Hello dmar,
On one level, this sounds reasonable. I think we do have to clearly announce that Adam and Eve committed a mortal sin, though. Scripture says they sinned in the passages that have been quoted through this thread, and there is good evidence that the sin was mortal.
We
have to?
You don’t always have to realize the full impact of a mortal sin for it to count as mortal, but you do have to fully realize that the sin you are committing is a grave one. It is in this sense that I think a person can be defended for saying that Adam and Eve should be blamed. In their case, we know that they did not act in pure ignorance, because if they did, it would not have been a sin. At least, that’s my understanding. What do you think?
Well, rather than make assumptions, when I go about understanding why people do things I start with the question, “Why did she do that?”. Then I take it from there. A priest once told me, “It is not to condemn or condone, but understand.” I use that as a guide in the understanding process.
It is? Can you give an example of this controversy playing out? (If you can’t, that’s fine, but I would be interested to know if there are actual scholarly works discussing this.) One possible good: waiting until they repent seems to fulfill the Scripture which says, “If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him.” (Luke 17:3) Scripture seems to give us a condition here: the “ifs” mean something. It doesn’t just say “forgive him,” it says, “if he repents, forgive him.” At least sometimes, I think we are supposed to wait before forgiving until the other person has repented. Priests are actually required to retain someone’s sins until they have repented.
Priests are required to retain sins? Fascinating! Do tell me more. I have never found a reason not to forgive, though sometimes it takes some time. A priest told this restriction is bound to be enslaved by resentment if a person never repents. Very strange. Could you find me a source for this requirement? I am truly interested, not cynical.
The beautiful and merciful passage is in Luke 23:34 – “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” I wonder how that works with other passages that seem to say forgiveness is conditioned on repentance (like 1 John 1:9)? Are there some wicked acts which can be forgiven without repentance? Acts done in ignorance? I’d love to find out. Thank you for bringing this tension to my attention.
Here is something to add to the tension:
Mark 11:25New International Version (NIV)
25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
You see, the condition is absent in this verse. Indeed, if the condition is promoted, people would have excuses to never forgive their enemies, which is not the holiness we are called to. That said, I am also convinced that the tension is there for a very good reason. Arguably, there are two distinct Gospel messages, and both have their reasons and merits.
Yes, that is in Acts 3:17 – “I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.” It reminds me of Scripture: “[Remember] thy tender mercies and thy loving-kindnesses; for they are from everlasting.” (Psalms 25:6) If God’s mercy is from eternity, and His forgiveness is a kind of mercy, then it seems to follow that His forgiveness is from everlasting.
Thanks for that verse from the Psalms, wonderful! I love the divinity found in absolutes.
I look at it from an experiential position. When I forgive at the deepest level, I am understanding everything about the person’s point of view, which takes some awareness and reflection. Given that our Father is omniscient, He does not have to go through the time-consuming process of enlightenment. And then, when situations are such that I see something violent brewing, and I can see the limit of a person’s awareness, I can predict a hurtful behavior and understand it’s likely occurrence without ever taking offense. I can see things that are awful and saddening, but the offense (my resentment) is absent. Does our Father have a more reactive approach than that I described? It’s hard to imagine.
Does God, from eternity, prearrange His forgiveness so that it takes effect at the moment of our repentance? I don’t know. But thank you for your enlightening comments, and any more you may have.
Another great question. And well, given His omniscience we can conclude that God knew every bad act that we would ever do, even before hitting the “create” button. Did He see, then take offense, then choose to hold onto His resentment until each and every person repents? This is difficult to relate to, and does not present our creator as revealed in Christ.
Instead, we are called to “be perfect, as our heavenly Father is perfect”, and in context that is a merciful perfection. If God’s forgiveness is conditional, then conditional forgiveness is perfect, and we are to practice the same. However, such conditional forgiveness on our part runs contrary to one side of the “tension” we are discussing.
Thanks for your charitable tone…
