Why is God proveable only through thought processes?

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God’s plan to offer us eternal salvation cannot include that he reveals himself to us physically.

He gave us a free will to choose him or not( good or evil).

If he revealed himself, noone would sin and then they would not be worthy of eternal salvation.
 
Struggling1 said:
Can someone walk me through why only in this area we had to develop new logical thought experiments not based in any physical evidence whatsoever to explain God?
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God isn’t physical. Therefore, you cannot measure Him. QED.

You can measure effects (e.g., the universe), of course, but there would always be the debate over whether the effects prove God’s existence or not. (If someone is unwilling to belief in God, he’s rather unlikely to accept the argument that the existence of the universe is proof that God exists. 😉 )
 
That’s kind of where I’m at. I have a hard time accepting that everything is proof of God when no one can point to like a specific thing and say here’s God for sure! It has no other explanation.
 
Was that not a similar risk? You could not be sure of her response without taking a leap of faith.
 
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OK, so… you wrote that you struggle with “God isn’t a physical being.” What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that you struggle with the idea that there can be non-physical beings? Or, do you mean that you struggle with the implications of being purely spiritual (e.g., that there’s no physical evidence of non-physical beings)?

(BTW – to answer your objection about gravity: gravity is an empirically-measurable force within the universe. So, although it isn’t made up of matter (per se), it is the result of physical matter. So, that’s a completely different case than a non-physical spiritual being. 😉 )
 
I think I do struggle with the existence of non physical beings. Being in a physical world and with everything in existence being physical at some level even love involves chemical reactions, it makes it really hard to conceptualize how a non physical being exists. Especially because logic and philosophy there’s nothing else that seems to explain him.
 
Very true but I could see her and see the effects of her love. I.e the physical or the time she spends with me. Nothing about God is detectable by any of my senses or even feelings! All I have is the idea of God to believe in.
 
Struggling1 said:
But he can’t even give me a small sign?
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You mean like ‘the universe’?

Or maybe, the fact that His son lived among us as a human?

Wouldn’t those count? 😉
Struggling1 said:
it makes it really hard to conceptualize how a non physical being exists.
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Why?

I mean, what is it about “non-physical” that implies “non-existent”? I mean, “invisible”, sure. “Not empirically measurable”, absolutely. But, why should your ability to perceive (with your five senses) be the measuring stick for a being’s existence?

After all, ages ago, no one had ever seen a black hole… but that doesn’t imply that they didn’t exist, does it? And that’s something that is physical!
Especially because logic and philosophy there’s nothing else that seems to explain him.
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Well, that kinda follows from the definition of what “non-physical” means… right? 🤔
 
Struggling1 said:
But he can’t even give me a small sign?
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Perhaps he already has. Examine your life for signs of God.

And don’t be like the guy in this joke:
mVitus said:
A guy is working at the office when it starts raining real hard. Soon the streets start filling and water covers the ground floor so he moves up to the second floor. A rescue boat comes along.

“Do you want to get in the boat, sir?” asks the rescue worker.

“No, thanks,” replies the man, “God will save me.”

The rain keeps coming down and the man moves up to the third floor. Another rescue boat comes by.

“Do you want to get in the boat, sir?” the worker asks.

“No thanks, God will save me.” he replies again.

Rain keeps coming down so the man moves to the roof. A helicopter comes along. “Do you want to come with us, sir?” the pilot asks.

“No thanks,” replies the man, “God will save me.”

The rain keeps coming down and the man drowns.

Up in Heaven the man is talking with God, “Hey, this is a really great place and all, God, but I do have one question. Why didn’t you save me from that flood?”

“What are you talking about?” asks God, “I sent two boats and a helicopter.”
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🤣
 
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I’m so filled with despair I don’t even know. I would settle for a shooting star which I’ve stated longingly for into the night sky for a while now. I guess something stupid would be someone telling me something God inspired they couldn’t have known like something I’m dealing with or an answer to an unasked question. Truth be told I’m just dumb.
 
Thank you for something humor filled with being in a state of despair humor helps. I likely am too far gone to be unlike that guy.
 
It honestly shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be an issue I should be able to accept it I shouldn’t expect or need to put my hand in Christ’s side but I feel this deep hunger that continues unless i figure the roots of something and proof of something. I should be able to accept the Bible as the sole source of belief and I should be able to accept that Jesus died for me and the Eucharist is actually him and yet I can’t. It’s me being stubborn and wanting proof of God because his non physical aspect makes it so I can’t guarantee what I believe is real at least to me.
 
Struggling1 said:
I’m so filled with despair I don’t even know.
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I’ll pray for you at Mass tonight, @Struggling1! Maybe not that God sends you a physical sign, but that you find the presence of His ‘sign’ already in your heart!
 
Thank you so much for that and answering and putting up with me.
 
But how do we know reason is right except for the fact that we have reason? For an instance it’s not like we find hidden tribes of people that are Christian and haven’t had contact with the outside world. This only seems to be the conclusion you arrive at if you begin to look for the conclusion itself? Or maybe that’s a fallacy of logic?
 
What?
I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

But, almost all the world has believed in God as far back as human history does. There’s one tribe that doesn’t have any idea of authority and therefore can’t conceive of a supreme Spirit but they still believe in spirits.

“Faith comes through hearing” so I wouldn’t expect them to know Christian religion without being told. It is our duty to do such things.

Let me ask you: are you scared of being wrong, or are you actually scared of being right?
 
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