Why is convalidation of marriage so difficult?

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Yes, it’s true that the OP is not validly married in the eyes of the Church or of God. But nonetheless, the OP has 20 years of marriage experience and 3 kids - that should definitely count for something. They’re hardly starry-eyed kids needing pre-marriage counseling. And that is why priests like Fr. Rutler, who convalidated my marriage, do not require counseling of such couples, and in fact, just want to get them validly married as soon as possible.

Mary

And each Bishop has the option of giving Pastors the ability to make these decisions and some do, each case is different. But the Church starts out with the same rules for everyone, and then make the necessary exceptions.

 

[Koneko]

I’m not calling your relationship a “technicality”. I see your approach to the convalidation as though it was only a technicality. Based on your comment that maybe it’s just not worth it. You are actually validly exchanging vows of Marriage for the first time.

We exchanged vows the first time we were married. They were plenty valid for us. I do understand however that we did not enter the sacrament of marriage.

Frankly we still wonder if the process is worth it and have not made a decision either way.

I have always and will forever question many things about my faith. I question whether God exists, is Catholicism the right religion for me, why is there suffering, when a priest tells me missing mass is not a sin is he correct, when a priest tells me the Catholic church needs women priests, is he correct, when a priest tells me he does not have time to talk to me because I am not a parishoner is he correct, when one priest tells me to live celibate and another says it is not necessary, which one is correct. You can give me the text book answer to these questions and I can understand them, but it doesn’t mean that I believe them. These are things I can only determine in my heart. If you do not question your faith, then you have a special gift from God that I do not possess. My understanding of the faith has been very cloudy and confusing over the years. Maybe I’ve been unlucky, but it is largely due to the priests I have talked to. It is not a matter of misunderstanding, but a matter of them having their own opinions which many I now know are contrary to the magisterium and catechism. This convalidation process has not helped this. This is exacerbated by the fact that many Catholics I have spoken to are very judgmental.

My wife and I continue to study every day to find the answers that we seek.

 

[Koneko]

Couples have been known to get divorced after many years of marriage and raising many children. The promises that a Catholic makes in marriage are different than those made by other christians and civil law. Counseling and education is prudent . We need to be educated and prepared for all the service sacraments. Getting someone validly married as soon as possible doesn’t seem like the prudent thing to do to me if there are impediments . Can’t find out if there are impediments unless some counseling and education is done. There is a seriously high rate of annulment petitions and grants in this country. Everything possible should be done to avoid it.

There is no debate whether counseling, and education is needed. The debate is to what level these are needed. I believe meeting with the priest and discussing things is the best way to find this out. In my case, “everything necessary” was decided before we sat down to talk to the priest the first time.

 

[Koneko]

Here is an example of a convalidation from Americancatholic.org

americancatholic.org/newsletters/cu/ac0604.asp

This is exactly what we experienced with our convalidation. You are all making this far more complicated and putting far more stress on the OP than the Church ever meant it to be.

Mary

Thank you for your posts, Mary. They have been a blessing and encouragement to us.

 

[Lost_Lamb]

I don’t have much advice, as we are going through the same thing. We’ve been married for four years and have two kids. Our last parish wouldn’t marry us until we went on a retreat in Florida. We’re in CALIFORNIA!! Not only do we have two kids, but there is no telling whether or not my husband would be able to go until that day. The Marine Corps isn’t always a “leave friendly” type of place. We’re hoping to be able to get the marriage blessed, but it seems next to impossible at this point. Good luck to you, and I hope it works out sooner rather than later!

 

[Koneko]

One thing that I forgot to mention is that when I told the priest that it is difficult for us to sleep in the same bed and remain celibate for 6 months to a year, he said, “Don’t worry about it. Just go to confession.” This also didn’t feel right to me. I’m thinking, ok in the meantime I’ll go perform a few abortions, smoke some crack, and worship some golden cows. I can confess those too. The whole celibacy thing was never even brought up by him. It was something that we discovered through our studying.

Most likely we will not talk to this priest again. We have made an appointment to speak with the other priest that I mentioned in one of my posts. He seemed like a very holy and understanding man who discussed my situation before making any decisions. When he told me I don’t have to pay for the church, I believed him. When he told me I did not need interviews, foccus, or permission from the diocese, 20 years of marriage and three kids proves our devotion to each other, I believed him. When he told me we should be married asap, I believed him. When he told me I needed paperwork and pre cana, I believed him, got the paperwork, and signed up for pre cana right away. When he told me it was necessary to remain celibate, I did not hesitate for a minute.

 

[TwoDachshunds]

Sounds much better. I wish you the best.

 

[TwoDachshunds]

Originally, Maria and Tony married in a swift civil ceremony not because of any burdensome Church restrictions but because of other factors. Their wish to have their marriage convalidated a decade later surfaced because of several reasons: a visit from their parish priest, their uncomfortable feeling in preparing others for marriage when they had not yet been married in the Church and their decision to start a family.

Those other factors being… selfishness? Lack of thought? They thought they had to have a “big Italian wedding” or no Catholic wedding at all?

Makes no sense.

 

[Sarabande]

One thing that I forgot to mention is that when I told the priest that it is difficult for us to sleep in the same bed and remain celibate for 6 months to a year, he said, “Don’t worry about it. Just go to confession.” This also didn’t feel right to me. I’m thinking, ok in the meantime I’ll go perform a few abortions, smoke some crack, and worship some golden cows. I can confess those too. The whole celibacy thing was never even brought up by him. It was something that we discovered through our studying.

Most likely we will not talk to this priest again. We have made an appointment to speak with the other priest that I mentioned in one of my posts. He seemed like a very holy and understanding man who discussed my situation before making any decisions. When he told me I don’t have to pay for the church, I believed him. When he told me I did not need interviews, foccus, or permission from the diocese, 20 years of marriage and three kids proves our devotion to each other, I believed him. When he told me we should be married asap, I believed him. When he told me I needed paperwork and pre cana, I believed him, got the paperwork, and signed up for pre cana right away. When he told me it was necessary to remain celibate, I did not hesitate for a minute.

Yes, that first priest… yikes. Definitely follow through with the other priest. I’m so sorry that you had to go through this.

Regarding your previous post… All of the holy and spiritual people in my life has always encouraged me to ask questions about our faith and I’m happy they did that. Mainly because, it makes you understand better what makes up your faith, religion and beliefs. There has never been a question for me of the existence of God. It was always just something I believed even though I can’t prove the existence - it’s just faith. BUT, for everything else that surrounding my faith, I always had questions. Intellectualizing my faith was important for me, because it allows me to understand what I do take on as merely “blind faith” and what I take on in terms of rationale and intellectualism. So, for me, asking questions has made my faith stronger - and I have a feeling that it will be/is probably the same for you.

I do hope you and your wife do not give up on the convalidation process. I think it will be worth it for the two of you in many different ways, especially spiritually, in the long run. God bless.

 

[Eris]

It doesn’t need to be this difficult. I was married for 6 years (one child) when I returned to the Church (I’d been away for 25 years.) Our child was 5, and I wanted her to be baptized. My husband is not baptized (even still) and we were not married in a church, we married at the courthouse. My priest said that it was obvious that we were committed to each other and didn’t need to go thru any classes. I got my baptismal certificate in a matter of days, we got permission from the Archbishop (a dispensation - disparity of cult), and even tho’ it was during Lent and my priest said they usually don’t do baptisms during Lent, he consented to convalidate our marriage and baptize our daughter at the same time as soon as we got all the paperwork (which was only a week or two, as I recall). We didn’t have to pay any fees, and I was too naive to realize I should have given a gift to the church (I didn’t, but since we support the parish and our daughter is now a 7th grader at our parish school, I think I’ve more than made up for it! ) I had two witnesses (our parish school principal and our parish secretary because we were new to the parish and I didn’t know anyone in the church) who both witnessed our convalidation and were godparents to our child. In other words, my priest did not treat us as any other couple coming to get married for the first time. My husband and I had known each other for 2 years prior to marriage, neither of us had been married before, and we were and are quite committed to each other (now having been married 13 years according to the civil court…7 years in the Church). It wasn’t just a technicality, it was the real deal and my priest acknowledged that. He didn’t saddle us with all those ridiculous restrictions that your original priest gave you. He didn’t even mention that we should be celibate until the convalidation (I didn’t find out about that until later when I started really researching my faith and am now an RCIA sponsor and teacher.) But even if he had mentioned it, it wouldn’t have been a great hardship…a couple of weeks at this point is no big deal to me, altho’ my husband would disagree! Anyway, I’m sorry you’ve had such a problem and I encourage you to keep trying. I see you are having many questions about your faith, and that’s not a bad thing - it spurred me to read and read and read and then read some more, and ask questions, and listen to shows like Catholic Answers and EWTN … and realize that people are sinners, even priests, and some have a poor grasp of their faith (even some priests!) and that just because the people are fallible, the Church is the one true Church established by Jesus and she holds the fullness of the faith. Things like suffering are questions that you may never fully understand (and smarter men and women than I have written volumes about it). Things like women priests are pretty easy for me - if Jesus wanted women priests, He’d have had women apostles - He certainly wasn’t shy about establishing what He wanted. He wasn’t following the norms of the times (read the Bread of Life discourse!) and He certainly could have given the Keys of the Kingdom to his mother Mary or to Mary Magdalene if He’d wanted to. So I don’t know why priests and nuns get so hung up on that, it’s so obvious. But anyway, you have lots of questions, and that is a great thing, because there are lots and lots of great books to read that will give you answers to think about. In the meantime, keep working on getting your marriage convalidated. If you are both baptized, marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic church, and the graces God gives you from this sacrament are many. My marriage is not sacramental, because of disparity of cult, but I still feel that God has blessed us - He brought us together before we were married in the Church, and He used that blessing to bring me back home. And I pray that some day He will bring my husband home, too…my husband is more Catholic than he thinks. So do not give up on your quest, and don’t give up on your faith because of a few confusing priests or nuns or even laity. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[Brooklyn]

It doesn’t need to be this difficult.

Amen and Amen!!

When a couple comes back to the Church and have been civilly married or married in a non-Catholic Church, they are already married in the eyes of society. They have already made a commitment to one another. The Church knows and understands this. It just needs to be made valid in the eyes of God and the Church.

BTW, if both are new converts, neither a cradle Catholic, and have been married in another Church, there is no need for convalidation. This is only for Catholics who have been baptized and confirmed and were not married in a Catholic church.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Amen and Amen!!

When a couple comes back to the Church and have been civilly married or married in a non-Catholic Church, they are already married in the eyes of society. They have already made a commitment to one another. The Church knows and understands this. It just needs to be made valid in the eyes of God and the Church.

BTW, if both are new converts, neither a cradle Catholic, and have been married in another Church, there is no need for convalidation. This is only for Catholics who have been baptized and confirmed and were not married in a Catholic church.

Just because a couple have have been civilly married or married in a non-Catholic Church or accepted as married in the eyes of society are they are not necessarly accepted as married by the Catholic Church.

 

[kage_ar]

When a couple comes back to the Church and have been civilly married or married in a non-Catholic Church, they are already married in the eyes of society. They have already made a commitment to one another. The Church knows and understands this. It just needs to be made valid in the eyes of God and the Church.

.

Your choice of words is interesting, it appears that marriage in the eyes of God and the Church is trivialized. That is the most important thing, it should be “they just need to make it valid in the eyes of society.”

 

[Phemie]

Amen and Amen!!

When a couple comes back to the Church and have been civilly married or married in a non-Catholic Church, they are already married in the eyes of society. They have already made a commitment to one another. The Church knows and understands this. It just needs to be made valid in the eyes of God and the Church.

BTW, if both are new converts, neither a cradle Catholic, and have been married in another Church, there is no need for convalidation. This is only for Catholics who have been baptized and confirmed and were not married in a Catholic church.

You still don’t seem to understand that just because they are legally married doesn’t mean they automatically are entitled to a Church marriage. That’s what the priest has to discern.

 

[Seatuck]

You still don’t seem to understand that just because they are legally married doesn’t mean they automatically are entitled to a Church marriage. That’s what the priest has to discern.

Right just because a couple is committed to each other in a civil sense it does not automatically follow that they will be committed to marriage in the sacramental sense.

 

[maryjk]

I guess the real question is, how many people ask for convalidation and are refused. How many, not including those that have divorced and are getting married for the second or third time. Counting only those that would be considered free to marry?

How many are told, sorry, we, the Church, don’t think you are committed to each other even though you have been married civilly 10+ years and have x number of children. And if there are any, what is the Church’s solution? Civil divorce?

 

[Sarabande]

How many are told, sorry, we, the Church, don’t think you are committed to each other even though you have been married civilly 10+ years and have x number of children. And if there are any, what is the Church’s solution? Civil divorce?

That’s an interesting question. What does the Church do if she decides to not grant a convalidation?

 

[kage_ar]

I guess the real question is, how many people ask for convalidation and are refused. How many, not including those that have divorced and are getting married for the second or third time. Counting only those that would be considered free to marry?

How many are told, sorry, we, the Church, don’t think you are committed to each other even though you have been married civilly 10+ years and have x number of children. And if there are any, what is the Church’s solution? Civil divorce?

I’ve never met anyone who was free to marry and sought convalidation where it was not done.

 

[Corki]

I guess the real question is, how many people ask for convalidation and are refused. How many, not including those that have divorced and are getting married for the second or third time. Counting only those that would be considered free to marry?

How many are told, sorry, we, the Church, don’t think you are committed to each other even though you have been married civilly 10+ years and have x number of children. And if there are any, what is the Church’s solution? Civil divorce?

I don’t think convalidations are refused. As a general rule, Sacraments cannot be refused but only delayed. A convalidation is what makes the marriage Sacramental.

I do know of one couple who came to our Church and wanted to have thier marriage convalidated. The marriage was in trouble and they thought this might help. They were told to work on the relationship first and couseling was recommended. It wasn’t a “no,” just a “not yet”.

 

[Brooklyn]

Your choice of words is interesting, it appears that marriage in the eyes of God and the Church is trivialized. That is the most important thing, it should be “they just need to make it valid in the eyes of society.”

Hardly!! My husband and I had our marriage convalidated as soon as we came back to the Church. I understand how important it is, and I don’t consider myself truly married until our convalidation.

I am saying that the world already sees them as married, and they probably did, too, until they found out what the Church says. Convalidation is a very short, usually about a 10 minute ceremony. It is done to make valid a civil marriage. The couple have been “married”, but invalidly in the eyes of God. Like it or not, the couple has been married as far as the State is concerned.

I think your remark was out of line.

Mary