Why is divorce a requirement for annulment screening?

[roseofshannon]

Why?

If he divorces and remarries, the choices are:

A. He does so with an annulment and probably has a valid second marriage.

B. He does so without an annulment and is probably in a state of mortal sin.

Is B really preferable to you?

Don’t let this situation take over your life and poison your children’s young adult years. I’ve seen this movie before in a relative’s life–it is not a good Christian witness to your children or your grandchildren if you choose to make everything about your failed marriage and create a huge emotional black hole at the center of your extended family. For your children and your grandchildren’s sake, try to make the best of your situation and live as happy and productive a life as you can manage.

I’m not sure I understand where you are coming from.

I do not believe that he in any way has a valid reason for annulment and he would only be able to receive one through dubious means. If that is the case then I will feel abandoned by the church, but it’s happened to some of the saints before, so, so be it.

If he chooses to marry without an annulment, that is his choice and I have no implication in that. Of course I wouldn’t want him to be in a state of mortal sin. I pray he is able to resist temptation from either course and that he may become a great and holy saint. I wish him nothing but the best of all things.

The most likely outcome will be that he will be refused an annulment and we will no longer be both civilly and sacramentally married. We will be civilly divorced and sacramentally married. It is what it is, but I prefer to have the two in synch.

Because divorce is a plague which spreads quickly within the family tree as well as society, separation rather than divorce would be the best possible outcome to our unfortunate situation. It would help form future generations in the correct understanding of marriage and would help my husband and myself in remembering that we still have a spouse, not an “ex”. But the procedure itself denies this outcome.

Also, your accusative suppositions about me making this a “black hole” etc…are a bit offensive. I’m trying to save my sacrament which is best for both of us and our kids. I don’t see how discussing it anonymously online is causing anyone emotional distress.

 

[Xantippe]

Because divorce is a plague which spreads quickly within the family tree as well as society, separation rather than divorce would be the best possible outcome to our unfortunate situation. It would help form future generations in the correct understanding of marriage and would help my husband and myself in remembering that we still have a spouse, not an “ex”. But the procedure itself denies this outcome.

**Anecdotally, I don’t think that is correct. I think that, there being fewer social stigmas today than in the past, bad or troubled marriages in the parents’ generation turn into divorces in the children’s generation.

A bad marriage is not actually a good example to adult children today. It may either encourage them to divorce earlier or to avoid marriage entirely in order to avoid being like mom and dad. Nobody says, “My mom and dad suffered terribly in their marriage and hurt all of us. I want that, too!”**

Also, your accusative suppositions about me making this a “black hole” etc…are a bit offensive. I’m trying to save my sacrament which is best for both of us and our kids. I don’t see how discussing it anonymously online is causing anyone emotional distress.

That was a suggestion that you not make your pain the center of your family’s emotional life. I don’t know if you are doing that, but I have seen it before, and it was incredibly damaging.

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually, if you are publicly known as a good Catholic guy (who privately abuses his wife) and do business within those circles, there is a great worldly advantage to finding some way to get an annulment: ie keeping up appearances.

So a guy destroys his first marriage, and seeks an annulment so he can start over with someone else?

The part I fear is the “he said”, “she said”. How will they know who is telling the truth?

If you honestly believe that your marriage is valid, you do not have to cave in to a tribunal that says otherwise. You can advocate for that truth all the way to the Vatican. Were I in your shoes, I would consult with a canon lawyer about how this works. I’d also let my husband know that I didn’t believe our marriage was invalid and intended to advocate for that truth all the way to the Vatican, if I had to.

Between 1982 and 1984, the Vatican overturned nearly 80 percent of the American annulments it reviewed, he wrote. As Rauch Kennedy learned, however, it can often be a long wait."

boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/06/21/vatican_reverses_kennedy_ruling/?page=full

It would be immoral to know that your attempt at marriage was invalid and to fight so that your would-be spouse could not be freed to pursue a valid marriage. You need to satisfy yourself you are not in denial when it comes to the reasons your husband believes your marriage is not valid. Once you’ve done that, though, I would not hesitate to refuse what I thought was a false declaration. Try to stay charitable and peaceable at all times, but by all means find out what you need to do to defend the actual truth competently, and do that.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why?

If he divorces and remarries, the choices are:

A. He does so with an annulment and probably has a valid second marriage.

B. He does so without an annulment and is probably in a state of mortal sin.

Is B really preferable to you?

Don’t let this situation take over your life and poison your children’s young adult years. I’ve seen this movie before in a relative’s life–it is not a good Christian witness to your children or your grandchildren if you choose to make everything about your failed marriage and create a huge emotional black hole at the center of your extended family. For your children and your grandchildren’s sake, try to make the best of your situation and live as happy and productive a life as you can manage.

If their marriage is actually valid and he divorces her, cynically obtains a declaration of nullity by “working the system” in some way, and marries again in the Church, that will not fool God. He will be committing adultery in in mortal sin just as surely as if he’d never bothered to get his second marriage blessed by the Church at all, and in the pit worse for having mocked God and caused a scandal against the truth and against the Church.

Of course if their marriage is really invalid it would also be wrong for her to spitefully fight legal recognition of her husband’s right to pursue a valid marriage that isn’t to her.

The emotional handling of all of this is another kettle of fish. It is certainly possible to oppose a false decree of nullity without letting it become an emotional black hole. Love and the truth are not enemies. They need each other. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, it is no more loving to let a doubtful decree of nullity go through than to fight a certain one. Both of those are ethically wrong.

Now, mind you, I don’t think that everyone who has their decree of nullity reversed because their spouse fought it has been proven to have asked for the decree of nullity in bad faith. It is possible to hold a wrong opinion on this in good faith. Her husband could be doing that, too. I am only saying that if the wife has a good faith belief that her marriage is valid then her duty is to defend the truth, not to cave in so that her husband can wrongheadedly pursue what would actually be an invalid second marriage (in the eyes of God).

A contrasting situation would be if a relative takes advantage of you to get an inheritance that actually belongs to you. You can let that go, and that is no failure to defend the truth. You have a duty to defend a valid marriage, however, even if everything would be “easier” if you just let everyone pretend that the difficult but valid marriage was actually invalid. (There is a limit to how much your opposition to a finding of nullity has to impoverish you, however. Sometimes a conscientious spouse, not having the means to fight a wrong finding and not having any luck in convincing her spouse to do what is right, would simply refrain from re-marrying herself.)

 

[roseofshannon]

Originally Posted by roseofshannon View Post

Because divorce is a plague which spreads quickly within the family tree as well as society, separation rather than divorce would be the best possible outcome to our unfortunate situation. It would help form future generations in the correct understanding of marriage and would help my husband and myself in remembering that we still have a spouse, not an “ex”. But the procedure itself denies this outcome.

**Anecdotally, I don’t think that is correct. I think that, there being fewer social stigmas today than in the past, bad or troubled marriages in the parents’ generation turn into divorces in the children’s generation.

A bad marriage is not actually a good example to adult children today. It may either encourage them to divorce earlier or to avoid marriage entirely in order to avoid being like mom and dad. Nobody says, “My mom and dad suffered terribly in their marriage and hurt all of us. I want that, too!**”

According to the Catechism:

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

We have been separated for three years. The children are no longer in the middle of a bad marriage.

The with remarriage is that the kids see how happy Dad and new wife are, especially since they are older and no longer have the stresses of becoming financially established and raising a family. So when they have problems in their marriage (and they will) they will be even more tempted to dump present wife for “happiness” of the second marriage rather than do the work to preserve and repair the first one.

 

[InThePew]

Between 1982 and 1984, the Vatican overturned nearly 80 percent of the American annulments it reviewed, he wrote. As Rauch Kennedy learned, however, it can often be a long wait."

No Tribunal, at any level, has ever claimed infallibility and so the possibility of mistakes cannot be excluded. However, the problem I have with this statistic is that raw numbers (or for that matter soundbites) don’t tend to provide a complete picture. Fortunately however, Edward Peters helpfully fills in the gaps: canonlaw.info/a_annulments.htm

 

[Xantippe]

According to the Catechism:

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

We have been separated for three years. The children are no longer in the middle of a bad marriage.

The with remarriage is that the kids see how happy Dad and new wife are, especially since they are older and no longer have the stresses of becoming financially established and raising a family. So when they have problems in their marriage (and they will) they will be even more tempted to dump present wife for “happiness” of the second marriage rather than do the work to preserve and repair the first one.

That largely depends on you.

If your husband remarries outside the Church and is happy as a clam while you stew and moan while doing “the right thing” and talking about how much you are suffering to do the right thing, then yes, that is a very bad example to them from both of you.

But, if you were to live a peaceful and virtuous life without the moaning and stewing, yes, that would be a good example.

 

[Xantippe]

Again, I’ve seen a Protestant auntie go through a very similar situation, and while she was very wronged and I was very supportive at the time (for say the first 10 years), her uncontrollable decade-long grief and rage at the situation was a very, very bad thing for her teen and then adult children children. Two of them have already been divorced and remarried and one of the others seemed to avoid dating and marriage for a long time. It’s hard to say what caused that, but one contributing factor was that my auntie was so blinded by grief that she wasn’t able to be emotionally “there” for her children the way she could have been if she’d had a better handle on herself. There was a failure on her part to set an example of magnanimity and self-control, both of which are essential to a successful marriage.

It is possible to make a bad situation worse than it needs to be.

 

[roseofshannon]

Again, I’ve seen a Protestant auntie go through a very similar situation, and while she was very wronged and I was very supportive at the time (for say the first 10 years), her uncontrollable decade-long grief and rage at the situation was a very, very bad thing for her teen and then adult children children. Two of them have already been divorced and remarried and one of the others seemed to avoid dating and marriage for a long time. It’s hard to say what caused that, but one contributing factor was that my auntie was so blinded by grief that she wasn’t able to be emotionally “there” for her children the way she could have been if she’d had a better handle on herself. There was a failure on her part to set an example of magnanimity and self-control, both of which are essential to a successful marriage.

It is possible to make a bad situation worse than it needs to be.

I appreciate you sharing your story with me. I don’t think that will be a problem however. I have already forgiven him and am very discreet with whom I discuss this situation. But thanks for the warning.

 

[Xantippe]

I appreciate you sharing your story with me. I don’t think that will be a problem however. I have already forgiven him and am very discreet with whom I discuss this situation. But thanks for the warning.

Very good!

 

[JimG]

, , ,
I do not believe that he in any way has a valid reason for annulment and he would only be able to receive one through dubious means. If that is the case then I will feel abandoned by the church, but it’s happened to some of the saints before, so, so be it.
. . . .

This is a viewpoint which I hope that the upcoming Synod on the Family takes into consideration in its deliberations.

I have known several similar cases. In one, a spouse filed for divorce and annulment. The other spouse was shocked and surprised, telling me, “there is no way that this was not valid. She knew what she was doing.” The wife however, insisted that she did not know what she was doing when she got into the marriage; she in no way gave valid consent, she insisted. I’m glad it wasn’t me making the decision. The annulment was granted.

In another case, a man was cheating on his wife with another woman. He sought divorce and annulment and obtained them. The wife wanted neither and did not cooperate in them, believing that her marriage was valid from the start. She never remarried. He, of course, did.

 

[Eliza10]

Dearest roseofshannon, the Lord is close to you. I have many thoughts on what you said so I will try to harness them here.

With the threat of divorce and the issue of annulment to wrestle with, and your emotional reaction to all these things there are so many issues and it takes constant openness to knowing what is God’s will for you and what is the right thing to do. You do have to be wiling to give up your own ideas as you seek to understand the ways of Holy Mother Church and the possibility that God, and the God through His Holy Church might see things differently than you.

I understand the fierce commitment to stay married no matter what, because I have been there. I understand the belief that a vow is a vow, and you get just one chance to make that vow, and you make it for life, and you stick with it, come hell or high-water - the main thing is to stick with it forever! There is no second chance, no redo, a vow is permanent.

That idea in itself makes the whole annulment idea very - suspect. There is a tendency to mistrust this whole “anti-marriage” idea of annulment, and to look at any human flaws in the practice as proof that our Holy Mother Church has gone all-wrong allowing it.

But the idea that a vow before God is unbreakable is our own idea, not God’s. Unlike angels, we are not infallibly all-knowing when we make our vows, and some vows we make are invalid, and breakable. [A good book, a page-turner of an example, is http://www.amazon.com/Breakable-Vow-Kathryn-Ann-Clarke/dp/0060518219/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1435594634&sr=1-1&keywords=breakable+vow&pebp=1435594697092&perid=07K19T0JMSCDSWNYT67V”]here- you can get a used copy for one cent +S&H!].

(Perhaps of that book you would say, “Well, there are some marriages that should never have been, and surely that is one. But *my *husband is not that bad.” But there are other reasons a vow are breakable, according to our Church.)

I don’t know you or your husband, but a couple of things you said are red flags. When he declares it time to “move on” it sounds completely ridiculous to you (you don’t “move on” from marraige!) but I wonder, what if this is just him being him, and this is who he always was, and how he always believed, and this was always his view of marriage. When you vowed, to you, it was “as long as we both shall life” - but maybe to him, it was “as long as we both shall be happy.”

That was my ex’s philosophy, and his whole family’s mantra (“If it makes you happy!” was the be-all end-all). Of course he didn’t tell me that was his view of marriage and of life when he married me - he told me what I wanted and expected to hear. Which is what he did all his life - he knew what people wanted to hear, and he said that (and he said it well and believably!). He didn’t have to *mean *it, but he was faithful in *saying *the right thing!

Also another red flag is that you say he is “publicly known as a good Catholic guy (who privately abuses his wife”. That is extremely typical of a Narcissist Personality Disordered person (who typically has a wonderful public persona), which is very common these days, and such a person is not capable of *ever *keeping marraige vows.

Obviously I don’t know you or your husband, I am just saying those are red flags.

You say you don’t want a divorce, and you’d fight it if you could. I know. But there are things in this life you cannot change or influence. Some things are reality of this sinful world that we cannot change. The prayerful concern is to ask for God’s wisdom to know the difference between what you can change and what you cannot. And to constantly ask for His grace to help you accept reality. That can actually be impossible to do without the extraordinary help of God’s grace.

One perspective you can have is to take your heartfelt pronouncement “I don’t want a divorce” and change the word “divorce” to “my child to have cancer” or any other thing that is a nightmare that you are not going through and it will make you realized that we get called to places we do not want to go.

Yes, God hates divorce as He hates all sin in this world and wages of sin, like contagious infectious disease. He desires to make it all whole. However, He has laws He does not violate, and one of the most important is free will. If it were possible to preserve a marriage on just one person’s determination, a lot of divorce would never happen. But, it takes two persons.

You can have faith in Holy Mother Church’s tribunal process. Keep in mind the Church is infused with the Holy Spirit. You can pray through the whole process. You will have your say. Yes, they are accustomed to hearing two completely different sides of a story that absolutely don’t reconcile, and they have their ways of getting at the truth, and they will call in for interviews of both of you and also really look at what the witnesses say. You are not trusting in the tribunal, but in God working through the tribunal.

Another reason to trust the Church’s process through the tribunal is that, as EasterJoy said, you can take it all the way to the Vatican if you think God has called you to that (Or even if He hasn’t! You have that free will. But it would be better to seek His will, wouldn’t it?).

See my next post for the rest of my thoughts!

…

 

[Eliza10]

Finally, I wanted to comment on this:

…We have been separated for three years. The children are no longer in the middle of a bad marriage.

The [problem?] with remarriage is that the kids see how happy Dad and new wife are, especially since they are older and no longer have the stresses of becoming financially established and raising a family. So when they have problems in their marriage (and they will) they will be even more tempted to dump present wife for “happiness” of the second marriage rather than do the work to preserve and repair the first one.

Well, they may not be in the middle of it, but it is their life. Not what you had hoped for them and what you would fight for if you could.

I do not think living to influence what he does with his life is a good idea - I mean, having a fight to prevent his divorce, annulment, remarriage.

First of all, you cannot predict what your children will take from the actions of you and their father. It is not all that neat as you portray above, not at all. They will have their own reactions; they are individual beings who are influenced in ways you cannot influence and they will draw their own conclusions. The best thing you can do is endeavor to do the right thing day by day, endeavor to know what is God’s will and do it, knowing that, even so, sometimes you will fail miserably, because you are human. So your only hope is to pray for them, and trust God to do the work in their hearts that must be done.

Another reason such effort will backfire is that such an orientation of yours will simply be fuel for him to try even harder and more dramatically to show the world he has a PERFECT marraige *now *and is his life is amazingly happy in the 2nd marriage, so - it must have been “awful-you” that made him have to divorce - certainly not any failings of his own!

If that path he takes you cannot influence it, or any path he takes, except through prayer for the help of God. Its a painful situation you are in, and it will have to be a constant effort on your part to put him and your children in God’s hands and live day to day doing what is right for that day.

 

[His_helpmeet]

I am not divorced, but my DH is and received a declaration of nullity. (His ex-wife committed adultery and then left him. There was clear evidence the marriage was never valid - it was largely a shot-gun wedding to help him stay in the country so he could be a father to their baby, as he was from outside the country.) Here are a few things I can tell about the Church’s attitude towards marriage and nullity:

1. Divorce is, indeed, condemned by the Church as a moral evil. However, there MAY be situations where a person may be permitted to seek a civil divorce, such as in the case of adultery, abuse, or abandonment. In such cases a civil divorce can provide some protection for the victimized spouse and/or the children. In such cases it is generally advisable that the victimized spouse do all he/she can to make the marriage work as well as possible, but if that fails and/or there’s clear evidence it is dangerous for the person to stay in the marriage (for example, in the case of serious abuse) it’s not wrong for the person to seek divorce with a clear conscience. There is also no absolute requirement that a spouse consider reconciling with a spouse who has committed adultery. It’s encouraged, but not required.
2. Divorce is generally a requirement for a nullity screening, as a PP stated, because it shows that there is no hope of reconciliation between the couple. On top of that, as the PP stated, there are also civil matters to consider. A declaration of nullity is a Church matter ONLY. It has NO bearing on civil law.
3. A nullity trial generally can’t turn into a “he said, she said” because there must be other evidence beyond what the couple brings to the table. You must have at least 3 witnesses in a nullity trial in addition to the two spouses. The petitioner must also (at least in our area) have a form filled out by the priest/pastoral assistant that indicates how familiar that person is with the couple’s marital issues and their assessment of the petitioner’s character and truthfulness. If your local priest is familiar with your partner’s character, he can indicate this on the form which will affect the tribunal’s perception of your partner. Additional evidence, such as police reports, counselling reports, medical reports, etc. can also be requested by the tribunal and/or may be included in the initial petition if the petitioner feels it is relevant. (For example, someone could include a copy of a domestic abuse report from a police call.)
4. (This is assuming that he is the one petitioning, which would make you the respondent.) As the respondent, you have the right to be notified that he is pursuing a declaration of nullity. You also have the right to give evidence. The tribunal will contact you and ask if you’d like to come to an interview. You have the right to accept or to decline. Generally, once all of the evidence is in, both parties will be informed that a decree has been issued which gives you a certain amount of time to review the evidence. You can make an appointment with the tribunal if you wish to view the evidence. Some of it may be redacted, but most of it should be available. (DH declined to view it because his ex refused to participate, and he had selected the witnesses himself, so he knew what their testimony would contain.) I believe that at that point you may be able to formally petition to dispute the evidence if you feel some of it is inaccurate; however, DH did not go through this process so you’d have to ask someone else to be sure.
5. (This is assuming you were married in the Catholic Church.) The Church requires that you go through a formal marriage preparation prior to getting married. Sometimes known as “pre-Cana” this includes marriage preparation classes and/or sessions, as well as meetings with the priest. The goal is to inform couples of the obligations and nature of marriage, prepare them for the realities of married life, and identify any possible conditions that could render the marriage invalid. Obviously, we know this doesn’t always happen, but the goal is that no one married in the Church should be able to successfully petition for a declaration of nullity because all of those factors should have been considered and identified prior to the wedding, and if something is found to be lacking, it should have been addressed or the priest should have advised the couple they are unable to marry in the Church.

You should know that CAF does have annulment support groups, and I think there may be a support group for spouses in situations similar to yours, who believe their marriages were valid and have chosen not to pursue and/or accept a declaration of nullity.

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t know you or your husband, but a couple of things you said are red flags. When he declares it time to “move on” it sounds completely ridiculous to you (you don’t “move on” from marraige!) but I wonder, what if this is just him being him, and this is who he always was, and how he always believed, and this was always his view of marriage. When you vowed, to you, it was “as long as we both shall life” - but maybe to him, it was “as long as we both shall be happy.”

Also another red flag is that you say he is “publicly known as a good Catholic guy (who privately abuses his wife”. That is extremely typical of a Narcissist Personality Disordered person (who typically has a wonderful public persona), which is very common these days, and such a person is not capable of *ever *keeping marraige vows.

Obviously I don’t know you or your husband, I am just saying those are red flags.

Very true.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I wish him nothing but the best of all things.

To answer your question-- the reason is that the church does not want to be seen to be pushing divorce. Read what you quoted from the catechism. Separation is preferable to divorce, if folk are willing to continue in a marriage even in separation, has it irrevocably broken down? Or is there still hope? Divorce can be acceptable to protect financial interests, or for safety. Imagine two folks living together in marriage with one partner having filed a petition for a declaration of nullity, heh I’ll continue working on things but if the church gives me the green light I am so outa here!! Not really conducive to a healthy marriage in my opinion.

Secondly-- if you wish your husband the best of all things, why not cooperate in the petition for a declaration of nullity? Why continue to lay a claim on someone if it is invalid? Think about your kids-- mine saw it as incredibly unfair of the church to demand that I live a single celibate life despite what my wife was doing. They thought I deserved someone. Had to patiently explain the church wasn’t forcing me or demanding for me to do anything. I was living up to the vows I took willingly. My choice, the church could not force me to do anything, just preach the truth and allow me to choose. You can’t control the other person, only yourself.

So, if your kids are well catechized, they do know there is an option available to legitimately determine of the marriage was valid. There is nothing wrong or immoral about your husband filing a petition. Why begrudge him finding out? Will he be more content and committed to single life, less tempted to drift into something if he receives a definitive answer. If he doesn’t have the ‘maybe…’ floating in the back of his mind if he meets someone.

So… slightly different situation in that my wife didn’t stick to the church’s teachings, she left the church. She took up with someone but wouldn’t file a petition. What to do, what to do. Some twisted comfort admittedly in holding onto the fact that regardless of the divorce (6 months, no fault state) We were still married! She was wrong! 22 years of marriage had to be valid! She shouldn’t be doing this! I still had a claim on her as her husband. But I wanted her to have a chance at reconciliation with the church, I wished her nothing but the best of all things. Including the Eucharist and companionship/marriage if that was possible.

Talk is cheap, whisky costs money. So, I filed a petition for a declaration of nullity. Wouldn’t do much for me-- wasn’t dating, still not — maybe when my kids have all moved out-- no immediate benefit to me. Did have a psychological benefit- a putting it in the hands of God and letting go of those twisted comfort thoughts.

But for her–? Didn’t think it had much chance, but the process certainly answered a lot of questions for me-- witness statements provide information I hadn’t been aware of, a different perspective on things. Priest/advocate saw grounds, as it went through the process the tribunal saw additional grounds. Bottom line, declaration of nullity was received.

LXSNW (legally ex, sacramentally never was) has talked about coming back to the church with my daughter. My kids are more supportive of the church, they saw the process as an attempt to be fair and just vice dictatorial.

My advice- participate, read the witness statements and the decision, learn about yourself. He’ll get an answer, it may not be what he likes but it will provide additional guidance, confirmation of how to live in accordance with the church.

 

[Xantippe]

To answer your question-- the reason is that the church does not want to be seen to be pushing divorce. Read what you quoted from the catechism. Separation is preferable to divorce, if folk are willing to continue in a marriage even in separation, has it irrevocably broken down? Or is there still hope? Divorce can be acceptable to protect financial interests, or for safety. Imagine two folks living together in marriage with one partner having filed a petition for a declaration of nullity, heh I’ll continue working on things but if the church gives me the green light I am so outa here!! Not really conducive to a healthy marriage in my opinion.

Secondly-- if you wish your husband the best of all things, why not cooperate in the petition for a declaration of nullity? Why continue to lay a claim on someone if it is invalid? Think about your kids-- mine saw it as incredibly unfair of the church to demand that I live a single celibate life despite what my wife was doing. They thought I deserved someone. Had to patiently explain the church wasn’t forcing me or demanding for me to do anything. I was living up to the vows I took willingly. My choice, the church could not force me to do anything, just preach the truth and allow me to choose. You can’t control the other person, only yourself.

So, if your kids are well catechized, they do know there is an option available to legitimately determine of the marriage was valid. There is nothing wrong or immoral about your husband filing a petition. Why begrudge him finding out? Will he be more content and committed to single life, less tempted to drift into something if he receives a definitive answer. If he doesn’t have the ‘maybe…’ floating in the back of his mind if he meets someone.

So… slightly different situation in that my wife didn’t stick to the church’s teachings, she left the church. She took up with someone but wouldn’t file a petition. What to do, what to do. Some twisted comfort admittedly in holding onto the fact that regardless of the divorce (6 months, no fault state) We were still married! She was wrong! 22 years of marriage had to be valid! She shouldn’t be doing this! I still had a claim on her as her husband. But I wanted her to have a chance at reconciliation with the church, I wished her nothing but the best of all things. Including the Eucharist and companionship/marriage if that was possible.

Talk is cheap, whisky costs money. So, I filed a petition for a declaration of nullity. Wouldn’t do much for me-- wasn’t dating, still not — maybe when my kids have all moved out-- no immediate benefit to me. Did have a psychological benefit- a putting it in the hands of God and letting go of those twisted comfort thoughts.

But for her–? Didn’t think it had much chance, but the process certainly answered a lot of questions for me-- witness statements provide information I hadn’t been aware of, a different perspective on things. Priest/advocate saw grounds, as it went through the process the tribunal saw additional grounds. Bottom line, declaration of nullity was received.

LXSNW (legally ex, sacramentally never was) has talked about coming back to the church with my daughter. My kids are more supportive of the church, they saw the process as an attempt to be fair and just vice dictatorial.

My advice- participate, read the witness statements and the decision, learn about yourself. He’ll get an answer, it may not be what he likes but it will provide additional guidance, confirmation of how to live in accordance with the church.

Very true.

The witness testimony may be surprisingly helpful. Just in the case of my own childhood history, I’ve find it very helpful to talk to my sister. There were all sorts of things that she correctly remembered that I had forgotten or never known.