Why is extremist Islam so attractive to men, compared to Christianity?

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Okay, first I want to make two points.
  1. I explained clearly that when the text is clear some Muslims make it read in a very nice way while others interpret it literally; which can lead to extremism.
  2. When we criticize Islam we’re criticizing an ideology. You can play the victim “shame on you” card all you want but your Religion is not above scrutiny. Did I say all Muslims do “X”? No. I said some do some don’t, and you’re now playing the victim card which I will freely admit a lot of Muslims do.
But here was your answer to the question of wife beating and your attempt to whitewash.
And I believe it was a sad, sad answer because you still admitted that it’s okay to beat ones wife, which is never okay.

**The next step, if both the admonishment and refusal of sex is not working then, and only then, is it permissible is to beat her. **

The purpose of the admonishing, refusing sex and beating is to get the wife back to obeying Allah
This is the moderate interpretation and it’s still horrible.
I have to say that dronald is completely correct here drac 16 as is proved by the sentences in bold extracted from your post concerning surah 4:34. The part I find concerning is:** to get the wife back to obeying Allah**. However, you are not alone in trying to put a positive spin on what is “said to be Holy Scripture”. The God in the Old Testament comes across all too often as a blood thirsty wrathful being who does a kind of Jihad for the Jews over the pagans. God takes direct action and also condones action by the Jews in killing INFANTS and CHILDREN, RAPE and PILLAGE. I read on a fundamentalist Protestant Christian website that God was doing these infants and children “a favour” by killing them because if He allowed them to grow up, they would have worshiped a pagan god which would have meant that they would have gone to hell for eternity. It makes your failed attempt to put a positive spin on surah 4:34 look quite tame.
 
Okay, first I want to make two points.
  1. I explained clearly that when the text is clear some Muslims make it read in a very nice way while others interpret it literally; which can lead to extremism.
  2. When we criticize Islam we’re criticizing an ideology. You can play the victim “shame on you” card all you want but your Religion is not above scrutiny. Did I say all Muslims do “X”? No. I said some do some don’t, and you’re now playing the victim card which I will freely admit a lot of Muslims do.
But here was your answer to the question of wife beating and your attempt to whitewash.
And I believe it was a sad, sad answer because you still admitted that it’s okay to beat ones wife, which is never okay.

**The next step, if both the admonishment and refusal of sex is not working then, and only then, is it permissible is to beat her. **

The purpose of the admonishing, refusing sex and beating is to get the wife back to obeying Allah
This is the moderate interpretation and it’s still horrible.
I have to say that dronald is completely correct here drac 16 as is proved by the sentences in bold extracted from your post concerning surah 4:34. Dronald is also completely correct in saying: “your Religion is not above scrutiny”. Islam desperately needs a lot of scrutiny considering the violent actions of Muslims in the World. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe scrutiny of Islam in the Muslim World would not be treated as freely as it is here in the Western World? Furthermore, dronald is completely correct in saying: “playing the victim card which I will freely admit a lot of Muslims do”.

The part I find concerning is:** to get the wife back to obeying Allah**. However, you are not alone in trying to put a positive spin on what is “said to be Holy Scripture”. The God in the Old Testament comes across all too often as a blood thirsty wrathful being who does a kind of Jihad for the Jews over the pagans. God takes direct action and also condones action by the Jews in killing INFANTS and CHILDREN, RAPE and PILLAGE. I read on a fundamentalist Protestant Christian website that God was doing these infants and children “a favour” by killing them because if He allowed them to grow up, they would have worshiped a pagan god which would have meant that they would have gone to hell for eternity. It makes your failed attempt to put a positive spin on surah 4:34 look quite tame.
 
I didn’t read the rest of the thread, just the question itself.

In my mind, the reason is because of the narrative offered by Jihadists.
First, jihad is a divine calling. It is something God, in His Word (Qu’ran) bids you to do.
Second, it offers purpose and inspiration. The jihadists see themselves as waging a noble battle on the side of the good.
Third, it is adventure. You’re not living the boring 9-5 rut. No, you’re out on a divine mission, fighting the infidels.

Sounds like fun right? Well if you’re a young impressionable man, yes. And I think a lot of these guys probably have good intentions somewhere in there.

Of course, this is all religious propaganda that brainwashes and takes advantage of their naivete for a diabolical purpose. Its like an evil purpose disguised under the cloak of a good one.

Contrast that with the state of Christianity today. In a secularized world where people don’t really feel the living breathing spirit of religion in their every day lives. I don’t feel that modern Christianity is necessarily offering people a way where they can meaningfully integrate it into their lives. Islam on the other hand is all encompassing. Christianity as a way of life conflicts with our secular values.

So this is the position I am in. How do I find a way to be a faithful Christian in the real world, where my faith really means something and matters?

I would choose christianity first, secularism second, and islam / death by the sword last.
 
I think the premise is overdrawn. A relative handful of men from the “first world” seem to have become radicalized. And the answer isn’t to be found in parsing Islam for degrees of extremism,or lack of extremism. The more relevant question is really what was alluded to in one of the posts - the feminizing, or perceived feminizing, of Christianity - again, in the “first world.” Many, many cultural and sociological factors here. Several generations ago men were expected to be the spiritual head of the family. Religion - Christianity specifically - was integrated into the culture. Somewhere along the line men fell from - or were pushed from - the train. If we look around the world, Islam, Buddhism, the Sikh faith, Shintoism, comservative and Orthodox Judaism: these are male-dominated, faith and its active practice are integrated into daily life, and men see their adherence to their faith as part of their male identity. But in the West – no, by and large. The reasons for this could fill multiple Ph.D. theses. Christianity is seen as passive and feminized, and and male identity has been molded by a culture that goes out of its way to demean religion, and has replaced that niche in male identity with the hypnotic televised mixture of sports and beer. Gender feminism has also had a role in this, as have many other factors.
I find myself agreeing with this in part.

I recall some cultural commentator; might have been Kenneth Clark, declaring that certain religions are assertively “masculine” in manifestation. Among those, he listed Orthodox Judaism, Islam and Lutheranism. Now, keep in mind that was written some time ago.

What he found in common among them was a sort of windswept plainness as opposed to a more feminine ornateness, and a kind of assertiveness that relegated women to “Kinder, Kirche, Kuchen”.

On the other hand, he commented at how Catholic churches, particularly in Europe are “full of women and babies”, and, by comparison with Lutheran churches both in Europe and here, that’s an apt comparison at least as to decor.

He suggested that there was additional meaning to that, e.g., how northern Europe (mostly Protestant) was more assertive and, well, acquisitive, than central or southern Europe on the whole. In his time, that was regarded as being correct as well.

But it would be incorrect to say that Catholicism or Christianity as a whole is “feminine” or “effeminate”. If one looks at the religious makeup of the armed forces, one finds a high degree of religiosity. Interestingly, the composition of the Air Force Academy is disproportionately Catholic. Also, if one looks at older churches, one finds a reasonable representation of very masculine men. In the cathedrals of Europe there are mailed knights represented. St. Patrick, in Irish churches in America, is represented as a very robust fellow taking it out on the snakes, and no one could accuse St. Michael of being an effeminate representation as he spears Satan from horseback. In some parishes, like my own, Jesus on the crucifix is a well-muscled representation, robust despite his tortured condition.

But of course, masculinity is in disrepute in our modern society, so instead of grandeur designed to inspire awe in men and boys, we find “intimate worship spaces” in which no one at all is represented to speak of other than near-cadaverous representations of Jesus or some saint.

Now, I don’t know whether there is any greater degree of willing conversion among men from Christianity to Islam than was ever the case for the last millenium or so. I have my doubts, at least outside prisons. It is my belief that these guys from the U.S. or Britain or wherever who convert and go to fight with ISIS are anomalous personalities. One asks oneself whether it is Islam that makes them murderous, or whether they are sociopathic and turn to Islam because they perceive it as justifying being murderous. If the latter, then Islam needs to look at itself and figure out what it is about Islam that seems to be more open to such people than are some other religions. And it needs to do something to correct it; assuming it has the desire to do it. (Yes, I know, Islam is a diverse as is American protestantism only more so.)

It is, however, possible that Catholicism could benefit from a return to architectural grandeur and robust representations of male figures. I still favor giving boys a “role” on the altar peculiar to themselves. It could be beneficial if there were some favorable stories of heroes in school, including in Catholic schools, instead of so many stories about boys or men who “came to see the error of their ways” in being boys or men.

I still think Catholic churches should be “full of women and babies”. Boys and young men should see those representations. Respect, even reverence for femininity should sink into their conscious and subconscious minds. But at the same time, boys are not girls and men are not women, and I think emphasizing a better role; perhaps simply a role at all, for boys and men in society is long overdue. I think a better balance can be, and ought to be, struck.
 
I didn’t read the rest of the thread, just the question itself.

In my mind, the reason is because of the narrative offered by Jihadists.
First, jihad is a divine calling. It is something God, in His Word (Qu’ran) bids you to do.
Second, it offers purpose and inspiration. The jihadists see themselves as waging a noble battle on the side of the good.
Third, it is adventure. You’re not living the boring 9-5 rut. No, you’re out on a divine mission, fighting the infidels.

Sounds like fun right? Well if you’re a young impressionable man, yes. And I think a lot of these guys probably have good intentions somewhere in there.

Of course, this is all religious propaganda that brainwashes and takes advantage of their naivete for a diabolical purpose. Its like an evil purpose disguised under the cloak of a good one.

Contrast that with the state of Christianity today. In a secularized world where people don’t really feel the living breathing spirit of religion in their every day lives. I don’t feel that modern Christianity is necessarily offering people a way where they can meaningfully integrate it into their lives. Islam on the other hand is all encompassing. Christianity as a way of life conflicts with our secular values.

So this is the position I am in. How do I find a way to be a faithful Christian in the real world, where my faith really means something and matters?

I would choose christianity first, secularism second, and islam / death by the sword last.
I noticed that a lot of young men who are converting to Islam are in prison. These young men are marginalized and feel that they do not have stake in society. Now here comes a religion that says they too can be a part of something bigger, by being a holy warrior, in a battle against the forces of unbelief. None of these turn the other cheek teaching of Christianity. This makes Islam very attractive to disenfranchised men.
 
I did some research on the gender of converts to Islam. From this article in the British Daily Mail newspaper, there are twice as many women as there are men converting to Islam in the Western World. Not sure how reliable this information is?
dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1324039/Like-Lauren-Booth-ARE-modern-British-career-women-converting-Islam.html

The above article starts with a Muslim woman who has dumped Islam. It was a good introduction to the Faith Freedom website below which claims 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year. The website claims that conversions at this rate will make Islam insignificant in Africa in a couple of decades. I wonder what the net gain/loss is between Islam and Atheists converting to Christianity compared to Christians and Atheists converting to Islam
faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103.htm

I have also read on other websites what has already been said on this forum that people are converting to Islam because of the decadent pop culture in the Western World. I have nieces who are always posting on Facebook how big a hangover they have from the night before. They seem to spend every Friday and Saturday night in clubs dancing and getting drunk. With the exception of binge drinking, women seem to be far more accepting than men of this pop culture which includes gay rights. As has already been mentioned on this forum, a conservative religion would therefore be more appealing to men. There has also been a period where it was OK to make men look stupid or weak compared to women in films and advertisements but not the other way around. This seems to have been reduced lately because of “men’s rights”.

I also noted in the website below that African Americans are more likely to convert to Islam.
garyfouse.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/why-do-so-many-african-americans.html
 
I also noted in the website below that African Americans are more likely to convert to Islam.
Yes, and many black men in prisons are converting to Islam. I can’t imagine what the attraction is, unless black anger finds a better expression through Islam than it does through Christianity. Islam certainly emphasizes the domination of women by men. So I don’t see what the appeal of Islam would be to converting white or black women. It’s certainly difficult to imagine what the appeal of Islam would be to converting atheists unless it be viewed as a swing from one extreme of the pendulum to the other extreme.
 
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