Why is convalidation of marriage so difficult?

[Brooklyn]

In the case of our recent parishioner, his bride was Anglican.

But in one case we had two Catholics, one of whom was the granddaughter of the United Church minister. She wanted her grandfather to witness her marriage.

My point is that the valid marriage of two baptized people, be they two Catholics, two Protestants, or one of each, is sacramental.

I know the church considers marriages among people in non-Catholic churches to be valid but does the Church consider them sacramental? I do understand that a couple converting to Catholicism does not need to have their marriage convalidated because it is already valid, but is it sacramental?

Mary

 

[Brooklyn]

In the case of our recent parishioner, his bride was Anglican.

But in one case we had two Catholics, one of whom was the granddaughter of the United Church minister. She wanted her grandfather to witness her marriage.

My point is that the valid marriage of two baptized people, be they two Catholics, two Protestants, or one of each, is sacramental.

Thanks for your help. It really cleared a lot of issues I wasn’t exactly sure of. Koneko, I found a great article thar might answer a lot of your questions too.

catholicexchange.com/2009/02/19/115965/

Mary

 

[Koneko]

You’ve got it backwards.
It’s not sacramental that makes it valid. It’s valid that makes it sacramental.

If the marriage is valid and both are baptized, it’s sacramental.
If it’s valid but one is not baptized it’s not sacramental.

Baptism & validity determine the sacramental nature of a marriage.

For the Catholic, validity involves following the rules of the Church by either getting married by a priest/deacon (or lay person in some rare case) in a Catholic Church or getting a dispensation allowing you be married by the clergy of another Church or a judge/justice of the peace.

Ok, I see what you are saying about being valid and baptized. I’m then confused about what makes a marriage valid. Two baptized non-Catholics get married outside of the Catholic church and the Catholic church considers it valid. As I explained, it can’t be the process and it can’t be the intent. A baptized person in an ultra liberal church can have a valid and sacramental marriage? Can’t be true because then same sex marriages would be valid and sacramental.

 

[Phemie]

Ok, I see what you are saying about being valid and baptized. I’m then confused about what makes a marriage valid. Two baptized non-Catholics get married outside of the Catholic church and the Catholic church considers it valid. As I explained, it can’t be the process and it can’t be the intent. A baptized person in an ultra liberal church can have a valid and sacramental marriage? Can’t be true because then same sex marriages would be valid and sacramental.

The only people who ever worry about validity are Catholics (or those who want to marry them) and the Catholic Church has rules in place to determine when a marriage is valid and it’s applicable to all marriages, regardless of Church/religion/atheism, etc.

First and foremost to be valid it has to be between a man and a woman. Any other combination would automatically be invalid.

If they have a church, their church has to recognize it.

As long as those two requirements are met, the marriage of most non-Catholics would be presumed valid because almost all churches recognize a civil marriage.

The Catholic though, has further rules to obey to have a valid marriage: Canon Law, which says that he/she can only marry another Catholic and only in the Catholic Church. Wait, don’t scream yet.

• For good reason, the pastor can give permission for a mixed-marriage (to a baptized non-Catholic).
• The bishop can give a dispensation for a marriage where there is disparity of cult/worship, IOW, marriage to a non-baptized person.
• The bishop can also grant a dispensation from canonical form to allow the Catholic to marry outside the Church: by a clergy of another faith, by a JP etc.

In addition the valid marriage is one in which both parties come to it freely, are open to children, are expecting it to be for their entire life and to the exclusion of all others. You are in fact asked those questions at the prenuptial investigation and during the wedding ceremony.

It is presumed that those 4 things are present in most marriages which is why they are “presumed” valid.

If the Catholic doesn’t obey Canon Law and marries outside the church without a dispensation his/her marriage is not presumed valid.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Ok, I see what you are saying about being valid and baptized. I’m then confused about what makes a marriage valid. Two baptized non-Catholics get married outside of the Catholic church and the Catholic church considers it valid. As I explained, it can’t be the process and it can’t be the intent. A baptized person in an ultra liberal church can have a valid and sacramental marriage? Can’t be true because then same sex marriages would be valid and sacramental.

When a man and a woman with full intent, exchange Marriage vows freely, without any impediments, according to the Marriage laws of their faiths, it would generally be considered a valid Marriage, until proven otherwise.

 

[kage_ar]

Can’t be true because then same sex marriages would be valid and sacramental.

Marriage CAN BE a Sacrament.

In order to be a sacrament, there must be three things:

Valid Matter - for marriage, this is a man and a woman who are both free to marry. Two men are not valid matter.

Valid Form - Non-Catholic Christians are not bound by the Catholic form of marriage. Therefore, they can have a valid form at First Church of What’s Happenin Now or at the Beach. Those baptized Catholic ARE bound by Canon law, the wedding must follow Catholic form or the Bishop can provide a dispensation from that form.

**Valid Intent - **lack of this is the cause of many invalid weddings even in the Catholic Church

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Marriage CAN BE a Sacrament.

In order to be a sacrament, there must be three things:

Valid Matter - for marriage, this is a man and a woman who are both free to marry. Two men are not valid matter.

Valid Form - Non-Catholic Christians are not bound by the Catholic form of marriage. Therefore, they can have a valid form at First Church of What’s Happenin Now or at the Beach. Those baptized Catholic ARE bound by Canon law, the wedding must follow Catholic form or the Bishop can provide a dispensation from that form.

**Valid Intent - **lack of this is the cause of many invalid weddings even in the Catholic Church

Valid Matter - for marriage, this is a validly Baptized man and a validly **Baptized **woman who are both free to marry. Two men are not valid matter.

 

[Brooklyn]

Valid Matter - for marriage, this is a validly Baptized man and a validly **Baptized **woman who are both free to marry. Two men are not valid matter.

Also, if one spouse is Catholic and the other is not a Christian, then for the marriage to be valid, they must get special dispensation from the Bishop. But the marriage, because one is not Christian, will never be sacramental. From the Catholic Bishops’ website:

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

1. Do Catholics ever validly enter into non-sacramental marriages?

Yes. Marriages between Catholics and non-Christians, while they may still be valid in the eyes of the Church, are non-sacramental. With permission, a priest or deacon may witness such marriages.

1. What is the difference between a valid and an invalid Catholic marriage?

Just as individual states have certain requirements for civil marriage (e.g., a marriage license, blood tests), the Catholic Church also has requirements before Catholics can be considered validly married in the eyes of the Church. A valid Catholic marriage results from four elements: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they freely exchange their consent; (3) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; and (4) their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by church authority.

That pretty much duplicates what everyone is saying, but I thought the Bishops summed it up nicely!

Mary

 

[mags123]

Our wedding was convalidated recently. I was just wondering how long the sacramental marriage certificate would be sent to us. Does anybody know?