Mormons don’t believe that, because they aren’t taught to believe that. They are a sad cruel joke… Their whole basis of excisting is a joke. they live the lie because they are taught lies and nothing more. Thats why they loath Catholism. Because it is the truth. It’s the truth that sheds light onto their lie.They loath Catholism, Because it spits in the face of their pagan religion. And the more aware of the Truth of Catholism, the more of a danger they realize it is to their cult.Thats why you get them coming to places like this Stating bold face lies. They are blinded by the lies of their false prophet. They accuse us of worshiiping mary, saints and (big the biggest mormon lie of all) statues. Yet what do they do? They worship a man, a man who knew neither Jesus or the apostles. the founder of the mormon church is no better than benny hinn.So i say let the fools go on casting lies about the Church. Let them worship their man god. They say they live their life by the teachings of the bible. yet When the bible clearly states that Jesus instructed Peter to build his church, they chose to ignore it. yeah they believe the Bible is the true word of God asnd they have no need of anything else. Until the Bible says something that might take the power away from their cult leaders. like i said in my earlier post. show me in the bible Where Jesus Christ told Benny errr i mean jonathan smith to go start his Church… You can’t cause Jesus never did, but you will find where Jesus told peter to go form his Church. The Bible thats my proof that the Church is the true Church, the very thing these people rely on.
Let me see if I can break this down neatly:
This is what it all comes down to. No, I don’t think I can prove my faith through things like science and I wanted to see if Catholics really could. Basically, I think we’ve reached the conclusion that this is not possible in religion. We all like to think we can because we all believe we have the truth. But, the human psyche just doesn’t work that way, and as mentioned, not even science and history can be proven to be valid because our understanding of them is incomplete. This returns me to my original statement, that proof is relative. Just as you can’t prove it to me, I can’t prove it to you.
Finally! Something we can all agree on!!!
Disagree. That would actually be the Mormon Church.
Here is the one dilemma which is worth talking about and has been brought up often now. I have tried to convey my opinion on this before, but hopefully this time I will succeed. I have not read the EFCs enough to readily say that I disagree with you. But, I have seen that everyone who has seems to put themselves in this category, including Catholics, Protstants and Mormons. Now, until I look into it myself I will not have anything extremely useful to say about it. And, catholic-rcia, I would love to purchase that set and read it all, but neither my time nor my bank account will permit it. I am a full-time student and although I would like to get a degree in lots of diferent areas, I just can’t spread myself around that way. The only reason for me to do that would be to try to prove that what I believe is true, or to prove it false. There are lots of other things I could do first if that is my goal. I would like to read it eventually, just out of interest, but not at this point in time.
Ha! So can Billy-boy on Bob’s Super Fun Healing Hour on the Do-it-Yourself Miracles Network. The most believable and faith-promoting miracles (as opposed to the carnival fun house jaw-droppers) are personal in nature. I have witnessed these. It is certainly a great evidence, but I have found that most people in most churches would make this claim, whether or not they are real and from God; often people can’t tell.
I can see why you are frustrated, dennis, but you are choosing to not understand what I’m writing and so make yourself so. I haven’t seen any proof from you. I would gladly choose a religion that could be proven, but I don’t believe that that can happen. It would be very difficult to prove one not true, and would not be worth doing, in my estimation. So, it’s not that I’ll believe what I want despite the proof for or against, but rather that there is none existant. May I invite you to read my thoughts on this in the thread Faith? If you disagree with my reasoning then answer there.
Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately, however, according to Mormon belief the Nephites (Native American Christians) were wiped out by the Lamanites (Native American anti-Christians) in a climatic battle in present-day upstate New York before the pilgrims arrived. This battle wiped out Christianity in the Americas, and the only record left of it was the Book of Mormon which the Nephites hid away towards the end of their existence. The forward of the BoM claims that the Lamanites are the principle ancestors of the present-day Native Americans. Unfortunately again, the Lamanites passed on no oral or written history of either themselves nor the Nephites nor of the climatic battle.I have a question… sorry if it’s a dumb one, but:
If Jesus really travelled to America during his life, wouldn’t the Indians have been Christian before any pilgrims or other people set foot there?
Sorry, I could have the wrongest idea about this, but I’m just curious!
- Peace
And none of this has anything to do with the thread. Chris, why do you post things that you full well know that any Mormon would object to? This is kind of like if a Mormon came in to an LDS forum asking about Catholic beliefs about the Virgin Mary and I went ahead and misrepresented the doctrine to my heart’s content. “Yes, they do worship her, they light candles and pray to her. They call it ‘venerating’ but it’s all the same. They even have lots of different ones that they give different names. So really they’re not even Christians but polytheists.” I could get away with that, I’m sure, if no knowing Catholics were around. But I try to show more respect than that, whether I believe the above or not.
That being said, it’s very easy to make up your own religion, especially when nothing can prove it wrong. Anybody could say that aliens inhabited the earth before animals ever did, and nobody could disprove it.
You’re right, and this is one reason there are so many religions in the world. Most forms of religion can’t be proven right or wrong by human means to the convincing of those of another religious thought or practice. The only case I can think of is when a man constantly predicts that something will happen and fails every time. It has shown that after a while his followers tend to give up.
It may not have to do much with your thread, but I was only trying to answer Peace_Seeker’s question. Peace_Seeker did not specifiy in the post that he/she only wanted LDS to answer. First I answered it, then I expounded on the natural implications of that answer. I did not misrepresent any Mormon doctrine in my answer. I told Peace_Maker exactly what the LDS church teaches, and since this is a Catholic Answers forum, I also gave our point of view at the end. Your example above is faulty because I did not misrepresent Mormon beliefs.
Chris:
Now, I would put Catholicism there instead, honestly. My reasons for believing so may not be so evidencial as you’d like, but rather moral. In that way, it is definitely falsifiable. It all depends on what your criteria is for falsification. More than anything, it seems that many Christians have the propensity to want to falsify other beliefs, while this is not as common in other world religions. For example, ever hear a Buddhist argue against Christianity?
Yes, I am aware that any Catholic on this board would be quick to point out that their church is the most logical, well-supported, true, divine, beautiful on earth and throughout history. This is not news to me. The problem arises when you begin asking those who are not Catholic.
This is just plain hard to believe. Maybe the Church takes these measures, but many Catholics will find a miracle in anything they can. For example, on the News a while back they talked about the image of Jesus in the grain of a wooden door. Of course, I couldn’t see it. Maybe that’s because I’m heathen. Who knows. These are the miracles I’m referring to, the many that the common Catholic refers to. Besides, you can never know if a witness is actually telling the truth. Take Juan Diego, for example. There’s no way to prove what it is he saw or didn’t see. It’s a Joseph Smith type story - based on hearsay. And then again, whether the devil is involved is another factor to take into consideration. Frankly, all the ‘miracles’ purported by any denomination is a reason for me to not believe it all, because those that need to support their cause with made-up divinities or exaggerated stories don’t strike me as true by any means. In Mormonism I see something different. People didn’t go about bragging about supposed miracles, but rather people wrote them in their journals for their own best interests and for their posterity, and preaching the gospel didn’t rely on such accounts (with exception of the essential role of modern revelation - I refer to healings, more minute proven prophesies, etc). Jesus did miracles yet many disbelieved his integrity and even condemned him being of the devil. Now, I don’t see much difference here.
I doubt it. This is one of the big flaws I find in your reasoning – “Go study, and if you study a lot, and are real smart, then you’ll know I’m right.” What about those that can’t read or aren’t that smart? There are plenty that might just get confused. There are others that just don’t have the time or patience. Study is good, but in religious matters it only gets you so far. Without spirituality, intellectualism is moot. I also think that Catholics have severely misinterpreted or even ignored certain biblical passages that refute this ideology. For these reasons and more, Catholicism is easily refuted. Of course, that’s if you ask me. I’m sure the Catholics here have a very different opinion which they will be eager to voice.
If we look at the hostility and admitted sarcasm of your original post (Now, many of you here have demanded proof of the truth of Mormonism. Lest we unknowingly apply a double standard, let’s see this for the Catholic side. Proove to us dumb ‘ol More-Mans that the Catholic Church is true. The whole “We’ve been here longer so it’s your job to proove what you believe since you’re the ones invading our terrain!” just won’t work here, as many of you have repeatedly written (and implied) that you can proove true the RCC, while the LDS Church can do no such thing. So I’d like to see if the bite is as nasty as that big ol’ bark. Although this post is full of sarcasm, and my motive seems otherwise, I would sincerely like to know why you believe what you do, and although I do plan on not being convinced, and prooving false your proof, I will not ridicule any personal reasons you believe what you do. In another thread, I put up a list of reasons for why Mormons believe in the Great Apostasy. You can do this too, but make it general; you don’t need to focus on just the apostasy. So, what is this proof that I have been reading so much about?) it is obvious that you are not interested in our opinions or point-of-views, but rather are bound and determined to exhibit aggression, oppostion, and antagonism. Therefore, your post is without merit and, like you, should be dismissed.
Are we to counterpose ‘study a lot and you’ll know it’s true’ against ‘pray a lot and youll know it’s true’? I don’t think anyone is saying that study will cause you to ‘know’ the Roman Catholic Church, or Mainstream Christianity is true. Ultimately, faith is always a gift. What I do think you will find is that the basic doctrines of the Christian faith are much less falsifiable than you are crediting them as being. One who has sincere questions and also the the mental abilities, the time, and the resources to devote to such study is called upon to do it.
I don’t see a lot of bigotry or arrogance here. I hear a call by beggars to other beggars, to tell them where they have found food. Of course I AM hearing-impaired.
No one is asked to deny one’s intellect. Neither is anyone asked to believe against their sincerest innermost leadings. If you were a devout Mormon living in another place and/or another era, you might have far fewer contacts with non-Mormons and far fewer questions. In such a case, the spectre of ‘invincible ignorance’ would loom and you would likely not be in jeapardy of your soul. To whom much is given however, much more is required. Which is not to suggest that you are presently in jeapardy of your soul–only that a willful refusal to make full use of the capacities and resources at your disposal may be held against you at the Heavenly Bar.Agreed. :clapping: Have you bothered to take a good look at the riches of spirituality outside of the LDS faith? The LDS Church really teaches a rather truncated spirituality. Ever heard of the prayer known as the Way of the Cross? Ever tried to truly pray the Scriptures in common with others? Ever really tried to experience the worshipful aspects of a Catholic or Anglican Mass?
