Why is everyone obsessed with Hell?

[CRV]

Not flagging … :crazy_face: just kidding. And I’m not commenting about the kitties remark, cause I don’t want to derail bears thread any further

I don’t understand why people continue to derail the thread. This has nothing to do with why people are obsessed with Hell. I’ve asked nicely twice that the discussion be continued somewhere else and it’s still just going and going here like the Energizer Bunny. I haven’t flagged because I’m trying to be nice. Why are you people continuing with this?

 

[John10]

I agree with you love drives away fear, so we should serve our Lord out of love for Him, instead of just to avoid Hell or obtain Heaven.

However, given the terrifying and unspeakable torments the souls in Hell have to endure, with no relief and forever, I can’t think of a worse fate. We struggle a lot with life difficulties (even though God limits them and are always temporary) how much worse would it be to experience suffering forever with no relief and no hope of things improving ? It is really terrifying.

After all I am sure many have returned to our Lord at least initially out of fear from being thrown into Hell.

 

[Economist]

Why are people so obsessed with Hell instead of wanting to be good people, loving their neighbors and building a relationship with God?

Unfortunately I have no idea. I can only tell what the concept of hell did to me, way back then when I was quite young one and a believer. When I was very young, no one has ever told me about hell. All I was told that God loves us, and we were taught to pray every night and give thanks for his love.

Then, when I first heard of hell, eternal suffering, I thought that the one who told me that - was joking. How can a loving God punish anyone with eternal torture? It simply made no sense. But that did not shake my faith in God. Surely it was some misunderstanding, some error. But then I grew up, and started to use my brain. I compared the reality to the teaching that God is all love. The reality was incompatible with the teaching. That was the time when my faith was shattered. And never recovered.

Yes, the usual problem of evil was the culprit for my loss of faith. In a sense it was “too bad”. Life was so much easier. But as Paul said (in 1 Corinthians 13:11), “When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.” Once out of the cocoon there is no way back.

Sorry, for the intrusion. Maybe I should have kept quiet. Best wishes to all of you.

 

[Pug]

Lots of Catholics lack a community of believers who are visibly living the whole faith. You have to guess well or be fairly blessed to integrate a rule without seeing how it is lived. Probably there are a fair number of people on the internet who lack a community resource.

Plus I think the culture questions hell, so a Christian is made to confront it or ignore the questions of their friends.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Oops - that should be “vale of tears.” To repeat, any religion that focuses on sin, Satan, and salvation is bound to be obsessed with hell…and heaven.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Still, the worst reason to willingly serve God is better than the best reason to put off doing it.

I really, REALLY like the way you put this.

Never heard it said quite this way before, but you are absolutely correct.

 

[PetraG]

Oops - that should be “vale of tears.” To repeat, any religion that focuses on sin, Satan, and salvation is bound to be obsessed with hell…and heaven.

I don’t know that it is “bound” to be obsessed, except in the sense that the temptation will of course be there to reduce it to that–that is, to focus on what there is that really is a reason for fear, rather than to focus on the Reason there is to “be not afraid.”

The only situation in which no one will be afraid of Hell is if there is assuredly no chance whatsoever of going there.

 

[Pug]

any religion that focuses on sin, Satan, and salvation

Honestly to me it seems more focused on prayer, worship, liturgy, and the like. Also being there for others. Certainly not Satan. Movies, however, like Satan and confessionals.

If I am trying to conform myself to Christ, most sins are simply unhelpful to that goal, a distraction. However, focusing on them would also be unhelpful to that goal. So I don’t think sin really cuts it as a focus of the religion.

Salvation? Yes, I do think Christians express a yearning to see Him face to face. But in the day to day stuff it seems more about what I said (but prayer does contain some of the reaching out to Him, in addition to being together right now).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I was very young, no one has ever told me about hell. All I was told that God loves us, and we were taught to pray every night and give thanks for his love.

Then, when I first heard of hell, eternal suffering, I thought that the one who told me that - was joking.

Just curious as to how old were you when you found out about Hell, and how did you find out?

 

[GiftofMercy]

It is a common and natural first step for those just starting out in the devout life. St. Catherine of Siena’s Dialogue has some good passages about this, calling fear of punishment as a first step “the ordinary call.” This fear is often what motivates a person to first rise up from sin toward the life of grace. It motivates us to cleanse our soul of sin, which gives us a peace of conscience that allows us to perceive and respond to those graces calling us to take the next step.

From there, with the help of God’s grace, we must take that second step toward love of virtue and love of God, where salvation is truly found.

amen to this… Its part of the journey.

Being sorry for our sins because we might end up in hell is imperfect contrition if I understand rightly.

 

[meltzerboy2]

A poor choice of words on my part.

 

[Economist]

Just curious as to how old were you when you found out about Hell, and how did you find out?

Since it does not belong here, I will answer in a PM. Oops, your profile is hidden. Is there a way to send a PM?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You can PM me by typing my username directly in the PM box.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

To repeat, any religion that focuses on sin, Satan, and salvation

I wasn’t aware that my religion was focused on sin and Satan. Salvation? Yes. Sin and Satan? Not really. In my experience, we are focused on love of God, love of neighbor and growing in holiness. Sin plays a role, but I’d never characterize it as the focus.

Again, on this forum? Sure. There are a lot of scrupulous, anxious, and/or OCD people on this forum. So sure, there are a lot of questions about sin and Satan, but this forum is not representative of what it is like to live the faith offline.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wasn’t aware that my religion was focused on sin and Satan. Salvation? Yes. Sin and Satan? Not really. In my experience, we are focused on love of God, love of neighbor and growing in holiness. Sin plays a role, but I’d never characterize it as the focus.

I wasn’t aware of it either. It seems like the world is divided into two groups: one who thinks that Catholicism, and maybe even Christianity in general, is all about sin and hell and judgment, and another who thinks that it’s all about the love of Jesus - in extreme cases even ignoring the fact that they might be committing bad sins. I’ve primarily been in the “love of Jesus” category my whole life despite being raised by pre-Vatican II parents. But I’ve met enough people who were in the other camp that I just kind of wonder how both camps are existing in the same religious tradition.

I know there are people who have OCD/ scruples etc and are more fixated on the “sin” part and that this forum draws a lot of those people who are looking for some kind of help or reassurance.

I also know there are families who emphasize sin to the point of turning their kids off to Catholicism because they just see it as some sort of fascistic rule system, often enforced by a rigid, controlling or in worst cases abusive parent. I have known some of these families. My own fortunately wasn’t that way or I probably would have left the Church.

However, lots of people don’t have either of the above two situations and yet end up leaning towards one camp or the other. I was just wondering why that was.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I also know there are families who emphasize sin to the point of turning their kids off to Catholicism because they just see it as some sort of fascistic rule system, often enforced by a rigid, controlling or in worst cases abusive parent. I have known some of these families. My own fortunately wasn’t that way or I probably would have left the Church.

You are right, and it makes me sad. These folks are really missing out the beauty and joy of the faith. As others have mentioned, keeping God’s commands out of fear of punishment is the first step. We should not get stuck there.

The following is one of my favorite passages of scripture, and one that the sin obsessed should really pray about. As we grow in holiness, we grow in love of God. And, when you act out of Love as opposed to fear, we start to experience the joy that is life in Christ!

“When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:11-13‬ ‭RSV-CI‬‬

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My mother repeated that “When I was a child” verse to me every time I said something kind of stupid as a kid or a young teen and it DROVE ME CRAZY.

Then I became a huge Todd Rundgren fan and found out he had a song (“Real Man”) that opened with the exact same Bible verse! That probably made me like it a little more.

Now that I’m the age my mother was then, I see she was right and I was thinking like a child, speaking like a child, etc.

I do like the “see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face” part. That there is some of Paul’s best work. The fact that somebody from 2000 years ago can so capture the feelings (and a lot of other people) I still have today is amazing. Human nature really does not change all that much across the centuries.

 

[HolyWarrior]

 

[Economist]

The following is one of my favorite passages of scripture, and one that the sin obsessed should really pray about. ‭(‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:11-13‬ )

My mother repeated that “When I was a child” verse to me every time I said something kind of stupid as a kid or a young teen and it DROVE ME CRAZY.

So very interesting that both of you quote the same verse. For me it means the exact opposite, namely: “a child has no reasoning power, they believe whatever they are told”. When you grow up, you discard the uncritical, unquestioning faith, and use reason - wherever it leads you. Even if it leads you to the total opposite that your accepted on faith. Isn’t that interesting?

By the way, when there is a conversation about hell, I always recall The book by John Furniss: “The sight of hell”.

You are going to see again the child about which you read in the Terrible Judgement, that it was condemned to hell. See! It is a pitiful sight. The little child is in this red hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out. See how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor of the oven. You can see on the face of this little child what you see on the faces of all in hell-- despair, desperate and horrible!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

So very interesting that both of you quote the same verse. For me it means the exact opposite, namely: “a child has no reasoning power, they believe whatever they are told”. When you grow up, you discard the uncritical, unquestioning faith, and use reason - wherever it leads you. Even if it leads you to the total opposite that your accepted on faith. Isn’t that interesting?

That’s not what it meant to me.

It meant to me that “when you’re a child, you don’t have the experience or wisdom yet to understand all the stuff you say or think, and you’ll probably change your mind as you age”.

There are some beliefs I had as a child that I retained into adulthood. However, there are many, many more where I realize now that I was either speaking as a stupid kid, or that because I was a kid I only had one part of the picture and the other parts of the picture, and a deeper understanding, came with age.

It had absolutely nothing to do with questioning or not questioning or believing without questioning. The stuff I was talking about also wasn’t something on the order of questioning faith or whether God existed. It was more of a moral teaching or life skills type issue in my case. I never doubted God existed or lacked faith in him even when I was at my lowest as a non-practicing Catholic committing the kinds of mortal sins that even secular atheists in today’s society would probably think were bad. That was not because I was great or special or lacked critical reasoning skills. Faith is a gift from God and apparently I got a big helping of it because God decided I needed that.

I’ll stop there because going off on a tangent of children being allowed to question or not question is leading us away from the topic at hand.