Why is God so mean and so controlling?

[MaryEstelle2]

It is a matter of faith. How does one explain faith? I don’t know. For me, it is an inner conviction that GOD IS. I am sure others can come up with a far better explanation, I think everything else is a result of that conviction. I believe. Peace.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

God is not mean and controlling. He allows us to exercise our free will even when it goes against His designs. And He doesn’t condemn us to hell, souls choose to go there by not being repentant for the many offenses we commit against Him.

 

[kill051]

1. A small child wants to run out into traffic to retrieve a ball. The parent holds the child back as it would surely be killed due to the oncoming cars.
2. A small child wants to eat a hot fudge sundae for breakfast. The parent insists that the child have a nutritious, balanced breakfast, since the sugary treat would not be good for its health.
3. A small child wants to stay up late to watch a television program. The parent refuses to allow it, making the child go to bed at its regular bedtime.

In all three examples, the child’s desires, which fill its consciousness and are all it really knows, are thwarted by a parent who has the child’s well-being uppermost in mind. In each case, the child is resentful and thinks, Why is Daddy/Mommy so mean and controlling? It’s all a power trip! He/She just wants me to do what they say so they can have a slave! The child is not yet mature or thoughtful enough to see ‘the big picture’: that Daddy/Mommy has their health and well-being to consider, and will not allow anything to jeopardise that. In our relationship with God, the situation is complicated by our having been given free will. So not only do we resent His strictures on our behavior, but we have the power to ignore His commands and do what we desire anyway. Just as the caring parent pulls the child back from running into the road, gives it a proper meal, and enforces the proper bedtime, God could do the same and enforce our obedience. He does not in fact do that, because He does not want a universe of automata that obey Him out of compulsion. He wants His unfathomable love for us to be reciprocated by a corresponding love for Him on our part, and the way we demonstrate that love is by our obedience to His commands.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’d suggest the blog I suggested to you on another thread.

Also, 12 is young for this. Someone in his world is talking him into atheism, do you know who that is?

He’s a mildly autistic 12-year-old. The saying is that when you know one autistic person, you know one autistic person, but I’d bet dollars to donuts that the child’s environment (where he is constantly surrounded with religion) is actually causing the issue and not helping it.

We talked to him a bit about it last night. He has high functioning autism and part of his diagnosis iscthst he doesn’t get hierarchy. He often thinks punishments are unfair. Later on after much ado he’ll get that he is wrong. It is very hard raising a special needs child. Part of the run is that he constantly thinks he is equal to us. He gets this in his own. The doctor who diagnosed him about 3 Yrs ago said that about him. I pray a lot. We have him do a lot of chores so he gets what it takes to DO things and what has been done for him all these years. He’s going to take an art class over the summer too that I hope will help even further with his understanding of what it takes to do fine art. I’m teaching the course! Yay!

You mention you teaching a course, homeschooling, etc. He should be therepy (OT, etc) to help him cope and learn. Homeschooling is great but it sounds like he has issues that need to be addressed by a professional.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Really? I think God is showing remarkable restraint. That restraint has to do with the new covenant. We all should be glad that deal got made.

I agree. If it were not for the few that remain faithful, God would have destroyed the world in apocalyptic style already.

 

[goodcatholic]

I never thought He was a bully or mean, even in the old Testament. He was scary and his authority was made clear on several occasions. That makes him more interesting to my way of thinking. If he was just the nice gentle shepherd all the time, we might think he is a pushover and walk all over him. Nice to know there are boundaries. I feel safer that way actually.

 

[Jump4Joy]

I actually like this post so much. You’re audacity to ask the uncomfortable questions. It’s a little funny too

 

[Jump4Joy]

You seem to know so much about God, why do you have doubts about the faith? On some posts you sound so skeptical

 

[Theo2]

Indeed you have a difficult challenge. I’ll say a prayer.

 

[Mary888]

Because He is God. I bet your 12 year old would like to control many aspects of his life that he does not (like the amount of money to spend on games) but he can’t. Here he can empathize with God in His anger. Except your son is not justified to want this power because he did not make the games nor money happen ex nihilo while God has. So God is justified in everything He does and wants. The fact that He is sometimes mean and controlling is just an aspect of who He is. There is no way away from Him not even by ignoring Him.

 

[Gorgias]

You seem to know so much about God, why do you have doubts about the faith?

I don’t have doubts. That’s why I used the emoji. It was a “really? do you really think that ‘God is asleep on the job’? Why?”

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The “demands” God makes on us are what will lead us to happiness. Why do you demand that your son not stick his hand in a fire?

 

[kainosktisis]

God’s not mean or controlling. He is God, & I think that people want very readily to accept that He is Love, but they don’t like the aspects of His being Holy & Just. That aspect of His Being turns them away to see exactly how holy & just He really is.

If He were “trigger happy”, you’d have no say, & any action taken as unholy & unjust would immediately result in death. I take the Scripture’s words here:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

He is patient dealing with His creation that seems to be in constant rebellion with Him. The Israelites at that point in Bible history saw God in action. They witnessed the plagues in Egypt. They witnessed the angel in the pillar of fire stopping the Egyptians from attacking them. They witnessed the sea opening up as it did to allow them to cross from the land of bondage into freedom.

They entered into a covenant with God. You can read about it here in Exodus 24:

Exodus, CHAPTER 24 | USCCB

It is important to understand what a covenant relationship is because short of the New Covenant under which Christ followers are we have nothing in our modern times to equate. When I was in RCIA, the covenant was understood as a familial relationship. The parties entering into it swore to keep the conditions/laws/rules, etc. of the covenant.

Some links on covenants:

http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/covenant.pdf

From the Catholic Convert Website on Covenant:

"God forms his people Israel

CCC 62 After the patriarchs, God formed Israel as his people by freeing them from slavery in Egypt. He established with them the covenant of Mount Sinai and, through Moses, gave them his law so that they would recognize him and serve him as the one living and true God, the provident Father and just judge, and so that they would look for the promised Savior (Cf. Dei Verbum 3).

CCC 63 Israel is the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the LORD,” and “the first to hear the word of God” (Dt 28:10; Roman Missal, Good Friday, General Intercession VI; see also Ex 19:6), the people of “elder brethren” in the faith of Abraham.

CCC 64 Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts (Cf. Is 2:2 4; Jer 31:31 34; Heb 10:16). The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations (Cf. Ez 36; Is 49:5 6; 53:11). Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary (Cf. Zeph 2:3; Lk 1:38)."

Korah’s (& those who’d rebelled along with him) sin was great. He was rebelling against God’s priesthood.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’d bet dollars to donuts that the child’s environment (where he is constantly surrounded with religion) is actually causing the issue and not helping it.

Happy2bcatholic1:

Exactly. When a person has these questions and the answers they get back are more “because the Bible says so” it can drive a big wedge.

Reading things like Trent Horn’s “Why We’re Catholic” or articles by John C Wright are very important for parents, for all of us!

 

[kainosktisis]

Let’s look at that incident in Numbers 16: http://www.usccb.org/bible/numbers/16

It continues on in Numbers 17: http://www.usccb.org/bible/numbers/17

4 So taking the bronze censers which had been presented by those who were burned, Eleazar the priest had them hammered into a covering for the altar,
5
just as the LORD had directed him through Moses. This was to be a reminder to the Israelites that no unauthorized person, no one who was not a descendant of Aaron, should draw near to offer incense before the LORD, lest he meet the fate of Korah and his faction.

I kind of liken this to who can enter heaven. Only those called who have been sanctified can approach God to see Him face to face - on His terms. We never do it on our own terms, but we do it in accordance with His will. The priesthood incident kinda serves for me as a real life illustration of what happens when we try to dictate to God - rather than be obedient to Him - particularly when we’d accepted the terms of the covenant.

Maybe it doesn’t answer the questions exactly, but it might help to diffuse some of the anger raised to God on the matter.

In the case of Moses, as hard as his not entering the Promised Land was, I try to view it in light of “…for those to whom much is given, much will be required of them…” I would also remind you that Moses & Elijah had both appeared with Jesus at the Transfiguration. I guess you could look at it as Moses may not have entered the Promised Land, but in being in the Presence of Our Transfigured Lord, he was alive & entered into a better rest than we could ever dream or imagine…THE Promised Land…

God is asleep on the job…? We are alive because He breathes life into us daily. The world & the universe are in His hand. Is this a demand for daily miracles? I’m wondering if the words of Abraham to the rich man don’t apply here…:

From Luke 16:
29
But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’
30
He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31
Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

Define mistakes. Free will is not a mistake. It is the sign of a loving God. Even Jean Paul Sartre admitted that to have coerced love is not love at all…It must be freely given. The devil saw fit to seek to be God - not to love God. He actively chooses to kill God’s greatest image - mankind.

 

[Jump4Joy]

I thought you were an atheist or agnostic.

 

[Thorolfr]

God seems to be trigger happy with his punishments

I think so, too. This is one punishment that seems to me to be out of proportion to the offence:

Numbers 15:32-36 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
32 When the Israelites were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses, Aaron, and to the whole congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp.” 36 The whole congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

And I found this to be very disturbing as well:

1 Samuel 15 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
15 Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Why would God command that even infants and animals should be killed? And then there’s this one about how God struck down Uzzah for reaching out to steady the ark so that it didn’t fall off of the cart:

2 Samuel 6 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
6 David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 David and all the people with him set out and went from Baale-judah, to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the Lord of hosts who is enthroned on the cherubim. 3 They carried the ark of God on a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio,[a] the sons of Abinadab, were driving the new cart 4 with the ark of God; and Ahio[c] went in front of the ark. 5 David and all the house of Israel were dancing before the Lord with all their might, with songs[d] and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals.
6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen shook it. 7 The anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God struck him there because he reached out his hand to the ark;[e] and he died there beside the ark of God. 8 David was angry because the Lord had burst forth with an outburst upon Uzzah;

 

[Genesis315]

Sometimes a child thinks his father is so mean and controlling, because the father has seemingly strict rules or punishes the child. Most of us, when we grow up, see that our father did those things for our good, to teach us lessons and to protect us. While no parent is perfect, God is. The lessons He has taught his children throughout the ages–like a parent sometimes with harsh punishments, sometimes with strict rules, sometimes with mildness and sweet words, etc.–are to help discipline us so that we do not fall into the pit, but achieve everlasting life.

Hebrews 12:

4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons?—

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”

7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

 

[rose321]

OK. This is for both of you, then. I’m guessing though, that it’s going to be more beneficial to you, given that your life experience is more deep than his.

Respectfully toward >>Gorgias, I agree with and enjoyed reading your kind and compassionate>> reply to the topic question at hand>> nicely done!!

Interesting also within your reply>> brought to my attention like in the OT the NT >>Jesus seems to be addressing, strongly rebukes, not pleased with, having still serious issues with his>> P >> source, Priestly>>Laws that he did not ask for, addressed also within the writings of his Prophets> interesting is it not?
Peace

 

[kainosktisis]

So did I since the line of questioning is posed as an unbeliever would ask…