Why is God seemingly inactive?

[aidanbradypop]

Hi All

We are told that God is all-loving and all-powerful.

Yet, when sickening crimes take place, God seemingly allows them to happen and does nothing.

For example, the singer from the band Lost Prophets, was arrested last year for multiple child sex charges, including conspiracy to rape a one year old. He has now been imprisoned for a large number of crimes against children.

You and me are law abiding people.

If we were witnesses to this, would try to stop such crimes.

Maybe by phoning the police, or perhaps even a violent act, like punching them in the face, to stop the crime from taking place.

If we had god-like powers, we could give the pedophile a heart attack, or touch them and cure them of their mental illness and insanity, or maybe we could dispatch an angel to speak to them.

… Yet, God, a loving person, with infinite powers does nothing and lets sickening crimes take place. Sits back, and does nothing.

How can you explain this?

I believe often we never look for God in things.

“When bad things happen to bad people, that is God”
“When bad things happen to good people, where is God”
“When good things happen to bad people, that is unfair God”
“When good things happen to good people, that is a blessing from God”

See how our minds kind of work? Often when good things happen to us, we never see God at work. Usually it takes something “bad” to happen for us to search God and we often do not like the answers we get. No one ever stated that life was fair. Yes there are evil people in the world that do evil things. We have the freewill to go against God every second of the day.

I heard a saying, but cannot remember the person that said it but it goes like this…“hardship is not fair, yet it shows us just how much we need God.”

 

[ccmcmg]

Hi All

We are told that God is all-loving and all-powerful.

But he is not ONLY all loving and all powerful. He is also right and just.

Yet, when sickening crimes take place, God seemingly allows them to happen and does nothing.

For example, the singer from the band Lost Prophets, was arrested last year for multiple child sex charges, including conspiracy to rape a one year old. He has now been imprisoned for a large number of crimes against children.

How many children could he have abused, but didn’t? This man had his back turned on God, away from Him, apparently. Perhaps God did protect more children from abuse. What a horrible crime. I would imagine it would take a great amount of Faith to believe in God when that happens. But you know what? God has that Faith ready and waiting, and will heal your soul, or help you bear your cross, when it’s time.

You and me are law abiding people.

If we were witnesses to this, would try to stop such crimes.

Maybe by phoning the police, or perhaps even a violent act, like punching them in the face, to stop the crime from taking place.

If we had god-like powers, we could give the pedophile a heart attack, or touch them and cure them of their mental illness and insanity, or maybe we could dispatch an angel to speak to them.

… Yet, God, a loving person, with infinite powers does nothing and lets sickening crimes take place. Sits back, and does nothing.

How can you explain this?

My God doesn’t do nothing. How He is working, I don’t know, but I know he’s there. He’s holding the little lamb being abused by man’s free will. He’s trying to stop the man from doing more harm.

I can see and understand why people will blame God, or decry a lack of God, in incidences such as this one. What CAN we do? Are we, as neighbors, doing all we can? Have we seen the young street urchins and turned away, in which they are taken advantage of by evil-doers? Are we doing everything we can? Have we volunteered our time, energy, money to taking care of these children, or have we turned our backs and said, “Oh I’m sure they are fine.”? Maybe God put us on this earth so that He didn’t have to do everything. He gave us GOOD in us so that we could have the power to stop evil practices.

I know I don’t do enough, or know enough. I am still finding God’s plan for me, but I do pray that when I see injustice in any form, but especially against the weaker, I stand up for them, in more ways than one.

 

[Della]

Hi Della

Striking us with lightening sounds very old testament I would have thought an all-knowing deity would be apportion help and correction as required as a loving Father would with their children.

So, he should do that in some cases, which we might consider not so bad, but not in those cases in which people acted very bad?

Isn’t letting us make our own decisions acting as a loving father? We’re supposed to be grown ups not 2 year olds. Grown ups have to make decisions, good or bad. He’s given us the Church, the sacraments and his laws to guide us. It’s up to us to do what is right by availing ourselves of these gifts. If we ignore them we do so to our own ruin and that of others. It’s why we need the Eucharist and confession–to avail ourselves often of both.

AnimalSpirits:

I suppose an additional question would be, why is God so inactive relative to his track record in the Old Testament? When a preacher claims that god is sending natural disasters as punishment for XYZ, the majority of Christians get all up in arms claiming that this is not what their religion is all about. Yet OT God had no problem smashing cities, drowning people, killing the first born, ect. Even after Jesus, I beleive Peter had a few people smited.

So if God is so willing to leave us mortals be, why was this not so in the past? If you can answer without using words like “mysterious”, “unknowable” and so forth, you get a gold star.

I’ll claim that gold star. The answer is simple. In OT times, until God gave Moses the 10 Commandments, natural law was all people had go by to know right from wrong. And being in a fallen state, deprived of God’s grace, they had to obey or pay the consequences, which were often immediate and severe. Even so, God showed his mercy in many ways. For instance, he let Egypt oppress Israel for 400 years before he passed judgment on that nation. Israel had been promised certain lands, which they took back from the peoples who had moved in and were worshiping idols, to which they sacrificed their own children. It wasn’t pretty, but it was necessary to cleanse the lands of such abominations. I can only imagine the punishment to come for those who are doing the same thing today under the guise of “women’s rights.”

The NT saw the coming of Christ, who redeemed all mankind, thus allowing God’s grace to be poured out on all men. Instead of trying to correct man through force, God now would show ever greater mercy and bring people to the truth through love. This is why the NT seems so much more kindly than the old, but God’s laws have not changed. He is simply withholding final judgment until Jesus comes again. We should be taking advantage of God’s mercy by doing what he has commanded us to do while we still can.

 

[SinnersAnonymus]

I would say that the punishment idea of God tends to reflect the person sending the message more then the nature of God. However, I would argue that a good idea of a punishment from God would be injecting yourself with embryonic stem cells and viewing the results.

God Bless

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Dave B_

Yet, when sickening crimes take place, God seemingly allows them to happen and does nothing.

The criminal might spend a hundred years on this Earth, but at some point he will have to stand before God in judgement.

God can put all things right, even if I kill someone, God can restore that person to a greater good life after death.

How can you compare a hundred years of strife on Earth, to eternity with God; when he will put all things right.

If there is no God all the suffering on Earth ends with injustice.

 

[Aquinas21]

Here is a possibly relevant reference concerning the subject of this thread …

[bibledrb]1 Corinthians 15:19[/bibledrb]

 

[frobert]

I believe often we never look for God in things.

“When bad things happen to bad people, that is God”
“When bad things happen to good people, where is God”
“When good things happen to bad people, that is unfair God”
“When good things happen to good people, that is a blessing from God”

I think we should stop the blame game.(not saying you are playing it) We should except that good things happen, bad things happen, its life.

On the other hand, I am in a dilemma, my reason tells me that God does not interfere but I have seen the power of prayer on several occasions that I believe goes well beyond coincidence. The best I can come up with is that sometimes God interferes and sometimes he does not. To me its a paradox and will probably remain so.

 

[SinnersAnonymus]

I think we should stop the blame game.(not saying you are playing it) We should except that good things happen, bad things happen, its life.

On the other hand, I am in a dilemma, my reason tells me that God does not interfere but I have seen the power of prayer on several occasions that I believe goes well beyond coincidence. The best I can come up with is that sometimes God interferes and sometimes he does not. To me its a paradox and will probably remain so.

Judas Thaddeus said it best, God is usually so active we do not notice unless we really look. Also, one has to ask for God to be active in their life. However, the obvious supernatural events tend to be rarer. My Spiritual Director once described them as cookies from God. The risk is loving God because just because of the cookies or abusing the cookie for your will.

However, the real experiences of God that people talk about in the New Testament and that occurred to Saints still occur today. I have had the opportunity to met people with various Charisms (gifts from God) and it is truly amazing. However, many of these people live quiet humble lives and do not advertise their gifts. Also, I have found as I talk to more and more Christians that there are more encounters and miracles from God then people realize.

The problem as I see it, is that we are living in a society that has fabricated its own fantasy world apart from God and many Christians are scattered instead of forming a strong centralized community. We encounter more messages from the fantasy world (TV, media, internet) then from communicating and praying with other Christians.

In my experience, I began to understand how real God’s presence was when I started to distance myself from all the distractions and fantasies the world throws at us to distract us from God and prayer. As I started to pray more and finding (and talking openly with) a community of prayerful Christians I was amazed at how active and real God can be in our lives.

Anyways just my :twocents:

God Bless

 

[Dave_B]

…The problem as I see it, is that we are living in a society that has fabricated its own fantasy world apart from God and many Christians are scattered instead of forming a strong centralized community. We encounter more messages from the fantasy world (TV, media, internet) then from communicating and praying with other Christians…

Yes I can see that. But how can we trust our inner voice is really God communicating to us, and not our own imagination. Unless you can physically see someone, or physically hear someone, then isnt such activity purely withint the mind?

 

[Aloysium]

. . . So if God is so willing to leave us mortals be, why was this not so in the past? If you can answer without using words like “mysterious”, “unknowable” and so forth, you get a gold star.

You kind of beat me to the response that maybe He should do a Sodom-and-Gomorrah, great Flood on on us. That would fix the problem of eliminating sinners. It would not help bring us to Him and make us more loving persons.

Feelin’ kinda ornery today.

But you ask a good question as to why mysterious and unkowable God would seemingly leave us be to the squalor of our sinfulness. Actually He did not; we have scripture, which although it may appear to be mysterious and unkowable, points to the resolution of our spiritual alienation. The future being mysterious and unkowable will also hold the answer. Maybe His ways are not so mysterious and unkowable; maybe we will be left to the consequences of our actions. It is interesting how some people when they encounter something mysterious and unkowable simply deny its existence. Since pretty much all of life is mysterious and unkowable, given how ignorance is a fundemental component of the human condition, I have always found this approach mysterious and unkowable. I suppose it makes the person feel intelligent, knowing all there is to know, the rest being mysterious and unkowable nonsense. It would also be one way in which sin persists, there being no reason to change one’s ways.

 

[Aquinas21]

Yes I can see that. But how can we trust [that] our inner voice is really God communicating to us, and not our own imagination? Unless you can physically see someone, or physically hear someone, then isn’t such activity purely within the mind?

My comment here is … yes and no. If the question is just ‘inner voice’ versus imagination, there is ambiguity and uncertainty. But what does it means for anything to be ‘purely within the mind’? At a fundamental level (sometimes called pre-conceptual awareness), many thinkers have affirmed (in lengthy books) that there is a basic intuition of the Absolute. Some examples of thinkers along these lines would include Schleiermacher and Rosmini and Maréchal and Lonergan.

According to these people (and idealists generally), mind is not merely alone and isolated. There is at least a minimal connection between finite spirit (human beings) and Absolute Spirit (God). So, the apparent empirical inactivity of God (subject of this thread) is indeed a problem, but this problem is at least somewhat balanced by inward intuition or awareness of Divine Presence.

 

[Della]

Yes I can see that. But how can we trust our inner voice is really God communicating to us, and not our own imagination. Unless you can physically see someone, or physically hear someone, then isnt such activity purely withint the mind?

This is why we have to get alone and shut out the world, and not just for a couple of minutes, but turn off all the noise, read Scripture or other solid spiritual reading, put our hearts before God in silence and listen. We are so busy asking and praying and talking and watching that we don’t really listen.

Also, if anything you “receive” contradicts natural law or Church teaching, then it’s either coming from ourselves or other malign sources that wish to confuse us and get us to despair and/or lose our trust in God. God may bring a challenge to our hearts, but he never berates us or tells us things are hopeless nor discourages us from doing what is right and proper.

So, get alone with God and just open up your heart to him and let him speak to you. If you have any questions about what you “hear” ask your pastor or other reliable spiritual director. As the saying goes, “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”

 

[AnimalSpirits]

Also, if anything you “receive” contradicts natural law or Church teaching, then it’s either coming from ourselves or other malign sources that wish to confuse us and get us to despair and/or lose our trust in God. God may bring a challenge to our hearts, but he never berates us or tells us things are hopeless nor discourages us from doing what is right and proper.

This seems silly. A Mormon or Muslim attempting this would never embrace Catholicism, since if they “received” anything contrary to their faith, they’d write it off (sonde their own faith would be their baseline). Furthermore, you implicitly acknowledge that there’s no real way to distinguish between real revelations and false ones. If I meditated and “received” the phrase “Screw your neighbor, who needs him?” that would be written off. But if the self can be the source of the messages that contradict Catholicism, couldn’t it just as easily be the source of the non contrary ones?

 

[mikekle]

Hi Tony

We are told the disciples walked and talked with God and witnessed physical miracles. Throughout the Bible there are encounters with God.

They heard from God, saw God and God intervened in their affairs with healings and wonderous supernatural events.

Why would God intervene with them, and not with people today?

Anyone that reads the bible can see how much Jesus interacts with societies of that time period, and to be honest Ive wondered why in todays world, it seems he is nowhere to be found…??

What really surprised me is the Nazis and all they did was allowed to go on as long as it did, yet in biblical times, God literally destroyed enemies for Israel and his chosen people.

It makes me think of the ‘footprints’ poem, how God explained to the person that during the tough times, God was carrying the person, but how does this make sense when their particular times just got more and more tough, or I can imagine someone in a concentration camp thinking of that poem, but they go thru horrible torture day after day.

To take a look at the world today I can clearly understand how someone would think God is longer around LOL I dont believe that, but there must be a reason he takes no action whatsoever and lets the world continue down this path…I know many will say he is waiting for us to change, but CMON, that is never going to happen, things are only going to get worse, laws are in the pipelines in many countries that will be bad news for the church and any who follow God…all this and still no action, not even a small act??

I only question how long this can go on before everyone starts to wonder, and ask these questions.

 

[Della]

This seems silly. A Mormon or Muslim attempting this would never embrace Catholicism, since if they “received” anything contrary to their faith, they’d write it off (sonde their own faith would be their baseline). Furthermore, you implicitly acknowledge that there’s no real way to distinguish between real revelations and false ones. If I meditated and “received” the phrase “Screw your neighbor, who needs him?” that would be written off. But if the self can be the source of the messages that contradict Catholicism, couldn’t it just as easily be the source of the non contrary ones?

I didn’t state things that you apparently have read into my comments. And I did say that one needs to consult a reliable spiritual director if in doubt about what hears in prayer. And even non-Christians follow natural law. For instance, those fanatics who kill innocents in the name of their religion are not following natural law, besides which they are violating the principles of their own faith. Any normal, rational human being knows right from wrong, therefore, whatever they hear in prayer cannot contradict that, or it is definitely not of God. Besides, the Catholic Church does not claim to have the corner of the market on truth. Truth is truth no matter who hears it or speaks be they Christian or not.

 

[Aquinas21]

In addition to the links in post 31, here is a slightly modified quotation relating to the subject of this thread: “The order placed in creation [including history] by divine wisdom … is not so adequate … that the divine wisdom should be restricted to this present order of things. … The divine wisdom is not so restricted to any particular order [such] that no other course of events could happen. Wherefore we must simply say that God can do other things than those He has done.” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, First Part, Question 25, Article 5]

 

[Dave_B]

…To take a look at the world today I can clearly understand how someone would think God is longer around LOL I dont believe that, but there must be a reason he takes no action whatsoever and lets the world continue down this path…I know many will say he is waiting for us to change, but CMON, that is never going to happen, things are only going to get worse, laws are in the pipelines in many countries that will be bad news for the church and any who follow God…all this and still no action, not even a small act?? I only question how long this can go on before everyone starts to wonder, and ask these questions.

I agree. Thoughtful post.

 

[Aquinas21]

There is plenty of evidence that God has intervened throughout history with miracles and apparitions to saints and ordinary people.

God is SO active, we hardly ever take notice, unless we look hard.

How can you compare a hundred years of strife on Earth, to eternity with God; when He will put all things right?

Sometimes God interferes and sometimes he does not. To me its a paradox and will probably remain so.

The real experiences of God that people talk about in the New Testament and that occurred to Saints still occur today. I have found as I talk to more and more Christians that there are more encounters and miracles from God then people realize.

I agree. Thoughtful posts. Emphasis on the fifth dimension or spiritual dimension.

 

[SinnersAnonymus]

Anyone that reads the bible can see how much Jesus interacts with societies of that time period, and to be honest Ive wondered why in todays world, it seems he is nowhere to be found…??

What really surprised me is the Nazis and all they did was allowed to go on as long as it did, yet in biblical times, God literally destroyed enemies for Israel and his chosen people.

It makes me think of the ‘footprints’ poem, how God explained to the person that during the tough times, God was carrying the person, but how does this make sense when their particular times just got more and more tough, or I can imagine someone in a concentration camp thinking of that poem, but they go thru horrible torture day after day.

To take a look at the world today I can clearly understand how someone would think God is longer around LOL I dont believe that, but there must be a reason he takes no action whatsoever and lets the world continue down this path…I know many will say he is waiting for us to change, but CMON, that is never going to happen, things are only going to get worse, laws are in the pipelines in many countries that will be bad news for the church and any who follow God…all this and still no action, not even a small act??

I only question how long this can go on before everyone starts to wonder, and ask these questions.

Again, who said there was/is no action. The Old Testament is describing the highlights of thousands of years of a people that were chosen to be the lineage of Christ. Christ was in the plan of God’s will, and God was determined that he would be given the opportunity to be born. During this time humanity did not exactly show its best face across the globe. Finally when Christ came to guide us in a peaceful loving way, we instead killed Christ. When Christ died by humanity’s hand, instead of destroying humanity it was turned into our salvation.

We seem to be overlooking that suffering and death are foretold by Christ himself to his followers. However, as I described previously, God has the unique ability to turn suffering on its head.

While God loves us and cares for us, we still have free will. People are free to reject the teachings that the demonic exist and that one should guard their thoughts and feelings from diabolical influence (currently the situation in modern society).

It is not against flesh and blood we fight but against principalities and powers. We are given the truth from Christ’s teachings, all we have to do is accept it.

Nazis were occultists to the extreme. Those in power at the time had many opportunities to prevent them from obtaining power (at many points during their rise to power) but they gave in to Nazi demands until the Nazi felt they could conquer Europe. However, they failed.

People are free to live as they please and make laws as they see fit. God gave us laws to protect and guide us and even allow us to have a relationship with our Creator, but they are optional (God does not force us to follow them). If one tries to follow God, then it is warned that those who have fallen to the diabolical (using their free will) will hate and try to destroy them.

Christ showed us exactly how to deal with this situation. Not through a profound supernatural action (something like Angels storming down from Heaven) but by following God’s will, unconditional forgiveness, loving those who hate you, prayer, and peaceful self sacrifice. This is something anyone is capable of.

We live in a giant sandbox with the ability to shape things the way we wish. I think it is awesome that God will (visibly) interject at points but it is often through a humble willing person. Padre Pio, Moses, Noah, the Saints in general were all people (like you and me) willing to follow God and they were granted the ability to show God’s physical presence on earth.

Remember we are all called to be Saints. Also remember that simply spending a life in prayer while not as amazing as parting the red sea, can do just as much good if not more. Look at St. Augustine’s mother.

God Bless

 

[southeast_wisco]

Love is free or it is not love.