Why Is Catholicism Threatened to Your Claim of Being the True Church

[TheosisM]

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If the Priesthood was removed how can the RCC prove and name every single Pope since Peter? How can that be possible.

Now lets talk about the last Apostle that died? It has not happened yet. The laying of hands has never stopped. Apostle succession is here today. You cannot deny that. The Pope is traced to Peter thank-you.

What she means is that the priesthood authority was removed. So in this view, even if we have the line of Popes back to Peter, if the authority of the priesthood was removed, it doesn’t matter.

 

[wisdomseeker]

You know what it was on today in the afternoon, I saw the end of it. It was amazing. He showed how messed up things are in that Church. He said for awhile he was so afraid to trust anyone, that how many lies he was fed. But it was so great when he said that he walked into the CC and God came to him loved him.

But he did say the main point. That cannot prove the Church Apostatize. It’s impossible. And without that no need for Joseph Smith. which means no true doctrine.

They cannot say that the Church Apostatized without saying Jesus Lied. Its as simple as that. Scripture blows them out of the water. ANd they know it.

being a man of much knowledge, he did touch on subject of mansory. how mormons draw their knowledge from the masons. very interesting indeed. and they have high priests too, many of them. that according to our friend here any man can become hight priests. it sounds to me that somebody is trying to imitate what occured in the Bible in the best way they can.

:byzsoc:

 

[dianaiad]

I see… thanks!

Oh, but I notice you said BC; you mean AD, do you not? That would mean it took place before Christ’s birth.

yeah, I meant AD.

 

[dianaiad]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

If the Priesthood was removed how can the RCC prove and name every single Pope since Peter? How can that be possible.

We can name every Pope you acknowledge as Pope, too. That doesn’t mean they had the priesthood.

[Now lets talk about the last Apostle that died? It has not happened yet. The laying of hands has never stopped. Apostle succession is here today. You cannot deny that.

Uhm, yes, we can. And do. That’s rather the point, you see.

[The Pope is traced to Peter thank-you.

The POPE may be, (or may not be…whatever…) but the papacy isn’t the priesthood authority.
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[dianaiad]

You know what it was on today in the afternoon, I saw the end of it. It was amazing. He showed how messed up things are in that Church. He said for awhile he was so afraid to trust anyone, that how many lies he was fed. But it was so great when he said that he walked into the CC and God came to him loved him.

But he did say the main point. That cannot prove the Church Apostatize. It’s impossible. And without that no need for Joseph Smith. which means no true doctrine.

They cannot say that the Church Apostatized without saying Jesus Lied. Its as simple as that. Scripture blows them out of the water. ANd they know it.

Evidently not, or we’d all be Catholic.

 

[dianaiad]

No, Here it is. Either You have to say that Jesus Christ is a liar. or you are going to have to face the Truth that he is not a liar and you are misled. Simple as that.

How are we saying that Jesus is a liar? He DID plainly tell everyone that there would BE an apostacy, y’know.

 

[Marie5890]

How so? Look up the definition of “prevail…” and you see something about 'finally winning," or “succeed.” It does NOT mean 'temporarily have the upper hand." In order to “prevail,” you can’t ever be defeated.

Not ever.

So even if the gates of hell kept people on on one side or the other for…even a couple of thousand years, what is that to the Lord? If He chooses to restore His church, His authority…at ANY time, then the gates of hell have NOT prevailed, have they?

Because, m’friend, here we are.

Wouldnt it be wiser to look up the Greek word katischuo?

 

[dianaiad]

Wouldnt it be wiser to look up the Greek word katischuo?

Are you claiming that the English bibles have mistranslated the word? According to everything I have seen, my point remains. “prevail” means to 'succeed" or 'overcome completely" or 'stand fast" but the connotation is ALWAYS that once one prevails…that’s it. So if someone comes along and beats you, you haven’t prevailed.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Well, they haven’t. you are quite correct. After all, here we are.

Dianaiad-

This confuses me. I thought that the Great Apostasy was an essential component in the Mormon restoration.

If the gates of hell never prevailed against the Church, then it stands to reason that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ upon Peter the rock.

Consequently, I know this is not what you mean, but I cannot reconcile that with your statement above.

Help, please.

 

[Randy_Carson]

How are we saying that Jesus is a liar? He DID plainly tell everyone that there would BE an apostacy, y’know.

Just to be sure we’re all on the same page, would you mind providing the exact verse? I’d like to take a look at it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dianaiad]

Dianaiad-

This confuses me. I thought that the Great Apostasy was an essential component in the Mormon restoration.

If the gates of hell never prevailed against the Church, then it stands to reason that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ upon Peter the rock.

Consequently, I know this is not what you mean, but I cannot reconcile that with your statement above.

Help, please.

It never prevailed against the church because…we believe that the church was RESTORED. “prevaling” means…you never lose. “prevailing” does NOT mean that you don’t lose battles–just that you don’t lose the WAR.

So the gates of hell have not prevailed against the church; hell has lost the war. Come to think of it, hell always HAS ‘lost the war,’ because God knows what He is doing. But does Satan win a lot of battles?

Oh, yes. He does that. Hence the apostacy. Hence lots of different beliefs out there that aren’t quite correct. Hence…the world as it is.

 

[PaulDupre]

Dianaiad:

How are we saying that Jesus is a liar? He DID plainly tell everyone that there would BE an apostacy, y’know.

All of the bible “proof texts” of the Mormon apostasy tell of an apostasy FROM the Church, not an apostasy OF the Church.

There have always been individuals and groups who broke away from the True Church. It happened during the apostles’ time, it happened during the Early Church Fathers’ time, and it is happening now. But the Church goes on without the apostates.

And there have always been individuals and groups who come into the True Church. It happened during the apostles’ time, it happened during the Early Church Fathers’ time, and it is happening now.

 

[Randy_Carson]

It never prevailed against the church because…we believe that the church was RESTORED. “prevaling” means…you never lose. “prevailing” does NOT mean that you don’t lose battles–just that you don’t lose the WAR.

So the gates of hell have not prevailed against the church; hell has lost the war. Come to think of it, hell always HAS ‘lost the war,’ because God knows what He is doing. But does Satan win a lot of battles?

Oh, yes. He does that. Hence the apostacy. Hence lots of different beliefs out there that aren’t quite correct. Hence…the world as it is.

Think carefully about what you just said.

If the Church, like a great ship, has lost a few battles but remains afloat, then that Church (and no other) is the one I want to be aboard.

After all, Jesus promised to build ONE Church - not one a long time ago and a second one beginning with Joseph Smith 1800 years later after the first one sank.

 

[kempo1]

they have no justification for their very existence and they know this

 

[Marie5890]

The apostasy argument tends to be circular for Mormons was my experience.

They believe that a Great Apostasy happened.

Why do they believe it? Because Joseph Smith was told it happened and a restoration was needed.

I was stunned at my own lack of real knowledge of the Early Church Fathers and the early Church itself.

Mormons dont normally study and do that kind of research. They are taught that after the last Apostle died that the priesthood was taken from the earth. They are taught it so they believe it. But they dont actually study the early Church.

 

[dianaiad]

All of the bible “proof texts” of the Mormon apostasy tell of an apostasy FROM the Church, not an apostasy OF the Church.

That’s pretty specific, and requires a pretty specific reference. How do you figure that an apostacy FROM the church doesn’t mean everybody in the church apostacizes? After all, we too believe that it was an apostacy FROM the church. As in…everybody went.

QUOTE=PaulDupre;5926977]There have always been individuals and groups who broke away from the True Church. It happened during the apostles’ time, it happened during the Early Church Fathers’ time, and it is happening now. But the Church goes on without the apostates.

And there have always been individuals and groups who come into the True Church. It happened during the apostles’ time, it happened during the Early Church Fathers’ time, and it is happening now.

That is quite, quite true. Except of course for the ‘Early Church FAther’s time,’ depending on who you think the “Early church Fathers” all WERE.

 

[kempo1]

The apostasy argument tends to be circular for Mormons was my experience.

They believe that a Great Apostasy happened.

Why do they believe it? Because Joseph Smith was told it happened and a restoration was needed.

I was stunned at my own lack of real knowledge of the Early Church Fathers and the early Church itself.

Mormons dont normally study and do that kind of research. They are taught that after the last Apostle died that the priesthood was taken from the earth. They are taught it so they believe it. But they dont actually study the early Church.

thats because most non catholic churches early church fathers teachings began at the time their church began

 

[dianaiad]

Think carefully about what you just said.{I did, Randy.
Randy Carson;5927064:

If the Church, like a great ship, has lost a few battles but remains afloat, then that Church (and no other) is the one I want to be aboard.

After all, Jesus promised to build ONE Church - not one a long time ago and a second one beginning with Joseph Smith 1800 years later after the first one sank.

Ah, but ‘restoration’ doesn’t mean ‘a second one.’ It means a RESTORATION…of the FIRST one.

 

[benidict]

Randy Carson;5927064:

Think carefully about what you just said.{I did, Randy.

Ah, but ‘restoration’ doesn’t mean ‘a second one.’ It means a RESTORATION…of the FIRST one.

hi diana. if you read Church history. the Mormon beliefs, worship style, and doctrines never existed in the first Church. also Christ never said His Church would need to be “restored” before his second coming. on the contrary. He stated He would be with us till the end of the age. He stated that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. also i think what the other poster was trying to get across about people apostizing. was what the apostles stated in their writings. such as " they went out from us but were not of us. etc. it was prophecied that many would fall from the truth. who contains the truth? with all due respect, history, and the writings of clement, ignatious, origen and augustine, not to mention the creed by athanatious.( dont think i spelled that right.) alll point to the Catholic Church being the one that contains the whole deposit of truth. and that anyone who departs from this faith, they are the ones in a state of apostacy. nowhere is is written in the Bible that the Church would apostisize. thank you for your time. love in Christ

 

[wisdomseeker]

That’s pretty specific, and requires a pretty specific reference. How do you figure that an apostacy FROM the church doesn’t mean everybody in the church apostacizes? After all, we too believe that it was an apostacy FROM the church. As in…everybody went.

That is quite, quite true. Except of course for the ‘Early Church FAther’s time,’ depending on who you think the “Early church Fathers” all WERE.

Apostacy is for those who left the Church and not for those who stayed, this is pretty simple.

you know. those who left became apostates. it s impossible for the Church to be apostate. only those who leave carries the stain of being an apostate. any way this is the same claim that all protestant makes, that the Church became apostate, not even realizing what they are saying.

**
O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine **