Why is change so difficult to swallow?

[wisdomseeker]

I consider myself a Traditional Catholic who accepts all legitimate changes that have come about during and after Vatican II. Legitimate, therein lies the problem. I don’t know (didn’t pay much attention) to the changes in liturgy regarding the TLM and NO Masses. That still does not concern me overmuch, although I am beginning to hunger for all the pomp and splendor of a TLM. What I am concerned about are the abuses in some dioceses herre in the U.S. regarding the liturgy that did come about as a result of some renegade priests/Bishops after Vatican II. deciding to personally interpret the liturgy and teachings of the church ie., have heard about clown masses, other changes in the format of the liturgy in some areas etc.

There also seems to be a weakening in catechesis in the Church now. Sort of a believe what you want to believe attitude.

My awareness reached a peak (still have a long way to go) during this past election when I realized how much at varience some of the Bishops are in teaching the members of their dioceses in regard to what were the intrinsic evils being debated on the ballot in this past presidential election.

As I said, I am just becoming aware as to the depth of misinformation, misguidance and weakening of the Catholic Faith that has happened after Vatican II.

In no way, am I blaming Vatican II itself for the shape the Church is in today. I am holding responsible those priests and bishops who have not remained true to the teachings of the Catholic Church which are still the same teachings as they were before the Council.

Change can be accepted as long as it doesn’t tear at the foundations of the truths of the Church.

I personally believe our Church is in great trouble because of lack of leadership since Vatican II.

i dont want to be critical here but it seems to me it is getting worse than before. i started attended the Church eight years ago and there was no clapping no guitars none of that and now i see all this going on and i see people going with the flow…

my priest very liberal love to mention VII as if was the greatest thing ever. our bishop is also the same. he comes across as a proud man to me. i sense pride coming from priests and bishops now and days.

i believe the holy father is crying tears of blood. i hope he is crying out to God against those disobedient to the teachings of the Church.

God have mercy on us all.

 

[DWPC]

There is a world of difference between “change” and what actually occurred in the Latin Church after VII.

The TLM ceased to be celebrated in almost every Latin Catholic diocese in the world after the introduction of the Missal of Pope Paul VI. Most bishops took the new missal to mean that the TLM was to be suppressed - no longer to be celebrated - ever. Pope Benedict cleared that up once and for all, but many bishops still haven’t “got the message”.

Ripping out the old altars, the side altars, the statues, the Communion rails and the organs to be replaced with Marty Haugen songs, Eucharistic ministers (when we don’t need them) and communion in the hand aren’t changes. They are about getting rid of what was celebrated for centuries and replacing it with drivel. Most churches built since the 1960s look like an architectual school dropout designed them on a piece of paper towel. Beauty was ejected and banality was implemented. The previous Church calendar was scrapped and now we have “Ordinary Time” instead of the Sundays after Epiphany, the Sundays after Pentecost, and the Setpuageisma (the time to prepare for Lent).

The Eastern Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox did not scrap these seasons. Only in the New Mass were they scrapped and it is to our detriment.

Those Catholics who have kept to Holy Tradition, who have weathered the storm and continue to do so, often have a hard time cotaining their bitterness and I can’t blame them. As far as I am concerned the “changes” were implemented to make the Catholic Church more appealing to Protestants. If that was indeed the goal, it has been a resounding failure.

I couldn’t agree more. I would add that the NO violently severed our bond to the rich heritage of our Catholic ancestors, so many of whom suffered for their faith over the centuries, and it shredded the majesty and beauty of the Roman Catholic rite refined over *millenia *and replaced it overnight with profane theatrics and music, and increasingly imposes a phony communal intimacy through group intimidation.

The NO is the Mass by technicality; it was clearly intended as a vehicle to transform the Church, especially the American Church, into a humanist movement where Christ is an accessory to the communal focus. And it’s succeeded.

 

[wisdomseeker]

There is a world of difference between “change” and what actually occurred in the Latin Church after VII.

The TLM ceased to be celebrated in almost every Latin Catholic diocese in the world after the introduction of the Missal of Pope Paul VI. Most bishops took the new missal to mean that the TLM was to be suppressed - no longer to be celebrated - ever. Pope Benedict cleared that up once and for all, but many bishops still haven’t “got the message”.

Ripping out the old altars, the side altars, the statues, the Communion rails and the organs to be replaced with Marty Haugen songs, Eucharistic ministers (when we don’t need them) and communion in the hand aren’t changes. They are about getting rid of what was celebrated for centuries and replacing it with drivel. Most churches built since the 1960s look like an architectual school dropout designed them on a piece of paper towel. Beauty was ejected and banality was implemented. The previous Church calendar was scrapped and now we have “Ordinary Time” instead of the Sundays after Epiphany, the Sundays after Pentecost, and the Setpuageisma (the time to prepare for Lent).

The Eastern Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox did not scrap these seasons. Only in the New Mass were they scrapped and it is to our detriment.

Those Catholics who have kept to Holy Tradition, who have weathered the storm and continue to do so, often have a hard time cotaining their bitterness and I can’t blame them. As far as I am concerned the “changes” were implemented to make the Catholic Church more appealing to Protestants. If that was indeed the goal, it has been a resounding failure.

I so agree with you. correct if i am wrong but it seems that since VII protestants congregations have increased immensely and the number of Catholics in the Church has decreased and it is getting worse every day. i hear people in my parish saying that our parish is dying out. no wonder.

i pray we come back soon to the True worship in the Church.

have you ever heard of the prophecy of St Nilus? between 300 and 400 AD.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I couldn’t agree more. I would add that the NO violently severed our bond to the rich heritage of our Catholic ancestors, so many of whom suffered for their faith over the centuries, and it shredded the majesty and beauty of the Roman Catholic rite refined over *millenia *and replaced it overnight with profane theatrics and music, and increasingly imposes a phony communal intimacy through group intimidation.

The NO is the Mass by technicality; it was clearly intended as a vehicle to transform the Church, especially the American Church, into a humanist movement where Christ is an accessory to the communal focus. And it’s succeeded.

Oh my. have you ever heard this song in the Church? “wade the waters, God is going to trouble the waters.”

i can see people in the Church just want to be done with so they can go home. people are so restless probably because of the lack of substance of the worship. what happened to the words of praise and humility?

sad. very sad.

 

[I_Believe]

I consider myself a Traditional Catholic who accepts all legitimate changes that have come about during and after Vatican II. Legitimate, therein lies the problem. I don’t know (didn’t pay much attention) to the changes in liturgy regarding the TLM and NO Masses. That still does not concern me overmuch, although I am beginning to hunger for all the pomp and splendor of a TLM. What I am concerned about are the abuses in some dioceses herre in the U.S. regarding the liturgy that did come about as a result of some renegade priests/Bishops after Vatican II. deciding to personally interpret the liturgy and teachings of the church ie., have heard about clown masses, other changes in the format of the liturgy in some areas etc.

There also seems to be a weakening in catechesis in the Church now. Sort of a believe what you want to believe attitude.

My awareness reached a peak (still have a long way to go) during this past election when I realized how much at varience some of the Bishops are in teaching the members of their dioceses in regard to what were the intrinsic evils being debated on the ballot in this past presidential election.

As I said, I am just becoming aware as to the depth of misinformation, misguidance and weakening of the Catholic Faith that has happened after Vatican II.

In no way, am I blaming Vatican II itself for the shape the Church is in today. I am holding responsible those priests and bishops who have not remained true to the teachings of the Catholic Church which are still the same teachings as they were before the Council.

Change can be accepted as long as it doesn’t tear at the foundations of the truths of the Church.

I personally believe our Church is in great trouble because of lack of leadership since Vatican II.

Well said :tiphat: