Why is God's Silent?

[kingston1]

Dave, good question! Question for you: is God required to speak audibly to us? I have not read the other posts yet so forgive if this has not been asked as well. Do you think Jesus could be God speaking to us in terms we can understand. If so, then what more do you need? If not, then I go back to my first question, what implicates God to speak to you audibly?

 

[Peter_Plato]

God does not really force you to do anything, but if you can clearly see his presence or hear him, you would not really be free to do as you please.

If you knew for sure that a teacher or parent was constantly watching, you would not be free to do anything you wish (even though they may not force you to do anything).

Doesn’t this rely completely upon the relationship that you have with the observer? If you feel intimidated by the presence of the person then you will feel somewhat encumbered by their watching you. However, if you completely trust that person and trust their abilities to offer insights and expertise you will feel empowered by their presence to look more deeply into what you do and why you do it so that, in a sense, freedom from your own limitations becomes possible.

I suspect that is why Jesus spoke of faith and trust in the omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence of God so that we are unafraid to look truthfully at anything and everything, within and without, so that the truth will truly set us free.

We will only hide our motives and thoughts from another if we feel threatened in some way by the presence of the “other.” Willing to know and act on “all truth” is freedom. If God is truth, then his presence should set us free, unless we have something to hide.

That does say something about the fall of Adam and Eve, because after doing wrong, they felt their nakedness and hid from Truth.

I think God does respect our need for “privacy” in the sense that he keeps his presence hidden from us until we are ready to “come clean” so to speak. That is why repentance is a first step towards “knowing” him. His knowing of us is revelatory to us because he shows us who we are in light of all truth, but that is only possible when we are willing to step into his light. That is why Jesus is the light that enlightens every human person.

It also explains, possibly, why some do not know God. Knowing God involves knowing ourselves completely because he brings light entirely to our inner being. The first step for those who think that God is silent would be to ask whether we “know ourselves” completely because in that knowledge, in deep silence, God makes himself present to us. God doesn’t need to break the silence, God IS the silence. Speaking would distort the message because who we are IS God speaking to us.

 

[shoe]

I don’t think that “God remains silent.” God speaks to our souls through that still small voice. Jesus says in Revelation 3:20: “Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me”; and the Son of God also says in John 10:27: “My sheep hear My voice." I don’t see any reason that God cannot or does not speak audibly to individuals through His Spirit, through the Bible, the Church, other people, or perhaps even in dreams and visions if He so chooses; God surely is able to make that happen. I believe that God is able to speak to anyone in a variety of ways. Actually, Psalm 19:1-4 indicates that God has never been silent: “The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands. Day to day uttereth speech, and night to night sheweth knowledge. There are no speeches nor languages, where their voices are not heard. Their sound hath gone forth into all the earth: and their words unto the ends of the world.”

 

[aragonjohn1]

God has never spoken to me audibly. I guess he hasnt spoken to you either.

Why is this?

According to the Bible God has spoken to and spoken through prophets.

Why choose fallible, sinful people to do his communicating?

You would expect a better method of communication would be directly i.e. to speak to each and every one of us directly.

God could implant his perfect message directly into every brain simultaneously.

This would by-pass the need for evangelists of the contradictory world religions.

Then we would all have certain proof of God, and all know exactly what we need to know to be saved, and a clear and perfect understanding of God, life and the universe.

Yet God remains silent. Your thoughts?

God can usually speak through silence remember the still quiet wind in Isaiah?
silence can also by answer God will always contains surprises in prayer. Eg: "be still and know that He is God "
God’s will be done

God bless

 

[inocente]

Actually, no. It is to say that their interpreters can and do engage in incoherent bumbling.

It would be incredibly naive to think that Jesus’ words have not led “interpreters” of those words to start tens of thousands of religious “denominations” without cause, if there didn’t exist interpreters capable of altering statements that, in and of themselves, are very consistent and coherent.

I quoted the Pope saying that “a contemplative attitude is necessary” and Jesus saying “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest”. You then said “Your quotes from Pope Francis and Jesus are so amenable to “interpretation” that, on their own, they mean nothing more than “don’t worry, be happy.””.

That’s your interpretation of their words, I never never gave an interpretation.

*Moderate with regards to truth? I think that is exactly the problem. It is NOT seeking truth “leaving no stone unturned” that is precisely the problem. We are not extreme enough seeking the truth and are prone to accept error because we tend to be lax with regard to what is accepted and then, once attached to the way we want it to be, we then become intractable.

The problem of vulnerability would be solved if we had a single-minded approach to truth - of seeking the truth completely and unreservedly. It is the antidote to extreme hardline fundamentalism.

The cultist claims have no immunity from critique, just as the claims you offer on these fora do not, even when you do threaten to call in the moderators or press the ignore button.

Why not simply answer the critiques, instead?

Truth has nothing to hide and is quite capable of answering for itself. Why should I fear turning into an extreme hard line fundamentalist when I am quite willing to expose my ideas to someone, like you, who endeavors to do their best to dispel me of my ill-conceived notions. I welcome your best efforts.

The fact that I have never threatened anyone with report to the mods or “ignoring” their replies, I think, stands for itself regarding truth claims. I want to hear the best that is offered in opposition to my thinking precisely because the truth does not scare me. I welcome it. I want, with all my heart, to know it.

It seems to me that a person who ignores critique or seeks protection from it is more vulnerable to cultism or succumbing to the influence of falsehoods than someone who passionately seeks the absolute truth without compromise.

But, hey, that’s just me, I guess. *

How is this any different from what an extremist would say?

You characterize moderates as not caring about truth. You say we are not extreme enough, that we must be more extreme in our search for truth, and somehow that’s not being extremist. That’s doublespeak. You then reify truth by saying it is capable of answering for itself. No it isn’t.

When someone hears a voice in their head giving them instructions, it’s probably not God. If you really can’t see that it is psychologically dangerous to tell someone to relentlessly seek instructions from God so as to be “incrementally more capable of carrying out what would be the ‘final’ ones” then show that post (#14) to a priest or psychiatrist and ask their opinion. For that matter, post it to Ask An Apologist and ask if it’s sensible to ever give such advice, let alone on an internet forum where anyone can see it.

As for the other stuff, please respond where I raised it rather than jumping threads.

 

[tonyrey]

Dave, good question! Question for you: is God required to speak audibly to us? I have not read the other posts yet so forgive if this has not been asked as well. Do you think Jesus could be God speaking to us in terms we can understand. If so, then what more do you need? If not, then I go back to my first question, what implicates God to speak to you audibly?

It would seem that the moral teaching and example of Jesus are not sufficient to illuminate the darkness of eternity in any way whatsoever!

 

[Peter_Plato]

I quoted the Pope saying that “a contemplative attitude is necessary” and Jesus saying “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest”. You then said “Your quotes from Pope Francis and Jesus are so amenable to “interpretation” that, on their own, they mean nothing more than “don’t worry, be happy.””.

That’s your interpretation of their words, I never never gave an interpretation.

How is this any different from what an extremist would say?

You characterize moderates as not caring about truth. You say we are not extreme enough, that we must be more extreme in our search for truth, and somehow that’s not being extremist. That’s doublespeak. You then reify truth by saying it is capable of answering for itself. No it isn’t.

When someone hears a voice in their head giving them instructions, it’s probably not God. If you really can’t see that it is psychologically dangerous to tell someone to relentlessly seek instructions from God so as to be “incrementally more capable of carrying out what would be the ‘final’ ones” then show that post (#14) to a priest or psychiatrist and ask their opinion. For that matter, post it to Ask An Apologist and ask if it’s sensible to ever give such advice, let alone on an internet forum where anyone can see it.

As for the other stuff, please respond where I raised it rather than jumping threads.

Where did “relentlessly seek the truth” get changed into “a voice in your head” except as a little thought in your head?

Admittedly, what I did say was "God is giving you a break by working with you slowly and in small steps to get you where you need to be in time if you “work with him.” I also said, “…perhaps relentlessly seeking those instructions that make you incrementally more capable of carrying out what would be the “final” ones is the way to go.”

It is you who changed “instructions” into “voice.” That is interpretation and yours alone.

What is entailed from my statement is that we ought to be relentless about increasing your capacity for distinguishing between those “instructions” which do come from God from those which do not, which amounts to knowing God and knowing that the one you know is God and not “some voice in your head.” It is fine tuning your ability for reception by knowing yourself, the nature of your psychology and knowing God profoundly.

I see it no differently than assessing the truth value of the myriad of voices outside my head (friends, acquaintances, forum posters, news media, etc.) who are constantly trying to advise regarding the best course of action. Every voice (whether inside or outside my head,) including yours needs to be scrutinized for the “truth” of what it tells me. That is what I meant by making oneself “more capable” of carrying out the “final” (in the sense of “true”) instructions.

We are ultimately responsible for our actions and the “voices” or instructions we act on. Whether those instructions come from inside or outside our heads or are the result of our own “inner voice,” we do “follow instructions” or determinations of the will. We need to seek greater competency by making ourselves more capable of distinguishing truth from falsehoods, rather than merely acting because “it seems right.”

We do and must “act” all of the time, so inaction is not an option. Relentlessly making ourselves more competent to choose rightly is not, as you make it out to be, fanaticism. It is taking very seriously the repercussions of all our choices.

Your voice is also included as one of the “voices” that requires a degree of assessment precisely because it sets off alarm bells in my head, more so, in fact, than many of the “little voices” in my head, none if which, by the way, I accept at face value.

God is more the silent observer in the “cosmic” or “psychic” background rather than a voice that keeps impinging on the truth of what is. The “audibly distinct” voices sometimes are voices of truth, but not all. Just as your voice carries a measure of truth, but not always. We need to become more adept at discerning the difference between truth and falsehood before we can be capable of a decision regarding any of the voices, including our own.

 

[Mr_Clean]

I say with total conviction I was actually spoken to by God. Could have been someone else but I wont know for sure for awhile yet (hopefully). Anyway, I was in a period of seeking and drawing closer. I had been a fully engaged sinner prior so it was bigtime repent and believe. Well, sin was still the old guard so while doing my taxes I cheated so I would not owe. It happened without much thought. The instant the deed was done I felt like I needed to crawl under the floorboards and hide. God was not thrilled with me and I knew it for fact. I dropped to my knees and prayed “God I feel like Ive done something wrong but I dont know what”. A voice in my head but not my own said “get your bible now and open it.” I did and heard the voice again, “let it fall open”. As I did it opened and my eyes went right to a verse that said “have you stolen from me”. I instantly knew what God was talking about and I said I had already sent in my taxed its done. I didnt want to face legal issues but God said "call the IRS and tell them what you did. I didnt want to of course but did it anyway and in the end I submitted the proper form and paid what I owed. I was alittle freaked out about the whole bible lesson that I never paid attention to what book I read and for years Ive searched for that verse again. Seems like I found it in Malachi. I did have another bible lesson years later when I confronted my sister about her life and threw some judgement day stuff at her. It went bad and ruined our relationship. I asked God to talk to with the bible again because I felt like I upset Him again. This time I got “dont think you’re something you’re not”. There have been many times when I was going thru tough times and would read a daily devotion that would seem to answer directly something I needed to hear from God. So now that Ive gone on too long I will finish with God speaks. Pray for open eyes ears heart and ask Holy Spirit to deal with you. He will in His way.

 

[tonyrey]

I say with total conviction I was actually spoken to by God. Could have been someone else but I wont know for sure for awhile yet (hopefully). Anyway, I was in a period of seeking and drawing closer. I had been a fully engaged sinner prior so it was bigtime repent and believe. Well, sin was still the old guard so while doing my taxes I cheated so I would not owe. It happened without much thought. The instant the deed was done I felt like I needed to crawl under the floorboards and hide. God was not thrilled with me and I knew it for fact. I dropped to my knees and prayed “God I feel like Ive done something wrong but I dont know what”. A voice in my head but not my own said “get your bible now and open it.” I did and heard the voice again, “let it fall open”. As I did it opened and my eyes went right to a verse that said “have you stolen from me”. I instantly knew what God was talking about and I said I had already sent in my taxed its done. I didnt want to face legal issues but God said "call the IRS and tell them what you did. I didnt want to of course but did it anyway and in the end I submitted the proper form and paid what I owed. I was alittle freaked out about the whole bible lesson that I never paid attention to what book I read and for years Ive searched for that verse again. Seems like I found it in Malachi. I did have another bible lesson years later when I confronted my sister about her life and threw some judgement day stuff at her. It went bad and ruined our relationship. I asked God to talk to with the bible again because I felt like I upset Him again. This time I got “dont think you’re something you’re not”. There have been many times when I was going thru tough times and would read a daily devotion that would seem to answer directly something I needed to hear from God. So now that Ive gone on too long I will finish with God speaks. Pray for open eyes ears heart and ask Holy Spirit to deal with you. He will in His way.

Not to pray is a form of pride. It amounts to saying “I don’t care whether God exists and I don’t want to know!”

 

[Mr_Clean]

Tonyrey, I agree with you on that. What you said made think back to when my prayer life started. I prayed as a kid - you know “now I lay me down…” but Im thinking when did I actually think God was listening and its been a long time. I can’t imagine what people who dont pray feel like inside. What a dark twisted world that must be.

 

[inocente]

Where did “relentlessly seek the truth” get changed into “a voice in your head” except as a little thought in your head?

Admittedly, what I did say was "God is giving you a break by working with you slowly and in small steps to get you where you need to be in time if you “work with him.” I also said, “…perhaps relentlessly seeking those instructions that make you incrementally more capable of carrying out what would be the “final” ones is the way to go.”

It is you who changed “instructions” into “voice.” That is interpretation and yours alone.

If you’re suggesting that instead of “When someone hears a voice in their head giving them instructions” I should have written “When someone hears instructions giving them instructions” then I disagree.

Anyway, the thread is about God speaking, so I’m confused about why you’re objecting.

*What is entailed from my statement is that we ought to be relentless about increasing your capacity for distinguishing between those “instructions” which do come from God from those which do not, which amounts to knowing God and knowing that the one you know is God and not “some voice in your head.” It is fine tuning your ability for reception by knowing yourself, the nature of your psychology and knowing God profoundly.

I see it no differently than assessing the truth value of the myriad of voices outside my head (friends, acquaintances, forum posters, news media, etc.) who are constantly trying to advise regarding the best course of action. Every voice (whether inside or outside my head,) including yours* needs to be scrutinized for the “truth” of what it tells me. That is what I meant by making oneself “more capable” of carrying out the “final” (in the sense of “true”) instructions.

We are ultimately responsible for our actions and the “voices” or instructions we act on. Whether those instructions come from inside or outside our heads or are the result of our own “inner voice,” we do “follow instructions” or determinations of the will. We need to seek greater competency by making ourselves more capable of distinguishing truth from falsehoods, rather than merely acting because “it seems right.”

We do and must “act” all of the time, so inaction is not an option. Relentlessly making ourselves more competent to choose rightly is not, as you make it out to be, fanaticism. It is taking very seriously the repercussions of all our choices.

Your voice is also included as one of the “voices” that requires a degree of assessment precisely because it sets off alarm bells in my head, more so, in fact, than many of the “little voices” in my head, none if which, by the way, I accept at face value.

God is more the silent observer in the “cosmic” or “psychic” background rather than a voice that keeps impinging on the truth of what is. The “audibly distinct” voices sometimes are voices of truth, but not all. Just as your voice carries a measure of truth, but not always. We need to become more adept at discerning the difference between truth and falsehood before we can be capable of a decision regarding any of the voices, including our own.

That sounds less immediately psychologically dangerous, though the imagery of having to relentlessly choose between all these voices clammering away giving us instructions still sounds like a recipe for mayhem, and you’ve not even gone into how we’re supposed to know true from false. Maybe someone who is 100% psychologically robust could sustain this regime for a while, but even then it sounds risky.

Jesus says the opposite to this: “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

The mood is set by He shall feed His flock/Come unto me from Handel’s Messiah: youtube.com/watch?v=l-bAXm-A3Ls

I’d recommend letting the voices fall silent and give up trying to do it for yourself, for it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.

God speaks, we just have to be peaceful enough to hear Him.

 

[tonyrey]

Tonyrey, I agree with you on that. What you said made think back to when my prayer life started. I prayed as a kid - you know “now I lay me down…” but Im thinking when did I actually think God was listening and its been a long time. I can’t imagine what people who dont pray feel like inside. What a dark twisted world that must be.

It must be a continual state of solitary mental confinement from which there is no escape until we die, the worst punishment that can be inflicted on anyone - but in this case it is self-inflicted because no one can be absolutely sure there is no God. Just to allow for the possibility of being mistaken is to be liberated from complete isolation.

Even being with others is a form of torture if you think they can’t understand what you are feeling. It is like being in a foreign country where no one can communicate with you. You feel like a permanent exile in a world of your own condemned to suffer without having done anything wrong - except exist! But in fact it is a case of nemesis. At the root of the trouble is pride, an unwillingness to accept our fallibility. Every vice incurs its own punishment even though we may not be responsible. In a secular society we may be conditioned to regard God as a superstitious myth through no fault of our own.

It is wrong to assume unbelievers are necessarily evil. They may well be misguided but hopefully their misery can be a means of salvation if they long for a Friend who shares all their joys and sorrows. It may lead them to hope we have a Father who knows us better than we know ourselves and, above all, who loves us in spite of our defects. That is why as Christians we should be joyful and fulfil the words of Jesus:

“By their fruits you shall know them”.

Saints are not sad because they have a foretaste of heaven where no one is ever lonely and nothing separates us from one another because we have nothing to hide!