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oldcelt
Guest
To my belief He has never been active here on earth. We make our own bed, so to speak, in every way.
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mikekle
Guest
I have wondered about this many many times, and while I can somewhat understand why he allows some crime and evil acts, but when I hear of entire tribes of people living in third world countries, who are literally starving to death, they have no food or water!!
these people ONLY require a little bit of regular rain and their lives would be greatly improved, but they dont even get that!!! Things like this really make me wonder about the big picture and maybe we are misunderstanding some important things.
these people ONLY require a little bit of regular rain and their lives would be greatly improved, but they dont even get that!!! Things like this really make me wonder about the big picture and maybe we are misunderstanding some important things.
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Della
Guest
And where are the people who should be helping them? God has made us his arms and legs, voice and aid to the poor and neglected. If we don’t help as we are able to do so, then we will have to answer to God for it. Every supposed evil in the world can be matched with good deeds of love and tolerance. God put man in charge of the world and everything in it. We are the stewards of planet Earth. It’s up to us to make things right wherever we can.
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lakotak
Guest
Yes, this was what I was thinking. God gave man free will and along with this free will the awesome responsibility to take care of each other. Greed is the biggest reason why people go hungry, without the necessities of life. God would not create a world that was not fully capable of sustaining all life on it. But man’s greed with his free will has resulted in the hunger and conditions we see. God did not plan it this way, man did. The condition of the world, in this respect, is a man problem, not God’s seemingly inactivity into our world. If God was not active in our world, we wouldn’t exist. When man starts following the example of Christ, then you will see these conditions start to disappear.
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tonyrey
Guest
Why do we have a bed and the power to make it?
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oldcelt
Guest
Because we are a part of the creation process.
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Della
Guest
Creation denotes a Creator. If you are a Deist you cannot believe we are here by accident. So then, logically, if a Creator meant us to be here and made the earth inhabitable for man, why would he not care what becomes of us–about our lives–about sharing himself with us? Makes no sense to me, otherwise. He could have saved himself the bother and not made us at all.
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tonyrey
Guest
Doesn’t God sustain us and our power to choose what to believe and how to live?
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oldcelt
Guest
There is a great question, not just among Deists, regarding whether our presence here is accidental or intentional. But observation tells me that God has no impact on humanity or on the individual human.
Creation does not equal love in my book. Many things, and people are created and love has little or nothing to do with the process. These things make no sense to you, just as the revealed religions make no sense to me.
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oldcelt
Guest
No…there is no need for that.
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Della
Guest
Personal observation may be mistaken–mine too, of course. :tiphat: And what you are saying does make sense to me, in that I understand perfectly what you are saying.
If you want absolute proof of spiritual realities, then you will never find it since you need to be open to their possibility in order to understand. A lot of people have the idea that seeing is believing but it’s just the opposite–believing is seeing.
What Catholics claim is not absolute proof, we won’t have that until judgment day, no we claim there is solid, reliable evidence for what we believe. If you go with that understanding it makes much more sense.
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mikekle
Guest
Well, in many of these places, there is aid available, but the leaders of the country and other rogue military groups wont let most of it get where its needed.
I would kind of assume God would see this and at least give them some rain. Is that so much to ask?
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Della
Guest
Yes, it may be too much to ask. All of us have to endure the weather, for it rains/doesn’t rain on the good and bad alike. We’ve just gone through a brutal winter here in the US. Should God have cancelled winter because of that? Several people died due to the weather conditions, you know. Car accidents, people freezing to death, etc. We know we’re going to have bad winters from time to time, so we need to plan ahead for them. It’s the same in areas of the world where they have droughts.
You were right on in your first statement, but putting the onus in God’s lap after citing the fact that those poor people’s starvation is due to man’s decisions, isn’t going to solve the real problem, is it? People are starving because of bad leadership and partisan politics. That puts the ball squarely in our court, not in God’s.
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mikekle
Guest
Do you believe God can or does control the weather at any time? Or is weather something 100% natural and God has nothing to do with it?
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Della
Guest
God can definitely control the weather. There are many documented cases of God answering prayers to be saved in bad weather or for rain, etc.
However, in general, the world’s weather is what it is unless we ask God to change it. Now, droughts are common in certain regions of Africa and everyone knows this who lives there. Just as we here in the northern states know that we will get below freezing temps in winter. We, like them, prepare for it and plan around it. The reason the people you cited were starving is because their leaders let them starve, not because there was a drought. Like the monsoons that hit southern Asia, droughts are endemic to some parts of Africa.
The leaders there know this and took advantage of it to starve their enemies/rebels/those they wished to punish for opposing them. That was man’s fault not God’s fault. No two ways about it. In Scripture God is very specific that we are to care for those in need, not take advantage of them. Those leaders were in violation of God’s law, something they will have to answer for.
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oldcelt
Guest
I’m curious…documented how and by whom?
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mikekle
Guest
True, I also have heard of cases when God has altered the weather in extreme cases, and while it is true, people are aware of the particular weather conditions in a specific area, like regular drought, cold, etc. BUT if enough people pray and ask…could not God change the regular weather?
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oldcelt
Guest
Again I have to ask, when and where? I guess God doesn’t like the people of the Gulf Coast or NY-NJ. If God steps in for one group, but lets the others suffer then He is being highly inconsistent.
I know of not a single documented case where God changed the weather at someone’s request. People getting lucky do not count. There are cases of that in just about every natural disaster.
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Della
Guest
He has done that. We don’t know if anyone prayed in the instance you cited or if God’s answer was no, which is sometimes is. Why God says no is up to him, for if you ask for a gift why should you expect that you must receive one? Maybe God has something else in mind that is better, such as us getting off our butts and aiding those in need.
Again, the onus is on the humans who are there who can and should help those in need. As for natural disasters around the world, we live in a violent ecosystem. We all know that, as well. There really is no safe place in the world. In my part of the earth we are subject to blizzards, tornadoes and floods. People are killed annually because of these natural weather conditions. God isn’t going to suspend all the laws of nature all the time just so no one need die. We all die, not to be callous, but it’s true. What we make of our lives is what is important not how many people die from the weather or accidents or diseases or anything else.
Now, I am done with this discussion because I’ve answered as best I can and because we’ve taken the thread off topic. Good day to you. :tiphat:
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livingwordunity
Guest
God has been very active. God the Father actively created the universe and all that is in it. God the Son came down from Heaven to be born as one of us. He could have been born rich and powerful, but He chose to experience suffering, pain, and an agonizing death to atone for our sins and so that we can know that our God can truly empathize with whatever suffering we might go through. God is also active in the Holy Eucharist and in the Sacrament of Reconciliation where He forgives our sins through the ministry of the priesthood which He instituted. And God the Holy Spirit was active in inspiring the human authors of Sacred Scripture and continues to be active in protecting the Church from teaching error in matters of faith and morals with the Church’s charism of infallibility. And then there’s all the times when I came close to getting killed or dying or when I was so down and out that it seemed like there was no hope, but God sent an angel to protect me and answered my prayers. I believe that God started doing miracles to save me from myself and from the dangers of the world long before I even started to look for Him and even when I was living in sin.
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