Why is convalidation of marriage so difficult?

[whatevergirl]

Providing proof of baptism, and confirmation, etc…is very customary, though. And I misplaced my daughter’s baptismal certificate, and I needed a copy from the original parish, (this was when we lived in FL the first time) and I just picked up the phone, talked to the office manager, and she sent me my daughter’s certificate. I don’t know why you are having such a tough time…like why it needs to be in writing for you to obtain your documentation of prior Sacraments. I’m so sorry, I hope that things smooth out for you. Please, if it ends up taking 6 months, so be it. It is so worth having your marriage convalidated, trust me…my husband and I are so grateful that we did not dismiss the opportunity to do so. I will pray for you guys. :hug1:

 

[psr13]

I will say that at least you can get a hold of the parish that has the records. DH was baptized in the countryside of the Philippines, and we can’t even find the number for the entire diocese let alone the church.

 

[Koneko]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Most of them were very helpful, especially whatevergirl, Joannm, Corki, and Sarabande. Thank you NewEnglandPries for offering to answer via private msg.

“Yet, you don’t want to jump through the hoops other couples do.”
I think there is some misunderstanding here.

My original question was not why do we need the certs “at all”. It was why do we need them if we can access the information electronically. I understand the reasons for this now.

We are not opposed to going through a process to enter into a sacramental marriage. Obtaining forms, attending Pre-Cana (whether we learn anything or not) are not a big deal. Honestly I am kind of looking forward to a spirtual afternoon alone with my wife away from the kids.

We are opposed to doing things that are NOT required by other couples and doing things that we feel are unnecessary. Paying a ton of money, having interviews with people, having children and being celibate for 6 months, and having a marriage by two Catholics approved by the arch diocese are all things that I feel are unnecessary and not normal.

So, I met with a random priest from random parish by my house. I think the Holy Spirit helped me to find him. This man was so nice and understanding and he has had much experience in this. It was like he was giving me the answers and asking questions before I even told him my circumstance. I think it is the sign of a good priest who tries to understand your situation, and minimizes your struggle. As I thought, the process is very easy.

He told me this:

1. Pre Cana and the certificates are a must. Being celibate is necessary.
2. Being married 20 years and especially having 3 children is a testimony to our devotion to each other. No interviews, affidavits, or permission from the Arch Diocese are needed. We need 4 witnesses. He was puzzled by the other priest’s requests (and he knows him). My wife and I are actually giving the sacrament to each other. The priest is just a witness and makes sure it is done properly.
3. We should attend Pre Cana ASAP. We should receive the sacrament of marriage ASAP.
4. With permission from my parish he can marry us any time after we get the paper work.
5. A small short ceremony is fine and usual.
6. The whole proess is FREE of charge.
7. If everything goes smoothly, we will be married within 2 months.

I don’t like to “backstab” people and I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I thought everything was clear at our meetings, but some of the responses here make me feel like there may be a misunderstanding between my parish priest and me. I’m going to meet with him again to make sure there were no misunderstandings.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Good luck with this process. My son and his wife got their marriage convalidated. I wasn’t involved in the process at all, and really didn’t know it was so involved. I got to hand to you for sticking with it. I suppose it depends on how much you want it. I got baptismal certificates for both my son’s and a brother. I had no trouble at all with my son’s. I had contacted the diocese about where I might find my brother’s the church he was baptized in no longer existed. In the meantime I did my own search and found it! They sent it to me. Right before I received it in the mail the bishop of the diocese actually called me and wanted to know why I needed it. he told me they just didn’t send them out for any old reason. I told him I found it and it was being sent. He didn’t sound too happy about that. It was upon my mother’s request that I do it as she is always praying for my brother’s marriage to be convalidated and she wanted his certificate just in case. God bless my Mom we both pray very hard for my brother’s conversion.

Peace to you and your marriage.

 

[Phemie]

the bishop of the diocese actually called me and wanted to know why I needed it. he told me they just didn’t send them out for any old reason. I told him I found it and it was being sent. He didn’t sound too happy about that. It was upon my mother’s request that I do it as she is always praying for my brother’s marriage to be convalidated and she wanted his certificate just in case. God bless my Mom we both pray very hard for my brother’s conversion.

Peace to you and your marriage.

It’s true that certificates of baptism are not usually issued for no reason. Our bishop has said “for sacramental purposes only”. Unfortunately, in our diocese many of the native people are not registered with vital statistics and the only proof of their existence is in our baptismal registers. That’s why when they need proof of age or parenthood they come to us and we have to oblige or risk denying them vital government services.

As for having your son’s certificate in case he decides to have his marriage convalidated, well, you’d better hope he decides soon because the certificate will be useless in about 6 months. For marriage the Church requires an up to date certificate, not only to verify that you are baptized & confirmed but also to see if any marriage is recorded. A lot can happen in 6 months.

 

[FastLearner]

I don’t like to “backstab” people and I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I thought everything was clear at our meetings, but some of the responses here make me feel like there may be a misunderstanding between my parish priest and me. I’m going to meet with him again to make sure there were no misunderstandings.

Did you make it clear that you want a small ceremony with just a few people, not necessarily in the church (in the chapel or another area of the church building)? It sounds like you were “quoted” the procedures and pricing for a big church wedding.

 

[ElizabethPH]

It’s true that certificates of baptism are not usually issued for no reason. Our bishop has said “for sacramental purposes only”. Unfortunately, in our diocese many of the native people are not registered with vital statistics and the only proof of their existence is in our baptismal registers. That’s why when they need proof of age or parenthood they come to us and we have to oblige or risk denying them vital government services.

As for having your son’s certificate in case he decides to have his marriage convalidated, well, you’d better hope he decides soon because the certificate will be useless in about 6 months. For marriage the Church requires an up to date certificate, not only to verify that you are baptized & confirmed but also to see if any marriage is recorded. A lot can happen in 6 months.

The Bishop did not explain this in his phone call. Had he I would have understood better.
And if I had of known I would not have bothered. I did all this upon my mother’s request. And I just wanted to mention here how easy it was for me to abtain baptismal certificates

Thanks so much of course it makes perfect sense.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

A word of caution:

Satan wants you to think this is not worth it. Not only can he keep you in his grip, but your children will never see the importance of a Catholic marriage.

More than one couple has convalidated their marriage only to have problems pop up that they never had before. Satan will not be happy with what you are doing. You need to remember that in the coming years. This is a time for you to strengthen your prayer and faith lives. You, like others, may come under attack for fixing things and going down this new path.

Good luck!

 

[rayne89]

It shouldn’t be difficult. We were married 13 years outside of the church. We needed our baptism certificates and to fill out a relatively short form. We had a short interview with our priest. Paper work was sent to the archdiocese - 6 weeks later our marriage was convalidated. Why on earth would you need affidavits? I don’t remember any cost at all -if there was it was nominal. We did give a stipend to the priest after the ceremony. You are not getting annulments so why affidavits and multiple interviews and such a huge cost? None of that makes any sense. I would contact the (arch)diocese directly and start asking questions.

 

[Phemie]

It shouldn’t be difficult. We were married 13 years outside of the church. We needed our baptism certificates and to fill out a relatively short form. We had a short interview with our priest. Paper work was sent to the archdiocese - 6 weeks later our marriage was convalidated. Why on earth would you need affidavits? I don’t remember any cost at all -if there was it was nominal. We did give a stipend to the priest after the ceremony. You are not getting annulments so why affidavits and multiple interviews and such a huge cost? None of that makes any sense. I would contact the (arch)diocese directly and start asking questions.

It all depends on the diocese (Archdiocese). More and more they use affidavits rather than banns to make sure that the couple is free to marry in the Church and that needs to be checked out whether you’re been in a legal marriage 20 years or are coming to the Church for your first and only marriage ceremony.

Our priest was livid that a mom had to fill out an affidavit for her daughter who was marrying in a distant diocese until it was explained to him that this was in lieu of banns that would have meant nothing in the far-away parish where bride’s history was unknown by most parishioners.

 

[rayne89]

It all depends on the diocese (Archdiocese). More and more they use affidavits rather than banns to make sure that the couple is free to marry in the Church and that needs to be checked out whether you’re been in a legal marriage 20 years or are coming to the Church for your first and only marriage ceremony.

Our priest was livid that a mom had to fill out an affidavit for her daughter who was marrying in a distant diocese until it was explained to him that this was in lieu of banns that would have meant nothing in the far-away parish where bride’s history was unknown by most parishioners.

Ahh…we were married outside the church at the age of 18/19. Our marriage license would show that. The chances of us being married before that would have been highly unlikely -maybe that’s why we didn’t need it. Although we were asked that question on the form we filled out.

 

[Brooklyn]

I have no idea why you have to go through so much to have your marriage convalidated. My husband and I each had to get out baptismal ceritficates and our marriage certificate, that was the only paperwork required. We met with the priest once, who took our information as far as what churches we were baptized in and confirmed in and when, when we were married, and a few other questions. And 2 weeks later on a Wednesday afternoon, in front of the Blessed Sacrament, the priest convalidated our marriage in front of 2 witnesses. That was all there was to it, nothing to pay for.

I would check with another church and see if it is the same throughout your diocese. This just doesn’t seem right to me.

Mary

Edit: Just to add, our marriage was convalidated by Fr. George Rutler, and you don’t get any more orthodox and by the book than Fr. Rutler. I don’t know why you are having to jump through so many hoops.

 

[Phemie]

Ahh…we were married outside the church at the age of 18/19. Our marriage license would show that. The chances of us being married before that would have been highly unlikely -maybe that’s why we didn’t need it. Although we were asked that question on the form we filled out.

The same pre-nuptial investigation is done for convalidations as for regular weddings since the same requirements are there. In former years, when people stuck close to the parish where they were baptized, the publication of banns with “if anyone knows of a reason why these two shouldn’t be married please inform the parish” was sufficient to insure that a previous marriage, a close kinship, etc would be made known to the priest. That’s not the case today when the couple is often unknown to the priest and to the parish at large – even if they attend Mass every Sunday.

 

[rayne89]

The same pre-nuptial investigation is done for convalidations as for regular weddings since the same requirements are there. In former years, when people stuck close to the parish where they were baptized, the publication of banns with “if anyone knows of a reason why these two shouldn’t be married please inform the parish” was sufficient to insure that a previous marriage, a close kinship, etc would be made known to the priest. That’s not the case today when the couple is often unknown to the priest and to the parish at large – even if they attend Mass every Sunday.

We were brand new to the parish so our priest didn’t know us. In fact our previous parish (the one I grew up in) where my husband went the RCIA process 7 years earlier didn’t even tell us we needed convalidation -and they knew we were married outside the church. My husband was received into the church even though we weren’t even validly married. Crazy but true. All I know was convalidation was pretty painless for us.

 

[Brooklyn]

We were brand new to the parish so our priest didn’t know us. In fact our previous parish (the one I grew up in) where my husband went the RCIA process 7 years earlier didn’t even tell us we needed convalidation -and they knew we were married outside the church. My husband was received into the church even though we weren’t even validly married. Crazy but true. All I know was convalidation was pretty painless for us.

No one told us about convalidation either when we came back to the Church. I only found out through this forum!

 

[JC_Nixon]

We went through the convalidation process and were so happy to even get that far (had to wait for an annulment first, long but awesome story) that we didn’t care what we had to do for the convalidation, just so that we could have our marriage blessed in the Church.

We had to attend a ‘convalidation workshop’ which makes much more sense than pre-cana, the situation is different. We also had to do a FOCCUS, get original baptismal certs, and meet with our priest a couple of time, whole thing took about 4 months, I think the only cost was the fee for the workshop and that was nominal. The FOCCUS was really great, it just reaffirmed for us why we were married in the first place! Seriously, you might be surprised to find an area that you differ in (even after 20 years) that might bear some discussion.

Have you never heard of people married 25, 30 or more years getting a divorce? Just because you have been married 20 years is no guarantee. The Church is just trying to ensure that this is a sacramental marriage. As it stands now the Church does not consider you married, hence the requirement of celibacy (contrary to an earlier post, it is also defined as ‘abstinence from sexual intercourse’, not just ‘the condition of being unmarried’).

Once we had met the requirements, we had our marriage blessed after a weekday morning Mass (we attend Mass daily). It was kind of neat, there was a group of people who normally stayed after Mass to pray the rosary, so they listened quietly to our renewal of vows and then offered their daily rosary for us!

You have waited and worked for 20 years to reach this moment, don’t be discouraged, just accept it a little test of faith and tenacity. You will both be so glad that you persevered. God bless you both!

 

[Koneko]

We talked to our parish priest and told him that we don’t have a lot of money and we will only invite the 2 witnesses. We want something small and quiet. We also said that we’d like to have the wedding as soon as possible.

He told us this

1. $425 for the church is mandatory. (tips for the priest and alter servers are appreciated)
2. Minimum wait of 6 months. Year is better.
3. Four people that know us must come in and be interviewed by the priest.
4. FOCCUS, pre cana, NFP classes are all mandatory and cost money.
5. Must get permission from the arch diocese to get married. Minimum of two months wait once all the classes, interviews, and paperwork are complete.

I told him I don’t make a lot of money. He said if we don’t pay, then we can’t get married. He cannot waive the fee for us or he would have to do it for everyone. I’ve always hated the idea of “pay to pray”. I hope this is not the standard for the Catholic Church. I told him again that this is not what we want. He was very adamant that we do things this way.

Not sure what we’re going to do from here. It’s not the difficulty that bothers me. The process just doesn’t seem right.

 

[rayne89]

We talked to our parish priest and told him that we don’t have a lot of money and we will only invite the 2 witnesses. We want something small and quiet. We also said that we’d like to have the wedding as soon as possible.

He told us this

1. $425 for the church is mandatory. (tips for the priest and alter servers are appreciated)
2. Minimum wait of 6 months. Year is better.
3. Four people that know us must come in and be interviewed by the priest.
4. FOCCUS, pre cana, NFP classes are all mandatory and cost money.
5. Must get permission from the arch diocese to get married. Minimum of two months wait once all the classes, interviews, and paperwork are complete.

I told him I don’t make a lot of money. He said if we don’t pay, then we can’t get married. He cannot waive the fee for us or he would have to do it for everyone. I’ve always hated the idea of “pay to pray”. I hope this is not the standard for the Catholic Church. I told him again that this is not what we want. He was very adamant that we do things this way.

Not sure what we’re going to do from here. It’s not the difficulty that bothers me. The process just doesn’t seem right.

Honestly I would check a different parish at this point or contact your diocese directly and explain your situation. A marriage can be done during a regular Mass for one thing. That should not cost anything since a Mass is already going on. I have never, ever heard of such a cost for convalidation. We were not charged anything, we gave the priest a stipend and also something to the organist (not that we were advised to do so)-and we had a private convalidation with about 30 guests.Did he actually use the word “tip”? Good grief.

It is true you must get permission from the diocese to marry. We were advised it would take about 2 months but the ok actually came back sooner. We had already taken an NFP class a several years earlier (but we weren’t asked if we had as far as I can remember although I think in conversation we did mention we used NFP), and we did not have to take a foccus test or do precana. We just met with our priest, he didn’t feel it was necessary since we were already “married” 13 years.

 

[Seatuck]

We talked to our parish priest and told him that we don’t have a lot of money and we will only invite the 2 witnesses. We want something small and quiet. We also said that we’d like to have the wedding as soon as possible.

He told us this

1. $425 for the church is mandatory. (tips for the priest and alter servers are appreciated)
2. Minimum wait of 6 months. Year is better.
3. Four people that know us must come in and be interviewed by the priest.
4. FOCCUS, pre cana, NFP classes are all mandatory and cost money.
5. Must get permission from the arch diocese to get married. Minimum of two months wait once all the classes, interviews, and paperwork are complete.

I told him I don’t make a lot of money. He said if we don’t pay, then we can’t get married. He cannot waive the fee for us or he would have to do it for everyone. I’ve always hated the idea of “pay to pray”. I hope this is not the standard for the Catholic Church. I told him again that this is not what we want. He was very adamant that we do things this way.

Not sure what we’re going to do from here. It’s not the difficulty that bothers me. The process just doesn’t seem right.

I rarely say this but try another parish. I don’t think the classes etc are unfair with the rate of divorce etc being so high but the fees for the marriage don’t seem right.

 

[maryjk]

We talked to our parish priest and told him that we don’t have a lot of money and we will only invite the 2 witnesses. We want something small and quiet. We also said that we’d like to have the wedding as soon as possible.

He told us this

1. $425 for the church is mandatory. (tips for the priest and alter servers are appreciated)
2. Minimum wait of 6 months. Year is better.
3. Four people that know us must come in and be interviewed by the priest.
4. FOCCUS, pre cana, NFP classes are all mandatory and cost money.
5. Must get permission from the arch diocese to get married. Minimum of two months wait once all the classes, interviews, and paperwork are complete.

I told him I don’t make a lot of money. He said if we don’t pay, then we can’t get married. He cannot waive the fee for us or he would have to do it for everyone. I’ve always hated the idea of “pay to pray”. I hope this is not the standard for the Catholic Church. I told him again that this is not what we want. He was very adamant that we do things this way.

Not sure what we’re going to do from here. It’s not the difficulty that bothers me. The process just doesn’t seem right.

It doesn’t seem right to me either.

I also had a convalidation. We had been married 11 years. All we gave to the priest was the name and town of our baptisms. We met with him once. The whole thing took 3 months. The fee was whatever my parents put in the envelope.

There was no pre-cana, no FOCCUS (whatever that is) and no affidavits. The priest told us that the bishop pretty much rubber stamps convalidations because once we as a couple want to be right with the Church, the bishop wants us to be as well.