Why is God angry in the OT but loving in the NT?

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I asked this question in RCIA and got a politician’s answer. I can’t remember what he said, but to be honest once I realised he wasn’t answering my question I switched off. The session was meant to be on Sin & Salvation, and responded by talking about how humanity has always sinned throughout creation, therefore its important to be aware of Sin… huh? He also said that its important to remember that the OT is a historical document mainly… huh? I thought this was meant to be an answer to the question I… nevermind.

I have a reputation for asking awkward questions at RCIA like this, but I have studied Christian Philosophy and Theology and been raised going to Sunday School, so my questions are probably on a higher level than the ones they’re used to. Most of the other catchumen either don’t ask questions or ask only for clarification.

Anyway, I’m an intelligent person and a very scripture-wise Christian (non-demonical) friend said to me that its often said that the God in the OT is a different one to the NT. He does only believe in one God, but it was meant as an observation.

I can see how people can think that. In the OT, God is angry and vengeful. He orders wars, kills many in the Great Flood and seems to deal out a lot of punishment. There is a great deal in the OT which is offensive to me - for example, a man lives with his son and daughter. Loads of men are banging on his door because they want to rape his son, but that man steps out and says something like “Do not rape my son because it is a grevious sin to commit sodomy! Have my daughter instead!” - who later died? I mean, how loving is that to be in the OT? How is God loving and forgiving if the Great Flood happened?

Then we move onto the NT. Everything is about peace, love thy neighbour, God’s love, forgiveness… I’m unsurprised when people ask if that is the same God.

Yes the above is a very simple overview of the OT and NT, but I’m not very knowledgeable about scripture - and I’m not the first person to say that God appears totally different to a newcomer to the faith in each book.
 
The OT is about 5 times larger in size than the NT, so there is a lot more in there to talk about.

While I understand the observation, the fact is it’s only in the NT were hellfire is mentioned and Jesus and the Epistles frequently talk about unbeliever and sinnners being damned. In the OT, the focus was more on earthly punishments and rewards, in the NT, it’s more focused on eternal punishments and rewards.

And the NT has it’s own share of scares as well, for example a husband and wife are struck dead instantly for lying about their alms (Acts 5), Judas hangs himself and gushes out his insides (Acts 1), a few Disciples are murdered (Acts 7), and the Jews are said to be murdered and cast off (1 Thess 2:14-16) and a “synogogue of satan” (Rev 3).
 
I think there is an even balance of justice and mercy in the Old Testament and in the new since you have mention the harsh bits how about Isaiah who talks of mercy and compassion and forgiveness and peace,1:18 “Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.” and Joel who speaks of a God who says “Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity.” And the Psalms esp. 51 “a humble contrite heart you will not spurn O Lord"

another consideration in the old testament the Father is shaping a people to become Israel and getting them ready for the coming of the Messiah (even though in the end they don’t all accept Him) and so sometimes he is harsher here than in the New. but it is about getting them back on the right track rather than on a whim
 
Okay, I am going to give an analogy.

God is frequently described as a Bridegroom, betrothed to Israel. The prophets made it clear that Israel was an unfaithful spouse, profaning God with her many adulteries. Hence the corrective action taken throughout the Jews’ tumultuous history. However, he did not get rid of his bride, and he sought to woo her back, and He does this in Jesus. Jesus came not to condemn, but to save. This is God going back to his unfaithful spouse, and attempting once more to reestablish what was lost. Keep in mind that if he woos his spouse once more (Israel) and is rejected, well, one can read the book of Revelation and the destruction of Jerusalem to see that He is nothing if not consistent.

Can you imagine the anger you would feel if your wife cheated on you? Repeatedly? Over and over again? Then blamed you? God chose to describe things in these terms. And yet even still, his punishment for them was measured, and always in the prophets is the tinge of hope for reconciliation. I doubt that I would be so forgiving, and if anything it makes me view the “God of the OT” (I hate that term) with newfound love.

Hope this helps.
 
When Israel is faithful and loving to Him, God is a loving God.

When Israel is unfaithful, God is angry. Sadly, Israel was very unfaithful.
 
I recommend you invest some time in studying the Jewish perspective of the OT.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
While I understand the observation, the fact is it’s only in the NT were hellfire is mentioned and Jesus and the Epistles frequently talk about unbeliever and sinnners being damned. In the OT, the focus was more on earthly punishments and rewards, in the NT, it’s more focused on eternal punishments and rewards.
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^That, and I’d recommend reading 2 Maccabees 6:13-16 for an explanation of the methods used by “the God of the OT”.
 
God acts the way God does, but I do not see that He acts very differently (at least motivation-wise) between the OT and the NT.

In the OT, there seems to be a lot of focus on God ordering the Israelites to kill all the enemies not even to leave a cow or crumb behind. How is this loving? Well, if you read in Joshua about Rahab who hides the Israelite spies in her house and asks for mercy (which she does get, so all hail the last minute conversions!) and is told that the people know all about the work of God because of the Exodus that happened 40 years before, but they just don’t care. Well, sorry Jericho, you lose and its is your own fault. Also. the Israelites themselves would be in this cycle of following the law, losing the law, screwing up, asking God to help, God helping and then, rinse and repeat. Eventually they ask that God give them a king like all the other people. Samuel tells them that they might want to rethink things and outlines all the **** an earthly king will do. They don’t care, so God gives them what they want. That is a lot of the OT; the Israelites getting what they want and then complaining about it.

In the NT, Jesus is not all peace, love and harmony. He very clearly states that He is to divide. I could go into detail,but I gotta scoot.

Anyway, OT or NT, God is all about obedience and mercy. I would use the word love, but I think that people have very different ideas about what love truly is. But God is Love from the beginning to the end.
 
LemonAndLime said:
There is a great deal in the OT which is offensive to me - for example, a man lives with his son and daughter. Loads of men are banging on his door because they want to rape his son, but that man steps out and says something like “Do not rape my son because it is a grevious sin to commit sodomy! Have my daughter instead!” - who later died? I mean, how loving is that to be in the OT?
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Part of your problem seems to be that you equate something occurring in the Old Testament with God approving of that thing. In your example above, you won’t find anything about God telling Lot to offer his daughters to the mob at Sodom, nor of Him looking with favor upon it. Genesis only tells us that Lot acted in that way. No more, no less. What makes you think that God approved?

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
 
LemonAndLime said:
I asked this question in RCIA and got a politician’s answer. I can’t remember what he said, but to be honest once I realised he wasn’t answering my question I switched off. The session was meant to be on Sin & Salvation, and responded by talking about how humanity has always sinned throughout creation, therefore its important to be aware of Sin… huh? He also said that its important to remember that the OT is a historical document mainly… huh? I thought this was meant to be an answer to the question I… nevermind.

I have a reputation for asking awkward questions at RCIA like this, but I have studied Christian Philosophy and Theology and been raised going to Sunday School, so my questions are probably on a higher level than the ones they’re used to. Most of the other catchumen either don’t ask questions or ask only for clarification.

Anyway, I’m an intelligent person and a very scripture-wise Christian (non-demonical) friend said to me that its often said that the God in the OT is a different one to the NT. He does only believe in one God, but it was meant as an observation.

I can see how people can think that. In the OT, God is angry and vengeful. He orders wars, kills many in the Great Flood and seems to deal out a lot of punishment. There is a great deal in the OT which is offensive to me - for example, a man lives with his son and daughter. Loads of men are banging on his door because they want to rape his son, but that man steps out and says something like “Do not rape my son because it is a grevious sin to commit sodomy! Have my daughter instead!” - who later died? I mean, how loving is that to be in the OT? How is God loving and forgiving if the Great Flood happened?

Then we move onto the NT. Everything is about peace, love thy neighbour, God’s love, forgiveness… I’m unsurprised when people ask if that is the same God.

Yes the above is a very simple overview of the OT and NT, but I’m not very knowledgeable about scripture - and I’m not the first person to say that God appears totally different to a newcomer to the faith in each book.
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yes,cept the old testament has much fairy tales-ish about it…much of it is not what we call documented or even makes sense…thats why we are Roman Catholics and follow Jesus in the new testament. In our testament God is indeed gentle and kind and true.a father for us all!!! He also was not obsessed with folks being left-handed,keeping women down and in their place ! and also had a sense of humor!!! Catholic christianity is a religion of common sense and humility.thats why we are universal and not stuck in the mud ,so to speak as were the followers of some of the writers in the old testament.Jesus,time and time again would state…'it was said to you that…well I say instead…etc etc.as in 'I care more what comes out of a man’s mouth then what goes into it!! this relates to the insane and not healthy dietery laws in the old testament…etc etc…the yarn about adam and eve and that apple is a case in point also…and we are told with a straight face thats why men have an adams apple…that bump,in our throats…go figure…join us at Mass and smile as God is a perfect dad who understands all that we,His children need…kindness,a plan of action to save our immortal souls and a path to follow…amen and amen…Pas
 
John_Pascendi said:
yes,cept the old testament has much fairy tales-ish about it…much of it is not what we call documented or even makes sense…thats why we are Roman Catholics and follow Jesus in the new testament. In our testament God is indeed gentle and kind and true.a father for us all!!! He also was not obsessed with folks being left-handed,keeping women down and in their place ! and also had a sense of humor!!! Catholic christianity is a religion of common sense and humility.thats why we are universal and not stuck in the mud ,so to speak as were the followers of some of the writers in the old testament.Jesus,time and time again would state…'it was said to you that…well I say instead…etc etc.as in 'I care more what comes out of a man’s mouth then what goes into it!! this relates to the insane and not healthy dietery laws in the old testament…etc etc…the yarn about adam and eve and that apple is a case in point also…and we are told with a straight face thats why men have an adams apple…that bump,in our throats…go figure…join us at Mass and smile as God is a perfect dad who understands all that we,His children need…kindness,a plan of action to save our immortal souls and a path to follow…amen and amen…Pas
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Wow…just…wow…
 
He was loving in the OT to and He was angry in the NT to. For example He forgave and was merciful to the Israelite’s time after time after time because He loved them, in the NT He in the form of Jesus became angry several times.

It is the same God.

If He seems to act more leniently today it is because of the effect of Christ’s sacrifice and the Sacraments that have became available to us because of it.

Even when God is angry and chastises He does so because He loves. No one gets angry unless he first loves.
 
The Lord once told Saint Faustina: “In the Old Covenant I sent prophets wielding thunderbolts to My people. Today I am sending you with My mercy to the people of the whole world. I do not want to punish aching mankind, but I desire to heal it, pressing it to My Merciful Heart.”

Well, God helped the Israelites so much. Don’t forget what the pagans were like in those days. They would heat up an idol and place a baby on it to kill it for a sacrifice. When Israelites became influenced by the pagans, they would have orgies, seed over idols and sacrifice their children.

I recall at one point, the Israelites rejected God, so he gave them what they wanted and left them alone. Non-Israelites took control and they slit open the wombs of pregnant women. It described a lot of blood. I’m sorry I can’t remember where in the Bible this happened. After the Israelites repented and called for God to help them again, He would return.

Also, God said that the New Covenant would be a more pleasing relationship with Him. Remember in the Old Testament, if a mortal sin was committed, they would die instantly. Well, if one is committed in the New Testament and is unrepented, we have instant damnation into hell.
 
John_Pascendi said:
yes,cept the old testament has much fairy tales-ish about it…much of it is not what we call documented or even makes sense…thats why we are Roman Catholics and follow Jesus in the new testament. In our testament God is indeed gentle and kind and true.a father for us all!!! He also was not obsessed with folks being left-handed,keeping women down and in their place ! and also had a sense of humor!!! Catholic christianity is a religion of common sense and humility.thats why we are universal and not stuck in the mud ,so to speak as were the followers of some of the writers in the old testament.Jesus,time and time again would state…'it was said to you that…well I say instead…etc etc.as in 'I care more what comes out of a man’s mouth then what goes into it!! this relates to the insane and not healthy dietery laws in the old testament…etc etc…the yarn about adam and eve and that apple is a case in point also…and we are told with a straight face thats why men have an adams apple…that bump,in our throats…go figure…join us at Mass and smile as God is a perfect dad who understands all that we,His children need…kindness,a plan of action to save our immortal souls and a path to follow…amen and amen…Pas
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There are a lot of questionable statements made here but keeping with the central topic of this thread, John may I suggest that you read what the Catholic Church teaches about Sacred Scripture. That the Old and the New testament TOGETHER are equally important as the Catechism says:
134 All sacred Scripture[that’s all the OT and all the NT] is but one book, and this one book is Christ, “because all divine Scripture speaks of Christ, and all divine Scripture is fulfilled in Christ”
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to deny the Old Testament is to Deny Christ. as the Church Fathers said What is foreshadowed in the Old Testament is fulfilled in the New Testament.
 
I wasn’t aware that Jesus in the NT is all “love and kisses” like He’s been portrayed.

If I recall correctly, Jesus talks about the pains of hell more than he talks about the glory of heaven in the Gospels.

We just don’t hear it from the pulpit because that’s what people don’t want to hear. Without the fear of retribution, people lose their fear of God… then people lose their revulsion to sin.

We need to be reminded that the OT God is the same God as the NT God.
 
Partially a difference in historical times. The old testament = under law. The new testament = under grace.
The Bible in a Verse

But now once at the conclusion of the ages Jesus has
appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9: 26b
 
freerf said:
I recommend you invest some time in studying the Jewish perspective of the OT.
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  1. I quite agree. I’ve just finished a leisurely reading of the five volumes of Torah commentary from the Jewish Publication Society, about 2000 pages. It’s worth it to work through the seemingly boring stuff.
In Genesis 1, for example, the Hebrew word for God is elohim. Now, this is sort of a generic name for all kinds of spirits, perhaps even alleged pagan ones. And, the word is in the plural form, also, which draws a certain amount of commentary and interest.

But, one aspect of the term elohim is it refers to God as a Judge. You will note that in the account of the six days of creation, God looks at it and declares that “it is [very] good.”

You see? God is already judging things. So, that may be an introduction to the revelation of God. You learn something there, just in the term that refers to God.
  1. To ask the question “why” about God isn’t quite the thing to do, God is not so much “angry” as He is just. We must look at the total picture of God in the Bible, OT and NT.
  2. Describing God as “angry” is understandable, as the OT itself makes God out to be like a person (that is, it “anthropomorphizes” God). But, we shouldn’t assume that God’s anger is like human anger – the experts say not to look at it as an emotion, for example.
  3. to answer the question in the straightforward way in which it was asked in the OP, try this: God uses death to get our attention and to teach us lessons. The OT, for example, tells us over and over to fear God, no doubt about it. And, I hasten to add that it is not so much God Himself that inflicts death as much as our sin is responsible for death.
**When we see what sin does to us, it may be teaching us something about what sin does to God. **
 
One more thing – I forgot to mention – the premise of this thread is inaccurate.

God’s love is revealed in Deuteronomy by Moses. I think it’s stated somewhere around chap 5 give or take a chapter or so. I know it’s there. Better if you read it for yourself.
 
You might consider talking to your pastor for some more guidance than the RCIA volunteers can provide. If you’re consistently frustrated with their answers, you might just need to talk to someone more knowledgeable.
 
There are a lot of different kinds of books in the Old Testament. If you focus on just one kind of book, you won’t understand anything about God. If you don’t read it all, or you just skim around and focus on things God does that you don’t like or don’t understand, you really really won’t get it. You seem to be focusing on the more violent bits of Israel’s history, and not actually trying to get to know God through the full Old Testament.

Have you read the Song of Songs? How the heck can you take that eager panting young lover portrayal of God as being cold and unloving?

Have you read the Book of Ruth or Esther or Tobit?

Have you even read all the Psalms? That’s where your average Jew or Christian, across time, would have started reading. Traditionally, it was the ABC book for reading and the songbook of every day of your life.

Have you read Wisdom or Proverbs?

Have you read Isaiah or Daniel?

If you won’t read the shorter books, what are you doing reading the longer books? Poke around. You’ll soon see that God is the same God, yesterday, today and forever. Then you can go back and read the histories with more understanding of the full story of salvation.
 
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