The phrasing “it ***just” ***needs to be made valid in the eyes of the Church was yours, I simply responded to your phrase. If I’d put words in your mouth, THAT would have been out of line.Hardly!! My husband and I had our marriage convalidated as soon as we came back to the Church. I understand how important it is, and I don’t consider myself truly married until our convalidation.
I am saying that the world already sees them as married, and they probably did, too, until they found out what the Church says. Convalidation is a very short, usually about a 10 minute ceremony. It is done to make valid a civil marriage. The couple have been “married”, but invalidly in the eyes of God. Like it or not, the couple has been married as far as the State is concerned.
I think your remark was out of line.
Mary
That’s the unfortunate part about the Church - people fall over themselves to be “more Catholic” than the next person. It gets to the point sometimes where people are so dedicated to being the “best” Catholic that they blindly accept many assumptions and points without knowing why or even which can be validly debated. Then they start foaming at the mouth the second you mention something that they feel is at odds with what is typically assumed to be “correct”. See the cohabitation thread for an example. I had to stop visiting that thread it got so bad.This is exacerbated by the fact that many Catholics I have spoken to are very judgmental.
Why do you think I don’t put any value on convalidation? I stand by what I said - someone who is living common law cannot get a convalidation. The only way you can get a convalidation as opposed to being required to be married is if you have a valid marriage license, which we were required to produce for the priest.The phrasing “it ***just” ***needs to be made valid in the eyes of the Church was yours, I simply responded to your phrase. If I’d put words in your mouth, THAT would have been out of line.
Words matter - the way we use words matters.
A couple has been married as far as the State is concerned even without any marriage license in many cases (common law states).
I am happy you came back to the Church and were married in the Church.
But that’s the point, you ARE getting married. Your marriage begins when you speak those vows again in the Church. Your marriage is valid from that point on.Convalidation is just (yes, I used that word) that - making valid an invalid marriage. It is not “getting married”, as such. I’m not talking from head knowledge as you seem to be. I have been through this and I really do know what it is about.
Mary
Can. 1160 A marriage which is null because of defect of form must be contracted anew in canonical form in order to become valid… (the rest refers to Eastern Rite).
Yes, you are getting married in the eyes of God, but if you are not married in the eyes of the state, you cannot get a convalidation from the Church. If a common law couple comes into the Church, they are not considered married, and they cannot get a convalidation of their relationship. You must have a valid marriage certificate - and what does that certificate say? It says that in the eyes of the State you are married. It is more than a “relationship”, it is a marriage, but it is not valid in the eyes of the Church. I will say it one more time - convalidation is making valid an invalid marriage, not an invalid relationship.But that’s the point, you ARE getting married. Your marriage begins when you speak those vows again in the Church. Your marriage is valid from that point on.
The only way to get to that point is by receiving the sacrament of marriage, and I thank God for that wonderful gift.In this way, sacramental marriage is more than a union of a man and a woman; it is, in fact, a type and symbol of the divine union between Christ, the Bridegroom, and His Church, the Bride. As married Christians, open to the creation of new life and committed to our mutual salvation, we participate not only in God’s creative act but in the redemptive act of Christ.
My Book of Rites has a section for Marriage, it has three Rites, Marriage within Mass, Marriage outside of Mass, and Marriage with a non-Baptized person. It does not have anything called the Rite of Convalidation of Marriage. Maybe the boo I have is missing that section that was added later? The Rite that is used is one of the three Rite for all Marriages. If you read the words used they reflect the idea that no Marriage yet exists. There is no mention of any prior exchange of vows. The Marriage is taking place here and now, it says nothing about legitimizing a prior Marriage.Yes, you are getting married in the eyes of God, but if you are not married in the eyes of the state, you cannot get a convalidation from the Church. If a common law couple comes into the Church, they are not considered married, and they cannot get a convalidation of their relationship. You must have a valid marriage certificate - and what does that certificate say? It says that in the eyes of the State you are married. It is more than a “relationship”, it is a marriage, but it is not valid in the eyes of the Church. I will say it one more time - convalidation is making valid an invalid marriage, not an invalid relationship.
That is why it is a much simpler ceremony than a regular marriage ceremony, and why as soon as it can be determined that a couple is validly married in the eyes of the state and that they are baptized and confirmed Catholics, their marriage should be convalidated, because you can’t receive any sacraments until that happens.
I found an interesting article that explains the difference between marriage with and without the sacrament of the church:
catholicism.about.com/od/beliefsteachings/p/Sac_Marriage.htm
The only way to get to that point is by receiving the sacrament of marriage, and I thank God for that wonderful gift.
Mary
With all due respect, what you are saying makes no sense. Are you trying to say that there is no such thing as convalidation of marriage? If that is true, you better contact the Pope right away and let him know because there are priests all over the world convalidating marriages! And people like me,who have had our marriages convalidated, are in big trouble!My Book of Rites has a section for Marriage, it has three Rites, Marriage within Mass, Marriage outside of Mass, and Marriage with a non-Baptized person. It does not have anything called the Rite of Convalidation of Marriage. The Rite that is used is one of the three Rite for all Marriages. If you read the words used they reflect the idea that no Marriage yet exists. There is no mention of any prior exchange of vows. The Marriage is taking place here and now, it says nothing about legitimizing a prior Marriage.
.
The problem is that the Church has not done a very good job of telling people, no you should not be getting Married to each other, at least not yet. Priests and Deacons are afraid of telling people this, because they might just leave. They are determined to Marry one way or another, if not in the Catholic Church then in Pastor Bob’s “church”.I guess the real question is, how many people ask for convalidation and are refused. How many, not including those that have divorced and are getting married for the second or third time. Counting only those that would be considered free to marry?
How many are told, sorry, we, the Church, don’t think you are committed to each other even though you have been married civilly 10+ years and have x number of children. And if there are any, what is the Church’s solution? Civil divorce?
Again, you’re not understanding. I left the Church back in 1969. I was not paying any attention to the Church between 1969 and 2007. So when I got married, I couldn’t have cared less what the Church said. There are probably millions of people in my position. I was not a member in good standing when I got married, nor did I want to be. It had nothing to do with what the Church was saying or not saying. The Church, in her wisdom and understanding, has given people like me a way to make things right.The problem is that the Church has not done a very good job of telling people, no you should not be getting Married to each other, at least not yet. Priests and Deacons are afraid of telling people this, because they might just leave. They are determined to Marry one way or another, if not in the Catholic Church then in Pastor Bob’s “church”.
A convalidation means that a couple who are civilly married are now being married in the Church. The rite for a convalidation is exactly the same as the rite for any marriage with variations depending on whether the couple is marrying during a Nuptial Mass or with a Liturgy of the Word or one is non-Baptized.With all due respect, what you are saying makes no sense. Are you trying to say that there is no such thing as convalidation of marriage? If that is true, you better contact the Pope right away and let him know because there are priests all over the world convalidating marriages! And people like me,who have had our marriages convalidated, are in big trouble!
One other thing, assuming that there is such a thing as convalidation, if convalidation does not mean validating an invalid marriage, then why can’t people who have no marriage certificate between them have a convalidation of their relationship instead of a regular marriage ceremony?
Mary
I was not talking about Catholics who left the practice of the Catholic faith. I was talking about Catholics who want to be Married in the Catholic Church but, maybe shouldn’t, at least not yet.Again, you’re not understanding. I left the Church back in 1969. I was not paying any attention to the Church between 1969 and 2007. So when I got married, I couldn’t have cared less what the Church said. There are probably millions of people in my position. I was not a member in good standing when I got married, nor did I want to be. It had nothing to do with what the Church was saying or not saying. The Church, in her wisdom and understanding, has given people like me a way to make things right.
Does that make any sense to you?
Mary
I’m getting the impression that some think that there is a separate Rite for “Convalidation” that is somehow different from the Rite of Marriage. As far as I know there is not.With all due respect, what you are saying makes no sense. Are you trying to say that there is no such thing as convalidation of marriage? If that is true, you better contact the Pope right away and let him know because there are priests all over the world convalidating marriages! And people like me,who have had our marriages convalidated, are in big trouble!
One other thing, assuming that there is such a thing as convalidation, if convalidation does not mean validating an invalid marriage, then why can’t people who have no marriage certificate between them have a convalidation of their relationship instead of a regular marriage ceremony?
Mary
A convalidation, like any other wedding, can be anything from a 5 minute exchange of consent and exchange of rings in the parish office or a full-blown Nuptial Mass complete with white gown/tux and 6 attendants. In fact, there is nothing to distinguish it from a regular wedding as far as the Rite goes. Why? Because it is a regular wedding. The only difference is that the legal part of it happened some time before.I’m getting the impression that some think that there is a separate Rite for “Convalidation” that is somehow different from the Rite of Marriage. As far as I know there is not.
As everyone else has pointed out, a convalidation is getting married - for the very first time in the most important eyes - the eyes of the Holy Mother Church.Convalidation is just (yes, I used that word) that - making valid an invalid marriage. It is not “getting married”, as such. I’m not talking from head knowledge as you seem to be. I have been through this and I really do know what it is about.
Mary
I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but that is absolutely not true. There is an exchange of vows, there is the exchange of rings, but unlike a regular wedding, which is not convalidating an invalid marriage, it never involves a Mass and never involves communion. It is a very simple ceremony lasting no more than 10 minutes or so. There are 2 witnesses but there are never attendants. You never have a procession down the aisle. There is never music.A convalidation, like any other wedding, can be anything from a 5 minute exchange of consent and exchange of rings in the parish office or a full-blown Nuptial Mass complete with white gown/tux and 6 attendants. In fact, there is nothing to distinguish it from a regular wedding as far as the Rite goes. Why? Because it is a regular wedding. The only difference is that the legal part of it happened some time before.
Some priests will be open to more elaborate ceremonies that include traditional wedding music or a procession, but it should be clearly understood that an actual, legal wedding has already taken place prior to the convalidation. The bride and groom were legally married according to the state government, but not under the requirements of a Catholic wedding ceremony according to canon law, which all Catholics are bound to obey.
The convalidation ceremony is not the time for the big church wedding with bridesmaids and a huge reception bulging with expensive gifts. But, because celebrating the Church’s official recognition of the marriage is still a joyous occasion, a get-together can be planned to follow the liturgical blessing.
This is exactly what I have been posting, but for whatever reason, all of you who have no experience with convalidation refuse to believe me. Those who marry outside the Church have committed a grave sin and are not in a sacramental marriage. But that does not change the fact that they are legally married. I don’t know how to make that any clearer. They are not in the same state as those who have never been married. A marriage outside the church is illicit and invalid, but it is not illegal, and it is an actual marriage, albeit not a sacramental marriage. A couple has all the rights that the state grants to married couples, but it does not have the blessings and rights granted to it by the Church. That is the big difference. And the Church recognizes this. That is why it is not the same ceremony as that of a regular wedding.For whatever reasons couples choose to marry outside the Church and later seek to have their marriages blessed, the spiritual benefits of convalidation are obvious. Catholics approach the altar with peace of heart and mind, knowing they are coming back into full communion and are once again welcome to partake in the rich sacramental life of the Church, especially the reception of the Eucharist, with the Church’s assurance of God’s special blessing upon their marriage.
No one is arguing that they are not legally married. But what you don’t seem to understand is that it IS the same ceremony as a regular wedding. The Church doesn’t have a different Rite of Marriage for a convalidation.That is why it is not the same ceremony as that of a regular wedding.
You will all be glad to know that is my last word on the subject. I will leave you to believe whatever you want.
Mary
Sorry I’m breaking my word but I have to correct one thing you wrote. You could not have done this in the parish office. You must either get married in a Catholic church or another holy place. A Catholic ceremony cannot take place just anywhere and be valid.No one is arguing that they are not legally married. But what you don’t seem to understand is that it IS the same ceremony as a regular wedding. The Church doesn’t have a different Rite of Marriage for a convalidation.
When I got married there was no Mass, no Liturgy of the Word, nothing. We had the procession, the priest said a prayer, we exchanged consent and rings, the priest blessed us, we signed the regisiter and that was it. We could have done it in the parish office with just our witnesses if we’d wanted. What surrounds the Rite of Marriage varies from couple to couple but the Rite of Marriage itself is the same.
Marriage between a catholic and a non Catholic can be done outside the church itself since it is not a sacrament. This is with permission from the Ordinary of course.Sorry I’m breaking my word but I have to correct one thing you wrote. You could not have done this in the parish office. You must either get married in a Catholic church or another holy place. A Catholic ceremony cannot take place just anywhere and be valid.
Could I have sources please that a convalidation ceremony is exactly the same as a regular wedding? That certainly wasn’t my experience.
Sorry I’m breaking my word but I have to correct one thing you wrote. You could not have done this in the parish office. You must either get married in a Catholic church or another holy place. A Catholic ceremony cannot take place just anywhere and be valid.
Could I have sources please that a convalidation ceremony is exactly the same as a regular wedding? That certainly wasn’t my experience.