Why Is Catholicism Threatened to Your Claim of Being the True Church

[rinnie]

for your information when Californians attacked the mormons on the moral issue earlier this year, the CC immediatly came in defense of the mormons. the CC told the Californians to come after the CC and not the mormons.

O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine

Yeah, If WS is correct there you people should like us better. You should be nicer to us We don’t dislike you guys we are just trying to help ya out is all. Believe it or not I love the mormons too. I have alot of fun with you guys believe it or not. One of my favorite customers is mormon. I can tell he is not crazy about Catholics but he loves me. He wants me to show him why we believe what we do, and he really is confused. I can tell. I would never try to convert him, its not my job. I do hair not souls. I just figure if he does not become Catholic I will just screw up his next haircut You know I am just kidding

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy Carson claims that when some leave the LDS church, that means it is false?

Uh…no. I responded to your statement which was as follows:

Originally Posted by thecourt forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
The Protestant reformers did what they particularly to me as evidence that it is not the true church. Catholicism I suppose felt how dare anyone would question its claim. Their efforts showed that Catholicism had flaws.

Now, YOU think that the Protestant Rebellion was evidence that the Catholic Church is not the true Church. I pointed out that people also leave Mormonism…will you logically conclude that this PROVES Mormonism is a lie?

I am worried about those who leave. The church will continue to grow in spite of those who leave it.

As long as you keep finding people who don’t know the truth, you’ve got a shot. It’s a numbers game for you, isn’t it?

Catholicism loses members — does this not bring in question your lack of being the true church?

If Mormonism also loses members, what question does that raise in your mind?

Absolutely none whatsoever, and the fact that you can’t see the double-standard is a testimony to the programming you have undergone.

 

[Randy_Carson]

HarmonyServant ancient prophets prophesied that the church would fall into apostasy and be restored in the future.

The gates would have to prevail because it was foretold that man made doctrines would into the church and the real and true priesthood authority was not on the earth.

Mormonism and “The Great Apostasy” Refuted from Scripture

2 Thessalonians 2:1-11
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
Mormon missionaries will suggest that “The Great Apostasy” must come before the return of Christ, which is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:8. However, verse 8 doesn’t suggest that the apostasy will occur before the return of Christ, but that the return of Christ will actually end that apostasy, destroying it with the “splendor of his coming”.

This seems to paint Mormons into a corner because there are only three possible conclusions:

a) the “great apostasy” has occurred and has ended, which means that the second coming of Christ has already occurred (Mormon missionaries, like Catholics, will reject that this is possible);

b) the “great apostasy” has occurred, and is still going on (rather than ending with Joseph Smith) because 2 Thessalonians says that the coming of Christ would end it, not a “modern day prophet”. (Mormon missionaries will reject this because it would mean their Church, the supposed instrument of the restoration, is an apostate church, as well);

c) the “great apostasy” has not yet occurred.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Wisdomseeker the church will never need to be restored again because the Lord his restored church would not be destroyed or taken from the earth, his priesthood authority particularly.

I recognize Catholicism wishes we would go away. We are not.

thecourt-

How long have you been a Mormon?

 

[Randy_Carson]

PaulDupre so Catholicism is doing a great job in light of the Protestant, Evangelical, as well as my church who continue to help you keep your members?

I would guess those folks left Catholicism as I did because Catholicism lacks the truth.

Nope.

Most people leave Catholicism over moral issues. They want to divorce or use artificial birth control, and the Church will not (because it cannot) budge on these issues.

What do you think about these two issues, TC?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jharek,
He may have attended a Methodist Sunday School, but that did not make him a member of the Methodist church. He did show an interest in the Methodist teachings, and I suppose may have attended to discuss those teachings with someone more knowledgeable about the subject than himself. He was a student of the Bible, and was engaged in a learning process–not a one-time learning event. In 1829, he received the keys and authority to be the instrument for the restoration of the true Biblical gospel and the true church, but not until then.

God doesn’t forbid attending a church of another faith. Why would God be so small-minded as that?

So, what Church would you be interested in attending other than the LDS as part of your study of the Bible?

 

[Snerticus]

I don’t know if anyone is interested, but on the EWTN program ‘The Journey Home’ is a former Mormon. If you want to watch it, go HERE and scroll to the bottom of the page where it says “Watch The Journey Home 100k 300k Windows Media” and click on either 100k or 300k, depending on your internet speed.

This week’s guest is not up yet, but last week’s guest, a former Presbyterian, is on. I think it takes 24 hours before they post an episode. But hey, you can still watch last week’s episode if you want. This week’s former LDS guest was on tonight at 8pm ET here in the US and the streaming video should be up by tomorrow and then for the rest of the week. Also, if you get EWTN, 'The Journey Home is also on a few hours from now as well if you want to catch it. You can watch the website streaming episode any time of day, once it’s up, though.

If you are an LDS member and want to see how Catholics think and reason, ‘The Journey Home’ is a good show to watch. You can get to see how and why we think and can thus adapt your discussions with us in a way we can understand better. If you are a Catholic, you might learn something about your own faith here too. I almost always learn something new about my faith on this program, and I learn a lot about other faiths as well. And the guests are not bitter about where they came from most of the time. Usually, they look on their past as a blessing from God. I don’t think a guest has ever been nasty to his past faith.

I really like that about ‘The Journey Home’. Many times the host, Marcus Grodi, will ask what the guest feels that Catholicism lacks that their old faith has. And it’s interesting to listen to, because most of the time, the guest is right.

Snert

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t know if anyone is interested, but on the EWTN program ‘The Journey Home’ is a former Mormon. If you want to watch it, go HERE and scroll to the bottom of the page where it says “Watch The Journey Home 100k 300k Windows Media” and click on either 100k or 300k, depending on your internet speed.

This week’s guest is not up yet, but last week’s guest, a former Presbyterian, is on. I think it takes 24 hours before they post an episode. But hey, you can still watch last week’s episode if you want. This week’s former LDS guest was on tonight at 8pm ET here in the US and the streaming video should be up by tomorrow and then for the rest of the week. Also, if you get EWTN, 'The Journey Home is also on a few hours from now as well if you want to catch it. You can watch the website streaming episode any time of day, once it’s up, though.

If you are an LDS member and want to see how Catholics think and reason, ‘The Journey Home’ is a good show to watch. You can get to see how and why we think and can thus adapt your discussions with us in a way we can understand better. If you are a Catholic, you might learn something about your own faith here too. I almost always learn something new about my faith on this program, and I learn a lot about other faiths as well. And the guests are not bitter about where they came from most of the time. Usually, they look on their past as a blessing from God. I don’t think a guest has ever been nasty to his past faith.

I really like that about ‘The Journey Home’. Many times the host, Marcus Grodi, will ask what the guest feels that Catholicism lacks that their old faith has. And it’s interesting to listen to, because most of the time, the guest is right.

Snert

It looks like the program is being shown again at midnight (central time). At least that is what the guide on direct tv shows.

 

[ParkerD]

So, what Church would you be interested in attending other than the LDS as part of your study of the Bible?

Randy,
I hope you are doing well. Thanks for asking.

I was very sincerely impressed with a wonderful woman I met while on a job in Danville, Illinois in about summer 1977, and she belonged to a Bible study group with the First Presbyterian Church, if I recall correctly. She was so kind and thoughtful–I was really impressed. I suppose that if I joined such a study group, I would want someone like her in it so that the discussion would be enlightened by what one sees in the behavior as well as by what one finds in the Bible readings being discussed.

 

[thecourt]

twopekinguys The Journey Home is another place that former Mormons can spread how they supposedly came to the Catholicism truth and how my church is false. These folks I pray for, nonetheless their experiences will not convince me that my church is false because it is not false.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy,
I hope you are doing well. Thanks for asking.

I was very sincerely impressed with a wonderful woman I met while on a job in Danville, Illinois in about summer 1977, and she belonged to a Bible study group with the First Presbyterian Church, if I recall correctly. She was so kind and thoughtful–I was really impressed. I suppose that if I joined such a study group, I would want someone like her in it so that the discussion would be enlightened by what one sees in the behavior as well as by what one finds in the Bible readings being discussed.

Me, too.

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys The Journey Home is another place that former Mormons can spread how they supposedly came to the Catholicism truth and how my church is false. These folks I pray for, nonetheless their experiences will not convince me that my church is false because it is not false.

I’m thinking you’re having problems comprehending things that are said.

No one is trying to convince you to leave the mormon church.

As far as the people on The Journey Home. If you were familiar with that program at all, you would see that they don’t have just mormons on there. I have seen Presbyterians, Methodists, Pentacostals, etc. It is a platform for those individuals to bare “their” testimonies so to speak. You volunteer your testimony here don’t you? Why shouldn’t they do the same thing?

I want you to read the following statement very closely.

If you believe the mormon church is the church for you, by all means, stay mormon.

 

[twopekinguys]

Randy,
I hope you are doing well. Thanks for asking.

I was very sincerely impressed with a wonderful woman I met while on a job in Danville, Illinois in about summer 1977, and she belonged to a Bible study group with the First Presbyterian Church, if I recall correctly. She was so kind and thoughtful–I was really impressed. I suppose that if I joined such a study group, I would want someone like her in it so that the discussion would be enlightened by what one sees in the behavior as well as by what one finds in the Bible readings being discussed.

She wasn’t the pastor’s wife by any chance was she?

My Grandfather was a Presbyterian minister in Danville about that time.

 

[thecourt]

twopekinguys I have no plans of leaving my church in light of things people believe here on the forums. It is said by mostly former Mormons who did not have a strong testimony or were offended in some way, using that as their excuse to leave and join the crowd of folks trying to convince others, including myself why the church is false.

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys I have no plans of leaving my church in light of things people believe here on the forums. It is said by mostly former Mormons who did not have a strong testimony or were offended in some way, using that as their excuse to leave and join the crowd of folks trying to convince others, including myself why the church is false.

I don’t recall seeing anyone asking you to leave your church. If I have missed that post(s), please provide a reference.

These forums are for discussing the differences between the two.

Just responding that something is false does not help, or prove your position. You need to explain why the statement is false, and provide references to back up you claim.

So far in your posts, all I have seen (I’m not sure about others) is your unwillingness to discuss an issue. You have a tendency to say something is false and leave it at that. You also have a tendency of making unfounded statements, and unfortunately statements that make you look like you’re lying.

I am saying this with all charity. If you want to be taken seriously on these forums, try following the examples set by ParkerD, Diania, and MrParker. When they disagree with a statement, they provide references (to the best of their ability) to defend their position. Once they do, it is up to the person on the other side of the conversation to do the same thing. By the way, if I am not mistaken, that is part of the forum rules.

 

[Snerticus]

Well, at least I now know why thecourt is so stubborn and will not listen to us. And why they keep repeating over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over that they will not leave their church, even though no one’s asking them to or I suspect even cares at this point. (hint - watch the Journey Home’s episode of the former LDS bishop).

thecourt, I have to ask this question and I want you to answer honestly. It’s not a hard question to answer at all.

Why are you here?

Other LDS members listen to us and even though they may not agree with anything we say, they at least show us courtesy. You’re actually the first LDS member with an attitude I’ve talked to on these forums - and even in person. All of them have been really sweet folk, the kind of people I admire. Which of course is one of the points that converts others.

You’re certainly not going to convert anyone with your condescending words and lack of depth regarding your faith. And you’re definitely not here to learn - you said so yourself.

So, again, why are you here?

 

[thecourt]

twopekinguys it is false because the Holy Ghost has not confirmed to me that it is true. And it would not, the things spread on the forums here that I am convinced is created or some have convinced themselves it its true as they see it.

Catholics no to get past the arrogance that their church is true and I need to deny mine, go to the nearest local parish, go to confession and become loyal to Catholicism again? For me, it will never happen.

Catholicism has the issues that it has and I was seeking the truth, resulting in me leaving Catholicism a long time ago.

 

[Snerticus]

catholics no to get past the arrogance that their church is true and I need to deny mine, go to the nearest local parish, go to confession and become loyal to Catholicism again? For me, it will never happen.

You do realize that the LDS have confession too, don’t you?

 

[Marie5890]

thecourt, I have a sincere question.

Is English your native language?

The reason I ask is because I find you seem to have a bit of a struggle with both comprehending some of our posts and because your own posts seem to have have a solid grasp on the English language.

Im trying to understand why there is such confusion when it comes to your posts?

Thanks .

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys it is false because the Holy Ghost has not confirmed to me that it is true. And it would not, the things spread on the forums here that I am convinced is created or some have convinced themselves it its true as they see it.

Catholics no to get past the arrogance that their church is true and I need to deny mine, go to the nearest local parish, go to confession and become loyal to Catholicism again? For me, it will never happen.

Catholicism has the issues that it has and I was seeking the truth, resulting in me leaving Catholicism a long time ago.

Do you even read the things that are posted?

Read this very very very slowly…No one is asking you to leave your church.

How many times does this have to be said?

No one as asked you to deny your church. If they have, please provide a link to that post.

I wonder though, are you secretly wanting someone to ask you to leave your church? Is that why you are really here?

If that is what you are really looking for, that isn’t going to happen. At least it shouldn’t.

All we can do, Catholic or otherwise, is to present what we believe to be the facts, and let the Holy Spirit guide you from there.

Something I find humorous in your post is that you think Catholics need to get past their arrogance that their church is true, but isn’t that exactly what you are doing? Showing your arrogance.