Why is contraception and missing your Sunday obligation a mortal sin?

[Imryl]

The pill chemically alters a woman’s body to make a perfectly healthy part of her dysfunctional and unhealthy…

Wrong. It makes it neither dysfunctional or unhealthy in most cases. Usually the uterus continues to truck along as always, it is just fooled into thinking the cycle is at it’s end. (ie: No lining)

but the very thing that makes her a woman in the first place - her fertility (men don’t ovulate or have periods).

There are many more things then just our uterus that makes us women.

the woman has to treat the very thing that makes her a woman like a disease to be controlled at all costs, even at the risk of her own mental and physical well being.

I don’t view it that way at all. It allows us to choose when we think it is a good time. Rather then having it arbitrarily chosen for us.

Be fruitful and multiply? We’re 6 billion strong currently. I think we’ve multiplied more then enough

 

[fix]

Wrong. It makes it neither dysfunctional or unhealthy in most cases. Usually the uterus continues to truck along as always, it is just fooled into thinking the cycle is at it’s end. (ie: No lining)

How is it good to alter a healthy organ to make it act as it was not intended to act? The “pill” alone has many negative side effects. Are they justified to make health a type of disease?

There are many more things then just our uterus that makes us women.

Does intentionally supressing fertility make a woman more of a woman?

I don’t view it that way at all. It allows us to choose when we think it is a good time. Rather then having it arbitrarily chosen for us.

God ordained a cycle for a reason. It does not have to be arbitrary. The difference is one way is acting in concert with God’s will and one way is acting against His will.

Be fruitful and multiply? We’re 6 billion strong currently. I think we’ve multiplied more then enough

You claim this is enough based on what authority?

 

[contramundum7]

No, I referred to the forgiveness of sins–particularly through the sacrament of confession. Someone who commits a mortal sin should repent, confess and reform. Dying in a state of mortal sin leads to damnation, but not everyone who commits a mortal sin dies in that state.

But you brought up the point out that some sins which are of themselves objectively mortal sins may not be “mortal sins leading to damnation” under certain circumstances if done without “full knowledge” or “deliberate consent”. Still, I think any Catholic commiting objective mortal sins should go to the sacrament of confession. (I’m a fan of confession, and I think we should go regularly even if not in a state of mortal sin.)

Amen to that last thing in particular… So many people go to Communion but very few go to Confession any more… You can’t tell me no one NEEDS to, not in this R-rated day and age… (I don’t even watch TV /movies and i need to go to confession often… ). OK, maybe not every week, but now that i think about it, i DID used to go every week… I miss the graces i received, so thanks for reminding me. I think i will resume that habit…

 

[contramundum7]

Wrong. It makes it neither dysfunctional or unhealthy in most cases. Usually the uterus continues to truck along as always, it is just fooled into thinking the cycle is at it’s end. (ie: No lining)

There are many more things then just our uterus that makes us women.

I don’t view it that way at all. It allows us to choose when we think it is a good time. Rather then having it arbitrarily chosen for us.

Be fruitful and multiply? We’re 6 billion strong currently. I think we’ve multiplied more then enough

We are NOT overpopulated. Most countries in the world are now at Zero Population growth and plummeting… Japan had abortion on demand b4 we did. After 20 years, they had to ship in labor from Korea…
We are going to pay for all this sterilization-birth-control-abortion nonsense… We already ARE paying. Not only women but the whole country is suffering from Post Abortion Syndrome…
I walk by playgrounds all the time… There are no children playing there… and this at all times of the day… I go to Church, there are so few children there… Even Catholics don’t have any more than 2 or 3 children these days… In China they can’t… (One Child Policy).
But it makes sense: The devil hates humans… and he wants us to hate one another (so far, he is getting what he wants)… Satan hates the family. He wants people to use birth control so they will begin to think of each other as objects of pleasure rather than whole human beings…

 

[Imryl]

How is it good to alter a healthy organ to make it act as it was not intended to act? The “pill” alone has many negative side effects.

It is neither good nor bad. Yes there are side effects. But there’s also side effects for eating fating food or speeding without regard to others.

Does intentionally supressing fertility make a woman more of a woman?

It doesn’t make them any less of a women either.

You claim this is enough based on what authority?

Common sense. Unless we suddenly grow gills and flippers there’s going to be much larger problems. But I suppose you’re right. We should leave problems such as that for our grandchildren to deal with.

And you’re right, I do believe Japan’s population is declining.

<> Removed an unnecessary comment.

 

[fix]

It is neither good nor bad. Yes there are side effects. But there’s also side effects for eating fating food or speeding without regard to others.

The analogies do not work. Speeding is wrong. Eating fatty foods, in moderation, is not unhealthy. Using contraceptive pills as prescribed is unhealthy and unnantural.

It doesn’t make them any less of a women either.

It certainly is intentionally diminishing a part of being a woman. It is the same for a man. It is not consistent with our dignity as persons.

Common sense. Unless we suddenly grow gills and flippers there’s going to be much larger problems. But I suppose you’re right. We should leave problems such as that for our grandchildren to deal with.

The problem is not too many people. The problem is greed, selfishness, and materialism.

 

[Cari]

Common sense. Unless we suddenly grow gills and flippers there’s going to be much larger problems. But I suppose you’re right. We should leave problems such as that for our grandchildren to deal with.
.

Some websites to check out about the overpopulation myth

jefflindsay.com/Overpop.shtml
enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0500overpopulation.htm
reason.com/news/show/34848.html

I know your comment about leaving “problems such as that for our grandchildren to deal with” was not made in earnest, but in light of the war on children than secular culture wages, I sincerely pray that there ARE grandchildren around when the time comes.

 

[Imryl]

The analogies do not work. Speeding is wrong. Eating fatty foods, in moderation, is not unhealthy. Using contraceptive pills as prescribed is unhealthy and unnantural.

Actually they do, they’re both just as dangerous and just as unhealthy as contraception. My main point here, was not really to debate whether or not it was permitted. It was a response to someone’s claim that these things make your uterus dysfunctional or unhealthy. From experience, I know this is untrue. I encourage you to at least do some research before making baseless claims such as these. (Pointed at no one (name removed by moderator)articular, certainly not you Fix, just a general rule.)

I’m not saying that there haven’t been cases where problems have occured, just that such complications are very rare.

It certainly is intentionally diminishing a part of being a woman. It is the same for a man. It is not consistent with our dignity as persons.

In your humble opinion maybe. I certainly don’t see it that way at all. There’s nothing wrong with exerting a little control now in then.

Question…

Does this mean you would refuse to take medication prescribed by your physician? Say - if it was to bring down your cholestrol or thin your blood? Those medications have risks and also alter your natural physiology. Would that some how bring into question your dignity?

I’m going to assume you’re not a woman, and if you are… then you’ve never suffered debilitating pain for days on end due to menstration. For me it’s not just about avoiding an unwanted pregnancy, it’s about relief. It’s not everyones reasoning, but it’s a different perspective.

Yes I do realize we’ve gone thousands of years without this to relieve our discomfort. That doesn’t change the fact that we have the ability to do it now, and much like an epidural I welcome it with arms wide open.

The problem is not too many people. The problem is greed, selfishness, and materialism.

It’s all those things. In my humble opinion.

I know your comment about leaving “problems such as that for our grandchildren to deal with” was not made in earnest

Actually I was quite serious. Overpopulation is quite real in many parts of the world. I believe many things are treated as out of sight, out of mind.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Be fruitful and multiply? We’re 6 billion strong currently. I think we’ve multiplied more then enough

Just an observation: when people bring up “over population” they bring that up as a reason to use contraception. No one (or perhaps only a few) ever uses “over population” as a reason to stop medical research that might pro-long life. No one ever says, “Gee, those vaccinations that eliminated small pox caused over-population.”

They seem to forget that the population of Europe was significantly reduced by the Black Plague. They seem to forget that a modern bomb could wipe out a multitude of people. If too many people is a “problem”, there are many evil ways of dealing with that–and contraception is just one of those evil things. Famine, disease, war, plagues–those are other ways in which the earth’s human population could be reduced.

 

[Imryl]

Just an observation: when people bring up “over population” they bring that up as a reason to use contraception.

It is a reason for using it, not thee reason.

They seem to forget that a modern bomb could wipe out a multitude of people. If too many people is a “problem”, there are many evil ways of dealing with that

I’m not saying there aren’t more effective ways of bringing the population down a few notches, but this is much easier for most people to swallow.

No pun intended of course.

 

[Cari]

My main point here, was not really to debate whether or not it was permitted. It was a response to someone’s claim that these things make your uterus dysfunctional or unhealthy. From experience, I know this is untrue. I encourage you to at least do some research before making baseless claims such as these. .

***American Heritage Dictionary
dys·func·tion also dis·func·tion n. Abnormal or impaired functioning, especially of a bodily system or social group.

---

How then, does b/c NOT make one’s uterus “dysfunctional”? It certainly impairs its biological functioning. And, through the chemical alteration, it becomes abnormal (Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) ab·nor·mal –adjective 1.not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard) And, as for making it unhealthy, I would say that causing the lining of the uterus to be chemically thinned to the point that implantation of an embryo is impossible is unhealthy- certainly to the baby in question. And as for the health factor of the woman:

Less Common Serious Health Complications
Blood clots in legs, lungs, heart or brain
Stroke
Liver tumors (rare)
Heart attacks
Gallstones (rare)
Jaundice (rare)
Possibly cervical cancer

(from epigee.org/guide/medfaq.html#sideeffects a site that is not anti-birth control)

With all due respect, what you claim as experience does not equal medical fact.

C

 

[Imryl]

***American Heritage Dictionary
dys·func·tion also dis·func·tion n. Abnormal or impaired functioning, especially of a bodily system or social group.

---

How then, does b/c NOT make one’s uterus “dysfunctional”? It certainly impairs its biological functioning. And, through the chemical alteration, it becomes abnormal (Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) ab·nor·mal –adjective 1.not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard)

Alright. I’ll explain how the one I use works. IUD. In my case, my uterus continues on with it’s daily 30day cycle. The only difference is I have a small device that has medication on it. It slowly releases the same chemical that my body produces when it’s ready to shed the lining. Thus the lining never develops. How does this in anyway alter the inner workings of my uterus? The only difference is the lining isn’t there, but the uterus continues to work as intended.

That doesn’t mean it’s dysfunctioning in anyway… infact it’s acting exactly as predicted.

Less Common Serious Health Complications
Blood clots in legs, lungs, heart or brain
Stroke
Liver tumors (rare)
Heart attacks
Gallstones (rare)
Jaundice (rare)
Possibly cervical cancer

I think we’re all very aware of what the possible complications are with BCPs. Unless of course you’ve been living under a rock the last few years.

Like I said. I am aware there are complications, but they’re very rare and the same thing can be said about any other medication.

With all due respect, I never claimed that my experience equated to medical fact.

 

[mike182d]

Wrong. It makes it neither dysfunctional or unhealthy in most cases. Usually the uterus continues to truck along as always, it is just fooled into thinking the cycle is at it’s end. (ie: No lining)

Do you have a regular cycle on the pill? Can you conceive on the pill? No. Therefore, the pill has rendered the woman’s uterus dysfunctional. A normal “functioning” woman ovulates, has regular periods, etc. If a woman not on the pill experienced the same symptoms, medical science would say there’s a problem. Being on a chemical doesn’t change that fact.

There are many more things then just our uterus that makes us women.

Everything about the woman’s body is *built *around the uterus. Everything from hormones to how the woman’s body operates centers around her reproductive organs.

This is simply biology. By definition, your reproductive organs define your sex/gender.

I don’t view it that way at all. It allows us to choose when we think it is a good time. Rather then having it arbitrarily chosen for us.

Doesn’t matter if you’re consciously thinking that or not, its there. The divorce rate amongst couples who practice natural family planning is less than 3% - compared to the 50% of contracepting couples. If someone slipped poison in your drink, ignorance of the poison being there doesn’t kill you any slower.

Be fruitful and multiply? We’re 6 billion strong currently. I think we’ve multiplied more then enough

Do you think you are one person too many? Or do you mean *other *people besides yourself?

You did not create yourself. You had no choice over whether or not you would be born. And yet, its amazing how people who have received this marvelous gift without cost are so adamant about denying it from others.

 

[mike182d]

Actually they do, they’re both just as dangerous and just as unhealthy as contraception.

I didn’t know fatty foods acted as an abortifacient. That’s news to me…

 

[mike182d]

Alright. I’ll explain how the one I use works. IUD. In my case, my uterus continues on with it’s daily 30day cycle. The only difference is I have a small device that has medication on it. It slowly releases the same chemical that my body produces when it’s ready to shed the lining. Thus the lining never develops. How does this in anyway alter the inner workings of my uterus? The only difference is the lining isn’t there, but the uterus continues to work as intended.

That’s not contraception, that’s an abortifacient. Contraception intends to “prevent” conception. An IUD does no such thing. It creates, as you said, an inhospitable environment for a conceived child to implant and grow in.

Apples and oranges, but still not any better morally.

That doesn’t mean it’s dysfunctioning in anyway… infact it’s acting exactly as predicted.

Predictability has nothing to do with functionality. I could predict that cutting off someone’s tongue would keep them from speaking but it does not follow that me being correct in my assertion has in any way lessened the dysfunctional nature of a mouth without a tongue.

 

[Cari]

Alright. I’ll explain how the one I use works. IUD. In my case, my uterus continues on with it’s daily 30day cycle. The only difference is I have a small device that has medication on it. It slowly releases the same chemical that my body produces when it’s ready to shed the lining. Thus the lining never develops. How does this in anyway alter the inner workings of my uterus? The only difference is the lining isn’t there, but the uterus continues to work as intended.

That doesn’t mean it’s dysfunctioning in anyway… infact it’s acting exactly as predicted.
.

From Wikipedia, entry "uterus"
The main function of the uterus is to accept a fertilized ovum which becomes implanted into the endometrium, and derives nourishment from blood vessels which develop exclusively for this purpose

from dictionary.com, entry “uterus”:
u·ter·us n- the enlarged, muscular, expandable portion of the oviduct in which the fertilized ovum implants and develops or rests during prenatal development; the womb of certain mammals.

from: cancernorth.nhs.uk/cancertypes/Uteruswomb/Whereistheuterusandwhatdoesitdo

Where is the uterus and what does it do?
*The uterus is a body organ found in a woman’s pelvis, above the vagina. Another name for it is the womb.
The uterus is where a woman’s egg, fertilised by male sperm, grows into a baby. Each month the lining of the uterus thickens in readiness for this.
Each month one of the ovaries releases an egg, which travels down one of the fallopian tubes to the uterus.
If the egg isn’t fertilised, the thickened lining of the uterus breaks down and leaves the body. This is what is happening when a woman has her monthly period.
The wall of the uterus is made of a thick layer of muscle called the myometrium. The lining of the inside of the uterus is called the endometrium.
*
from babycenter.com, entry "How does an IUD work?"
*Both types of IUDs work primarily by preventing sperm from fertilizing an egg. They do this in a few different ways. First, they stimulate an inflammatory response in the uterus, causing changes that damage or kill sperm and that may damage an egg as well. In the unlikely event that an egg does get fertilized and survives, an IUD makes it harder for it to implant in the uterus.

The progestin IUD may also thicken cervical mucus, making it more difficult for the sperm to enter the uterus. In addition, the progestin may keep some women from ovulating.
Now, running searches on the Internet, I find that there are three IUDs available in the United States, only one, Paraguard, operates without hormones. The Paraguard website doesn’t readily explain how it DOES work, so I’ve sent away for more info on it.

Regardless, an IUD interferes with the normal workings of your uterus. A uterus forms lining to nuture embryos. If no embryo implants, the lining is shed. Just because one still has a period doesn’t mean one’s uterus is functioning normally. Your IUD, as you explain, emits a chemical to impair the creation of a lining. This is not what a normal, functioning uterus does, otherwise, you wouldn’t need chemicals to do it.

I fear, however, that we’ve hijacked the thread.

 

[Imryl]

Do you have a regular cycle on the pill?

Yes. I just don’t bleed, if I need to be that blunt about it.

Can you conceive on the pill?

No.

Therefore, the pill has rendered the woman’s uterus dysfunctional.

I’m ging to write this particular argument as a lost cause. Your exactly right about the definition. But I don’t see anything dysfunctional about it when the result you get is what you expected. Difference of opinion there and neither of us are going to convince the other.

Being on a chemical doesn’t change that fact.

Actually it does. Otherwise they’d be admitting several million woman to the hospital.

This is simply biology. By definition, your reproductive organs define your sex/gender.

Yes, however I am not simply a uterus walking around on two legs.

Doesn’t matter if you’re consciously thinking that or not, its there. The divorce rate amongst couples who practice natural family planning is less than 3% - compared to the 50% of contracepting couples.

Seriously, what exactly is the point of this statement? No, I’m not being sarcastic or rude.

Do you think you are one person too many? Or do you mean *other *people besides yourself?

As a matter of fact I believe i’m one person added to far to many in the first place. But, I am here… and I do enjoy myself.

its amazing how people who have received this marvelous gift without cost are so adamant about denying it from others.

That is the wonderful thing about the United States. We get to make decisions about our own bodies.

<> You’re right, we have hijacked this thread… so I’m going to stop posting. I apologize

 

[mike182d]

Yes. I just don’t bleed, if I need to be that blunt about it.

If you’re not bleeding, you’re not having a “regular” cycle. A regular cycle entails periods.

I’m ging to write this particular argument as a lost cause. Your exactly right about the definition. But I don’t see anything dysfunctional about it when the result you get is what you expected. Difference of opinion there and neither of us are going to convince the other.

This isn’t a “difference of opinion” as I have not expressed something I believe to be true, personally. I’ve simply stated logic. If I cut my hand off, my hand has become dysfunctional regardless of whether or not I intended to do it. Function has to do with the inherent purpose of a mechanism, not one’s intended misuse of it.

Actually it does. Otherwise they’d be admitting several million woman to the hospital.

No they wouldn’t because their condition is self-induced and easily remedied. It doesn’t require a doctor to take a woman off the pill.

Yes, however I am not simply a uterus walking around on two legs.

I never said you were.

Seriously, what exactly is the point of this statement? No, I’m not being sarcastic or rude.

The point of that statement is: since the introduction of contraceptives, adultery, rape, abortion, and divorce have skyrocketed. The shift is too significant, statistically, to be considered coincidence.

No one consciously tries to destroy their relationship with contraceptives, but it happens. Contraception tears away at the very heart of a relationship: sincere intimacy.

As a matter of fact I believe i’m one person added to far to many in the first place. But, I am here… and I do enjoy myself.

If there were far too many people in the first place, do you think you shouldn’t have been born?

That is the wonderful thing about the United States. We get to make decisions about our own bodies.

Could you show me where that’s stated in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution?

Both assert that we were ordained with inalienable rights by the Creator. Freedom is not something we created, it is something God gave us. Thus, it is a fallacy to believe that you have the freedom to do whatever *you *want. Rather, the Founding Fathers correctly state the true freedom is the liberty to live rightly or as *God wants *since He is the author of our freedoms in the first place.

If you disagree with the Founding Fathers and hold the God isn’t the source of our freedom and rights, then you disagree with the very principle America was founded upon.

You’re right, we have hijacked this thread… so I’m going to stop posting. I apologize

The thread has not been hijacked in the least. All of these issues point to why contraception is not “our choice for our bodies” but a sin that greatly affects society. The implications of contraceptive use are more far reaching than you give it credit for.

As such, no person using contraceptives can receive holy communion.

 

[isadora]

As for the second part, about being “doomed to hell”, only God knows a person’s heart. Only God knows who is going where, it’s not for us to speculate.

I’m not trying to speculate on anything. Is it or is it not a teaching of the church that a person who dies with a mortal sin on his/her soul goes to hell? And if the church also teaches that using contraception is a mortal sin, well then, it seems logical that anyone who uses contraception and doesn’t repent from it goes to hell, no?

As for Protestants and mortal sin, the Church teaches us that three conditions must be met:

1. grave matter
2. knowledge
3. free will

In the case of a Protestant using birth control, two of those conditions would (assumably) be met- grave matter and free will. However, most Protestant denominations do not teach that birth control is evil, and so the knowledge part would be missing.

If, on the other hand, a Protestant whose religious expression includes a rejection of abortion as a sin, and then learns about the abortifacient nature of many forms of b/c and continues to take it, then yes, I would think it would become a mortal sin on the part of that person.

Anyone else want to weigh in? Did I miss anything?

So just to clarify, if a Protestant or a non-Christian is *aware *of the Catholic teaching about contraception, but chooses to follow the teachings of his own religion instead, then the use of contraception (assuming non-abortifacient type) is *not *a mortal sin?

 

[mike182d]

well then, it seems logical that anyone who uses contraception and doesn’t repent from it goes to hell, no?

Well, technically. The operative word is “repentence.” Since we do not know what transpired the moment someone using contraceptives died, we cannot say for sure what the state of their heart was - unless any person here has been made privy to the final judgement.

But, I know what you’re saying and, technically, its true.