Why is cross-dressing a sin?

[Dakota_Roberts]

This is silly. Fashion changes all the time. When women started wearing pants it was considered cross-dressing and now it’s normal. Some men’s shirts look like women’s blouses. So where is the line? Women sometimes wear a men’s oxford with a tie and hat. As long as you’re not like the dude in Silence of the Lambs, who cares?

When women started dressing like men it was WWII and they were working men’s jobs where it was not safe or practical to wear men’s clothes so some of them started wearing their husband’s clothes. This was not in and of itself a problem, but some retained the habit after the war.

PS, cross dressing and homosexuality are not the same thing, plenty of gays wear manly clothes, everything between industrial worker clothes and three piece suits. OTOH lesbians do seem to dress more masculine (or at least the noticeable ones do).

 

[jmallon764]

If you are acting or infiltrating you are not cross-dressing. That is not what cross dressing means.
A cross dresser is a transvestite and that is an abomination to God.

Deut 22:5 "A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

hello i am jacob and belive in the exact oppiste of your religon and i am indeed a cross dresser i found this site and merely wish to point that you do not have an open disscusion i had to create an acount just to post i am only here to point out several things
FIRST i am here to give other side of the story so this page may not be totally biast
SECOND crossdressing is not in anyway a sin and has nothing to do with homosexuailtyit just that some people like it and think its fun
THIRD it does have uses as said a earlyier post said it does not when girls feel bloateds they indeed wear menish items wel we men work and sweat and get hot and down their gets hot as well if men were wearing a skirt it would be cooler down thier
FOURTH crossdressing has nothing to do with a diasese and illness
FITH i would like to request RESECTFULLY that before you judge look on both sides of argument
SIXTH it is in human nature to have vearing levels of feministy
and finnaly i wish ou would be more respectfull to us if you do not agree with us is this to much to ask if not anything else
i would now like to thank you for your time and understanding of my point of veiws and wish you would take a closer look before judging thanks

• sincerly
  jacob mallon
  ps i would apreciate it if you did not call me an adbomination thank you

 

[Dymphna82]

So wait, cross dressing cannot always be a sin then? Like in acting or if you needed to infiltrate a brothel to save someone (just an extreme example) by dressing like a girl?

Someone likes Final Fantasy VII.

 

[Dale_M]

hello i am jacob and belive in the exact oppiste of your religon and i am indeed a cross dresser i found this site and merely wish to point that you do not have an open disscusion i had to create an acount just to post i am only here to point out several things

Hi Jacob, welcome to our little corner of the web.

I hope you will be patient with us. Undoubtedly, you will find some persons who say things which you will not agree with. Perhaps you will even disagree quite strongly. Such is the nature of the internet, and Catholic Answers Forums (or CAF as we often call it) is no different. Hundreds of people post here every day, from all walks of life and from countries around the world. Most express themselves with charity (aka “love for our neighbor”) and avoid the temptation to insult or offend. However, from time to time you will encounter persons who are not expressing themselves with charity. Rather than respond to fire with fire, the thing to do is to report an uncharitable post to the forum moderator. The way to do that is to click on the little red triangle which is in the upper right hand corner of every post made here.

As you may have noticed, this discussion thread was started a year ago. I mention that because it is worth remembering that anything you post here will exist pretty much for as long as the internet exists. Years from now, Google will still turn up this discussion (or any other CAF discussion) and all of the comments will be readable. Please keep that in mind when deciding what you want to share with us.

Okay! Now that I have thoroughly bored you, I will respond to what you have written.

This is a Catholic forum, sponsored by a Catholic organization which explains and defends Catholic teaching. So a bias towards Catholic teaching will be unavoidable. The members of CAF tend to be strong supporters of orthodox Catholic positions. They also tend to be politically and culturally conservative. You will find some members here who do not fit those descriptions and they are welcome so long as they remain charitable in their discussion. But I think they need to exercise a lot of tolerance for opinions they disagree with and which they encounter regularly.

For example, you believe that crossdressing is not a sin. A Catholic would say, in light of Church teaching on sexuality, that it might be in some situations. Actors crossdress as part of their profession, and women often wear male clothing without eliciting concern. Surely such things are not sinful. Does a man wearing female clothing, in itself, constitute sin? Probably not, although it may distress onlookers who are uncomfortable with the idea. However, if someone crossdresses to achieve sexual arousal, the issue becomes complicated… more complicated than I will deal with right now.

Regarding that Bible verse which you objected to, don’t worry about it. It is no longer morally relevant but was part of an archaic legal code to set the Jews apart from their neighbors. Deuteronomy 22, and similar chapters of Deuteronomy, are purely of historical interest. Much of it sounds strange today, for example, saying that clothing made from two different fibers (say, cotton and polyester) is forbidden. Yet few Christians or Jews today would scruple about wearing a cotton/poly shirt. So don’t worry about Deut 22:5. If the Bible is truly against crossdressing, it will say so elsewhere.

 

[jmallon764]

Hi Jacob, welcome to our little corner of the web.

I hope you will be patient with us. Undoubtedly, you will find some persons who say things which you will not agree with. Perhaps you will even disagree quite strongly. Such is the nature of the internet, and Catholic Answers Forums (or CAF as we often call it) is no different. Hundreds of people post here every day, from all walks of life and from countries around the world. Most express themselves with charity (aka “love for our neighbor”) and avoid the temptation to insult or offend. However, from time to time you will encounter persons who are not expressing themselves with charity. Rather than respond to fire with fire, the thing to do is to report an uncharitable post to the forum moderator. The way to do that is to click on the little red triangle which is in the upper right hand corner of every post made here.

As you may have noticed, this discussion thread was started a year ago. I mention that because it is worth remembering that anything you post here will exist pretty much for as long as the internet exists. Years from now, Google will still turn up this discussion (or any other CAF discussion) and all of the comments will be readable. Please keep that in mind when deciding what you want to share with us.

Okay! Now that I have thoroughly bored you, I will respond to what you have written.

This is a Catholic forum, sponsored by a Catholic organization which explains and defends Catholic teaching. So a bias towards Catholic teaching will be unavoidable. The members of CAF tend to be strong supporters of orthodox Catholic positions. They also tend to be politically and culturally conservative. You will find some members here who do not fit those descriptions and they are welcome so long as they remain charitable in their discussion. But I think they need to exercise a lot of tolerance for opinions they disagree with and which they encounter regularly.

For example, you believe that crossdressing is not a sin. A Catholic would say, in light of Church teaching on sexuality, that it might be in some situations. Actors crossdress as part of their profession, and women often wear male clothing without eliciting concern. Surely such things are not sinful. Does a man wearing female clothing, in itself, constitute sin? Probably not, although it may distress onlookers who are uncomfortable with the idea. However, if someone crossdresses to achieve sexual arousal, the issue becomes complicated… more complicated than I will deal with right now.

Regarding that Bible verse which you objected to, don’t worry about it. It is no longer morally relevant but was part of an archaic legal code to set the Jews apart from their neighbors. Deuteronomy 22, and similar chapters of Deuteronomy, are purely of historical interest. Much of it sounds strange today, for example, saying that clothing made from two different fibers (say, cotton and polyester) is forbidden. Yet few Christians or Jews today would scruple about wearing a cotton/poly shirt. So don’t worry about Deut 22:5. If the Bible is truly against crossdressing, it will say so elsewhere.

thank you dave for your coment but i merley need to say this im NOT here to start a brimstone fire im here to open up disscusion on the debate floor and have indeed try and be respectfull so that you will see that not all atheist are rude and meen no matter how much negitivity i recive i will just nicely ask to refraim from it and i thank you for your post on topic and for welcoming be with open but carefull arms

• sicerly jacob

 

[dorrbell]

Like drag queens? Drag queens are a blast! I know many. Very lovely man.

 

[jmallon764]

Like drag queens? Drag queens are a blast! I know many. Very lovely man.

see and we if anything are more compasionte than other men im strait 14 male but i cross dress and still have healthy love life with oppsite gender

 

[veroniac]

if we realize we have gender identity disorder, can it be cured?

 

[jmallon764]

if we realize we have gender identity disorder, can it be cured?

there is no gender disorder it is mearly us doing what we feel is natural

 

[Leegal]

I think it is a mortal sin too, but why?

I guess it could have to do with the cross-dresser wanting to change the est. physical order of God but not all cross-dressers want this yet all cross-dressing is a sin. So there must be something more, is there?

Most, they say, are hetero. I don’t know. However, usually there’s an arousal or sexual component to the wearing of a woman’s clothing. So, when done for the purpose of arousal, it would be a sin. I know they are aroused by both the idea and the touch and feel of the clothing. I also know it’s more prevalent in times of stress. Of course, it then usually leads to masturbation – which is also a sin. Sometimes porn is involved – another sin.

Which then leads me to ask if a man used this cding as a part of his marital foreplay, would it be a sin? Assuming that the wife was on board and the actual marital act was completed according to the teachings of the Church?

 

[Leegal]

P.S. I’m not advocating cding. I know how confusing and distressing it is for someone to have this fetish and I feel for them. For some men it’s like living a lie – or living two lives, especially when the wife refuses to deal with it and prefers the “do what you want” approach, “just don’t let me see it.” I know how one sin leads to another.

 

[jmallon764]

P.S. I’m not advocating cding. I know how confusing and distressing it is for someone to have this fetish and I feel for them. For some men it’s like living a lie – or living two lives, especially when the wife refuses to deal with it and prefers the “do what you want” approach, “just don’t let me see it.” I know how one sin leads to another.

no it is only a sin to the eyes of an idividual oh and by the way guess what the bibal is biast not antwhere does it say to listen to other side of story ive cheecked nd instead of doging us at least look at other side of argument or if you want to be truelly fair walk a mile in or shoes or heels in this caSE

• sincerly jacobmallon cd and e.t.c

 

[Dale_M]

if we realize we have gender identity disorder, can it be cured?

My understanding is that gender identity disorder is related to transsexualism and that cross-dressing can be considered a separate phenomenon. The distinction is that transsexuals see themselves as being the opposite sex to which they are normally assigned. Crossdressers, as a separate group, have no desire to change their sex or to permanently live their life as the opposite sex.

Of course, that doesn’t answer your question. The answer seems to be qualified. Many with GID can come to terms with it without resorting to changing their sex. However, the condition doesn’t really go away. Persons with it just learn ways to cope.

 

[Dale_M]

Which then leads me to ask if a man used this cding as a part of his marital foreplay, would it be a sin? Assuming that the wife was on board and the actual marital act was completed according to the teachings of the Church?

I think those are very good questions. I am inclined to think that crossdressing in that context would be morally neutral. However, I welcome reading the explanations of others.

 

[Leegal]

My understanding is that gender identity disorder is related to transsexualism and that cross-dressing can be considered a separate phenomenon. The distinction is that transsexuals see themselves as being the opposite sex to which they are normally assigned. Crossdressers, as a separate group, have no desire to change their sex or to permanently live their life as the opposite sex.

Of course, that doesn’t answer your question. The answer seems to be qualified. Many with GID can come to terms with it without resorting to changing their sex. However, the condition doesn’t really go away. Persons with it just learn ways to cope.

True. Most cders do not have a gender identity disorder. Some TGs do cd in the beginning, before SRS (actually it’s required as a part of the transition to live as the other sex) and believe that the biological identity is the wrong one because the mind is telling them that they are of the other sexual identity. Others never change their sex through surgery, or only partially reassign. For some, only full sexual reassignment will suffice. It cannot be cured, unless full SRS is the cure.

However, for the most part, cders fully identify with the gender of birth, are mainly hetero men, but something else is happening that creates the need to dress in the clothing and pass as the other gender, at varying times.

 

[Leegal]

well I think that moderation has to be observed in dress and since moderation probably follows closely with reason, then obviously men’s and women’s clothes should never intermingle for the reason that men are obviously different from women. But there are certain cases where the action (at least) of wearing different clothes can be dispensed with. These are to avoid danger, if you have no more clothes, and for similar reasons.

But going back to infiltration, most infiltrating is dangerous so I wonder, if you know there is a strong reason for avoiding danger can infiltrating be one and can you then, cross-dress to do this -it seems to make sense.

Any thoughts?

Joan of Arc was the first known historical figure who was a female crossdresser, at least to my recollection. Obviously, to fight a foreign invader it would seem that it be necessary to have her pass as a man rather than as a female peasant.

 

[Leegal]

So wait, cross dressing cannot always be a sin then? Like in acting or if you needed to infiltrate a brothel to save someone (just an extreme example) by dressing like a girl?

I would say no, or an actor who has to play a role. That’s not the cding that I think of.

But it’s your question. Are you asking about the regular men and women who feel compelled at times (mostly men) to fully dress and go out and pass as the other gender? In that case there’s a sexual gratification in the dressing as a woman.

If so, and fully hetero with this need, I would say that a wife should not ignore it and pretend that it does not exist. The manifestation is more prevalent during times of stress and I think the wife can help the husband by acknowledging the need within the confines of the marriage.

Some women have agreed, and it led to the man leaving to live as a woman more and more, or to take this cding outside into other sexual activity. Some men stay within the marriage, but there’s a private acquiescence to allowing some crossdressing in the home.

So, for as many people who engage in cding, there’s as many reasons why they do it. But, I don’t consider passing as a female to save someone or an actor who is playing a role to be cding.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Joan of Arc was the first known historical figure who was a female crossdresser, at least to my recollection. Obviously, to fight a foreign invader it would seem that it be necessary to have her pass as a man rather than as a female peasant.

She wasn’t dressing as a man because she wanted to, she did it because she needed to.

 

[Leegal]

She wasn’t dressing as a man because she wanted to, she did it because she needed to.

Acknowledged. I guess you missed the reference to “necessary” in my post.

 

[andrewstx]

I am changing the topic back to the OP, and forgive me, it’s late and I have not read the whole thread.

Dress changes from time to time, and culture to culture.

I don’t think anyone would call Our Lord a cross dresser, or a roman in his toga.

And if you say a kilted Scotsman or Irish man is wearing a dress, you will probably get a bloody nose.