mormon. I pray for you to gain knowledge. I pray for you to do research.

If the mormon faith is the one for you, I say great, wonderful, fantastic. Just learn, and know your faith before you make some of the statements you do.
 
I no questions for Catholicism other than to understand your efforts to improve your relations with Protestants and yet Latter Day Saints should receive your displeasure. I gave up trying to understand your beliefs in Catholicism. I am happy I left Catholicism.

Why nice to the Protestants?

This confirms to me you are threatened by us.
 
thecourt said:
I no questions for Catholicism other than to understand your efforts to improve your relations with Protestants and yet Latter Day Saints should receive your displeasure. I gave up trying to understand your beliefs in Catholicism. I am happy I left Catholicism.

Why nice to the Protestants?

This confirms to me you are threatened by us.
Click to expand...
What does us improving our relations with Protestants have to do with being threatened by them. I love Protestants. I married one for goodness sakes. But it never threatened my faith. Nothing could. My Best friend is a Protestant. She does not threaten me nor I her. SHe prays for me, I pray for her. You make no sense to me. My husband nor my best friend ever threatened me or I them:shrug:

But could you answer my question though. Are you saying that when Jesus promised us that the gates of hade would not pevail that he lied. Yes or No. Why do you refuse to answer? Are you afraid?
 
thecourt said:
I no questions for Catholicism other than to understand your efforts to improve your relations with Protestants and yet Latter Day Saints should receive your displeasure. I gave up trying to understand your beliefs in Catholicism. I am happy I left Catholicism.

Why nice to the Protestants?

This confirms to me you are threatened by us.
Click to expand...
thecourt,

Im not clear with your meaning here.

Are you saying you feel that Catholics have good relations with Protestants but have displeasure with Mormons?

To be honest most Catholics see Mormons as no different from Protestants. Infact, they see them as Protestants.
 
[SIGN][/SIGN]
twopekinguys said:
Well, you’ve called Jesus a liar, so what is your point? It appears it is you that is not familiar with scripture. Try reading Matthew 16:18.

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church, so you are calling Jesus a liar.

Try reading Matthew 7:15, and the warning of false prophets coming in sheep’s clothing.

It is OK for you to read these, they come from the Bible, unless you consider the Bible anti-mormon. I notice you very rarely, if ever quote scripture, so I’m not sure you are familiar with scripture at all.

Do you even read the bizarre stuff you post? Do you even read, or understand the responses you’ve received.

Your own church members (Diana in particular) have corrected you on at least one issue.

It is obvious you have your own “idea” of what the Catholic Church is. It is also obvious you have your own “idea” of what you think the mormon church is.

It is also extremely obvious that you don’t understand what either one of them is. Catholics are providing you information, and trying to correct your misinformation, and you have your mormon brethren correcting your misinformation about the mormon church.

You have been corrected on several issues, and yet you refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong.
  1. Diania explained to you that Joseph Smith did ordain a black man. Elijah Abel I believe, but you refuse to acknowledge you were wrong.
  2. You stated that no Catholic Church had Jesus in its name. I gave you several examples, but you refuse to acknowledge you were wrong.
  3. You started a totally false thread about Vatican II, and had that thread closed because of your refusal to provide sources. Your response was “Look it up for yourself”
I pray for you, really I do. I don’t pray for you to become Catholic. I don’t pray for you to be mormon. I pray for you to gain knowledge. I pray for you to do research.

If[SIGN] the mormon faith is the one for you, I say great, wonderful, fantastic. [/SIGN]Just learn, and know your faith before you make some of the statements you do.
Click to expand...
I agree with you also. But may I add that if she wants to choose that faith God gave her free will to do so. But she has no right to say things about the CC that are untrue and must defend what she says. It is not fair for her to say things that are untrue about our faith and we will and have a right to defend it.
 
Marie5890 said:
thecourt,

Im not clear with your meaning here.

Are you saying you feel that Catholics have good relations with Protestants but have displeasure with Mormons?

To be honest most Catholics see Mormons as no different from Protestants. Infact, they see them as Protestants.
Click to expand...
Correct. Anyone that is not Catholic is Protestant. There fore protests the Catholic Church. But just because we do not agree with them does not mean we do not have good relations with them.
 
thecourt said:
I no questions for Catholicism other than to understand your efforts to improve your relations with Protestants and yet Latter Day Saints should receive your displeasure. I gave up trying to understand your beliefs in Catholicism. I am happy I left Catholicism.

Why nice to the Protestants?

This confirms to me you are threatened by us.
Click to expand...
The fact that you are positng to a Catholic Forum shows you are threatened by us. Makes one wonder just who you are tyring to convince that your decision to leave the One True Church was correct-us or yourself? i suspect the latter
 
rinnie said:
[SIGN][/SIGN]

I agree with you also. But may I add that if she wants to choose that faith God gave her free will to do so. But she has no right to say things about the CC that are untrue and must defend what she says. It is not fair for her to say things that are untrue about our faith and we will and have a right to defend it.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct.

Free will is an amazing thing. It can lead you the right way, or the wrong way.

You are also right that it is wrong of any poster to make an untrue statement about any subject on here, and not expect a rebuttal. That isn’t how discussion works.
 
Marie5890 said:
wisedomseeker, to answer your last questions. The Mormon answer is yes, they believe that inbetween what they call the apostacy and the “restoration” all people were deceived by false teachings.

Its one of the reasons they do extensive genealogical work and do proxy baptisms in their temples. (Also why the do proxy sealings in the temples)

Mormons believe that their baptism are the only valid ones so they have to “redeem the dead” thru temple work.

Unless of course these dogmas have too been changed since I left back in 1991. From some of the things that thecourt has said it does sound like that they are changing some of their doctrines since I have left.
Click to expand...
So, the death of so many Christians from the beginning was all because of false Doctrines? is it what they believe?

it would be interesting to know the doctrines they have and how they made up their doctrines and based on what?

** O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine**
 
wisdomseeker said:
So, the death of so many Christians from the beginning was all because of false Doctrines? is it what they believe?

it would be interesting to know the doctrines they have and how they made up their doctrines and based on what?

** O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine**
Click to expand...
They would say that from those at the start of the "apostacy’ until the “restoration” died without the fulness of the gospel and need to be redeemed by having their “work” done in the temple (baptism, confirmation, endowment, sealings)

To be honest I am not sure how these dogmas came into being for them. I do know that the endowment is similar to the Mason rite. (although its my understanding that the endowment ceremony is different know from when I went thru in the '80s. And even that was different from what was done in JSmith’s time and into the 20th century)

Joseph Smith, btw was a Mason. It’s obvious that he took that rituals, made some changes, and turned it into the endowment ceremony.
 
thecourt said:
I no questions for Catholicism other than to understand your efforts to improve your relations with Protestants and yet Latter Day Saints should receive your displeasure. I gave up trying to understand your beliefs in Catholicism. I am happy I left Catholicism.

Why nice to the Protestants?

This confirms to me you are threatened by us.
Click to expand...
for your information when Californians attacked the mormons on the moral issue earlier this year, the CC immediatly came in defense of the mormons. the CC told the Californians to come after the CC and not the mormons.

O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine
 
Marie5890 said:
They would say that from those at the start of the "apostacy’ until the “restoration” died without the fulness of the gospel and need to be redeemed by having their “work” done in the temple (baptism, confirmation, endowment, sealings)

To be honest I am not sure how these dogmas came into being for them. I do know that the endowment is similar to the Mason rite. (although its my understanding that the endowment ceremony is different know from when I went thru in the '80s. And even that was different from what was done in JSmith’s time and into the 20th century)

Joseph Smith, btw was a Mason. It’s obvious that he took that rituals, made some changes, and turned it into the endowment ceremony.
Click to expand...
it sounds like. the secrecy of their doctrines and dogmas.
the CC docrines and dogmas is for all to see and know. the whole world knows about the CC. they either hate or love her, just like they do to her Master(our Lord).

**
O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine**
 
wisdomseeker said:
it sounds like. the secrecy of their doctrines and dogmas.
the CC docrines and dogmas is for all to see and know. the whole world knows about the CC. they either hate or love her, just like they do to her Master(our Lord).

**
O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine**
Click to expand...
Correct, it’s all there for people to find, especially in the Catechism and on the vatican website. After all, who hides a lantern under a bed or bushel basket?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top