Why is God seemingly hidden?

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johnnyjones

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I realize some may say, “he is not hidden, you see him all around you.” Thats not the real question. Why did God choose to make his presence only through people and nature, at least for the last 2000 years? Also, prior to Jesus God only apperared to select people . Some Isrealite sat in a pit of mud waiting for deliverence and may have never seen comfort from God (in this life).

This is a very pesimistic attitude I suppose but maybe it comes from a desire to want to see God (not in all his glory) or be with him. There is so much confusion with denominations, there are debates over scripture and tradition. One says, I’m right, the other says he is. The Gospels and the bible can be up for much interpretation. Why did God not make it as clear as day (although some will say he did). But is it really?

You can’t see God, so your praying to a non tangable (at least to you) supposed entity, based on faith. Faith is “things hoped for” according to scripture. I guess hoping can wear on you. Seeing is more evidential to me. I guess I’m like St. Thomas before Christ was revealed physically to him.
 
The Big Lie is that we are separate from God in the first place. We are in our minds, and that’s all it takes for us not to recognize Him.

Not only can you see Him all around you, you can see Him in yourself and others. The problem is, people seem to think that God is something external, when clearly He is synonumous with creation and even transcends that.

So the trick is to find the gaze within. There’s a lot to that so I’ll leave this post here for now and see if I get triggered to write more.

I am with you, I hear and feel your pain, and there IS an antidote. It does mean, however, that you must turn a good deal of your religious socialization (which is largely in opposition to Christian values in several ways) upside down. Jesus said you have to lose your very self in order to gain life. That doesn’t mean you have to die. That means you have to rewire your thinking to undo effects of years of threats and bribes aka behavior modification which has been a non-working substitute for actual spirituality. We don’t see God for winning a cheap behavior contest, we see Him by experiencing a “phase shift” in our thinking which exposes all you would ever want to see.

Fast Forward: God has seen fit to draw me into His kingdom, and right now I just can hardly believe I’m really experiencing this. I honestly do find God in everyone and everything, although I forget it from time to time and usually it’s only a few seconds until it kicks back in.

Alan
 
When I was in fundamentalism I used to hear some people say, “seek his face”. I never could comprehend that. I mean I know they didn’t mean his actual face (or did they?) but the whole “aura” thing just reveal itself to me. I “feel” God in the physicality of the church. I mean the actual structure, the building.
 
We can’t see God because God isn’t a thing. He is not just another being among many, or just another object among all the other objects we can point to or comprehend. You can’t say “here’s me, and here’s my desk, and my cat…and over there, that’s God.” It’s impossible and contrary to the nature of God.

God is the catalyst through which all being is. All things exist in Him, and he is in all things, yet he is not any one thing. If you were able to SEE God and say “oh, there he is, right there” that would kind of mean he isn’t somewhere else. Except for the incarnation of Christ, but that is a mystery.

That’s why its more accurate to say you CAN see God. He’s all around us. We exist in him, and are sustained in Him. Asking the question of why we can’t see God is kind of like being a single red blood cell and asking why you can’t see the human body. The red blood cell is IN the human body, and everywhere it looks is the human body. It exists through of the human body and takes part in the human body. I mean, that’s not a perfect analogy but its kind of like that.
 
Garyjohn2 said:
We can’t see God because God isn’t a thing. He is not just another being among many, or just another object among all the other objects we can point to or comprehend. You can’t say “here’s me, and here’s my desk, and my cat…and over there, that’s God.” It’s impossible and contrary to the nature of God.

God is the catalyst through which all being is. All things exist in Him, and he is in all things, yet he is not any one thing. If you were able to SEE God and say “oh, there he is, right there” that would kind of mean he isn’t somewhere else. Except for the incarnation of Christ, but that is a mystery.

That’s why its more accurate to say you CAN see God. He’s all around us. We exist in him, and are sustained in Him. Asking the question of why we can’t see God is kind of like being a single red blood cell and asking why you can’t see the human body. The red blood cell is IN the human body, and everywhere it looks is the human body. It exists through of the human body and takes part in the human body. I mean, that’s not a perfect analogy but its kind of like that.
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I ask the question because we live in a physical world. Everything is based on sight, sound, touch, smell. But, with God ,for the most part ,none of our senses apply, it is all of the spirit… I understand your analogy somewhat. "I am that I am " is one of the most powerful verses from scripture to me. Jeremiah 23:24 says, “Lord you fill heaven and Earth”, another mind blower. It is so hard to comprehend spirit, which God says that he is.

In my deep mind I wonder, does God ponder where he came from? Of course he wouldn’t , otherwise he is not God but it is all so incomprehensible to the human mind. Thankfully we have Jesus as the God-man forever.
 
johnnyjones said:
I ask the question because we live in a physical world. Everything is based on sight, sound, touch, smell. But, with God ,for the most part ,none of our senses apply, it is all of the spirit… I understand your analogy somewhat. "I am that I am " is one of the most powerful verses from scripture to me. Jeremiah 23:24 says, “Lord you fill heaven and Earth”, another mind blower. It is so hard to comprehend spirit, which God says that he is.

In my deep mind I wonder, does God ponder where he came from? Of course he wouldn’t , otherwise he is not God but it is all so incomprehensible to the human mind. Thankfully we have Jesus as the God-man forever.
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I know what you mean, it’s simply amazing. You know, Fr. Barron describes God and His nature very eloquently in the “Catholicism” series of videos. I highly recommend if you haven’t seen it!
 
It isn’t time to see Him yet. Now is the time of faith to see him. In a few years, all of us will see him in one way or another and the time of faith will end.

“more blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.” Jesus

Faith is a prayer in God’s eye. Sight is not.
Faith is trust. Sight is not.
Now is the test. Later is the reward.

Just a thought.
 
fred_conty said:
It isn’t time to see Him yet. Now is the time of faith to see him. In a few years, all of us will see him in one way or another and the time of faith will end.

“more blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.” Jesus

Faith is a prayer in God’s eye. Sight is not.
Faith is trust. Sight is not.
Now is the test. Later is the reward.

Just a thought.
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As in the song … “Lord haste the day when faith becomes sight.”

Woo hoo!

Alan
 
johnnyjones said:
I realize some may say, “he is not hidden, you see him all around you.” Thats not the real question. Why did God choose to make his presence only through people and nature, at least for the last 2000 years? Also, prior to Jesus God only apperared to select people . Some Isrealite sat in a pit of mud waiting for deliverence and may have never seen comfort from God (in this life).

This is a very pesimistic attitude I suppose but maybe it comes from a desire to want to see God (not in all his glory) or be with him. There is so much confusion with denominations, there are debates over scripture and tradition. One says, I’m right, the other says he is. The Gospels and the bible can be up for much interpretation. Why did God not make it as clear as day (although some will say he did). But is it really?

You can’t see God, so your praying to a non tangable (at least to you) supposed entity, based on faith. Faith is “things hoped for” according to scripture. I guess hoping can wear on you. Seeing is more evidential to me. I guess I’m like St. Thomas before Christ was revealed physically to him.
Click to expand...
Apart from the times in which God manifested Himself before the Incarnation of the Word, we also have the 33 years that Jesus (true God) walked the earth. Jesus has also appeared many times to people of different eras since His ascension into heaven.

Saints and mystics spend entire lifes of prayer and of the spirit just to have an experience of God’s presence and spiritual union with Him.

We are too connected to the world of technology and the world itself to reach this level of mystical spirituality. And even if that is not the goal of a life of prayer and a life of the spirit…it is, to do His will- to be in willing surrender to His will.

In the quiet and in the stillness of prayer and contemplation, one can experience God’s presence. However, as soon as you reach out to grasp and apprehend His presence - you are no longer in the still and the quiet that got you there in the first place. Not by our efforts does He make Himself manifest to us…only by His will.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
We are too connected to the world of technology and the world itself to reach this level of mystical spirituality. And even if that is not the goal of a life of prayer and a life of the spirit…it is, to do His will- to be in willing surrender to His will.
Click to expand...
I have a different take on it. Technology has helped me learn about what is and what is not contemplation and spirituality, and without these connections instead of my 11 year spiritual journey there’s a good chance I’d have gone to my grave without ever experiencing it.

It isn’t the connectivity itself that I see is the problem, but the modern notion that with enough brains we can figure anything out. So the technology does make us proud and that way I see it doing what you’re saying, but not specifically the connectivity. That said, I do not deny connectivity can become a trap, but I don’t see that as an indictment of it.
In the quiet and in the stillness of prayer and contemplation, one can experience God’s presence. However, as soon as you reach out to grasp and apprehend His presence - you are no longer in the still and the quiet that got you there in the first place. Not by our efforts does He make Himself manifest to us…only by His will.
Click to expand...
👍👍
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I have a different take on it. Technology has helped me learn about what is and what is not contemplation and spirituality, and without these connections instead of my 11 year spiritual journey there’s a good chance I’d have gone to my grave without ever experiencing it.

It isn’t the connectivity itself that I see is the problem, but the modern notion that with enough brains we can figure anything out. So the technology does make us proud and that way I see it doing what you’re saying, but not specifically the connectivity. That said, I do not deny connectivity can become a trap, but I don’t see that as an indictment of it.

👍👍
Click to expand...
I work at a hospital as an ombudsman.

The other day a female patient called my office in tears, emotionally upset. She had just recently purchased a smart phone and- in her own words, " my entire life is in that phone".

The phone, she insisted, had been stolen. She continued to say that she did not know how she would be able to organize her daily living without it.

I felt a deep sadness and empathy for this woman and her [perceived connectivity plight].

The phone was eventually recovered and “re-united” with it’s owner.

Now,

I use my droid phone (among other things) as my wake up alarm for work. A couple of mornings ago, the chirping of the birds outside my window and the roar of my front neighbor’s muscle car woke me up. I was surprised that my phone had not gone off as usual.

I knew that I had charged it the night before and there was no apparent reason for it to have gone “dead”.

Where will men and women find God and His whispering when “connectivity” goes dead?

People use to read, pray, converse, meditate and had a more active life of prayer and life of the spirit-nurtured by the Sacraments. Living the Liturgical year and Church life was more connected to our daily living.

That’s where we will find Him when “connectivity” fails us…and it will fail us.

Aquiesce anima mea, in Deus salus mea.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
The other day a female patient called my office in tears, emotionally upset. She had just recently purchased a smart phone and- in her own words, " my entire life is in that phone".
Click to expand...
The sad part is, she was undoubtedly being sincere. :eek:

Alan
 
johnnyjones said:
I realize some may say, “he is not hidden, you see him all around you.” Thats not the real question. Why did God choose to make his presence only through people and nature, at least for the last 2000 years? Also, prior to Jesus God only apperared to select people . Some Isrealite sat in a pit of mud waiting for deliverence and may have never seen comfort from God (in this life).

This is a very pesimistic attitude I suppose but maybe it comes from a desire to want to see God (not in all his glory) or be with him. There is so much confusion with denominations, there are debates over scripture and tradition. One says, I’m right, the other says he is. The Gospels and the bible can be up for much interpretation. Why did God not make it as clear as day (although some will say he did). But is it really?

You can’t see God, so your praying to a non tangable (at least to you) supposed entity, based on faith. Faith is “things hoped for” according to scripture. I guess hoping can wear on you. Seeing is more evidential to me. I guess I’m like St. Thomas before Christ was revealed physically to him.
Click to expand...
It’s been said that ‘Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one’s looking’. If God were here in plain sight, would man really be free to prove himself, to grow, to co-create, so to speak (Catechism, para 306, 307, 308), to become a being of true integrity-or not-based on *his *decisions, based on his will?

Even as professed believers God is still not omni-present, for all practical purposes, so that we’re not forced, within the privacy and sovereignty of our own minds, to recognize His very existence, to behave as if He exists, let alone to obey His commands. And this allows the struggle with sin, the battle with concupiscence and the testing it occasions in us, to occur.

Compare also the Parable of the Talents, Matt 25:14-28 and the Parable of the Tenants, Matt 21:33-41, for biblical examples of a master who judges his servants based on what they did while he was gone. And the Catechism also teaches us that, with the Original Sin man, preferred himself to God, desiring to be like Him, but apart from Him (para 398). So the truth is that God doesn’t so much hide from us as we hide from Him, going our own ways, exploring our own ‘realities’, creating our own morality/righteousness, often with sinful results.

God draws us, He gives us grace, but He won’t violate our wills to turn us back to Him, to force us to choose life over death, good over evil, God over no God.
 
+JMJ+

I love how John Eldridge answered this question. It’s because [BIBLEDRB]Genesis 1:27[/BIBLEDRB]

Men want to pursue, women want to be pursued, because that’s what God is. God pursues us like “the hound of Heaven”, but also keeps Himself hidden so that He can be pursued.
 
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