Why is Intelligent Design not offered in schools?

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Orogeny:
That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.

On the other hand, I know my wife and her two brothers learned about evolution in biology class in their Catholic highschools. Maybe your school was the exception rather than the rule?

Peace

Tim
The local Catholic school four of my children attend teach evolutionary biology. As a matter of fact, there are non-Catholics who attend the school because the other two Christian schools in town (Christian Reformed and Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod) teach only “Young Earth Creationism”.

The Catholic high school that my oldest attends teaches evolutionary biology.

The Catholic University at which I teach offers a graduate program in evolutionary biology.

Evolution and the Catholic Church are not mutually opposed to each other.

Blessings,
 
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Strider:
The solution is to disprove neo-Darwinism. Remember, he wrote The Origin of Species not The Origin of Life. This is the Achilles Heel of Darwinism and the logical point of attack. If we can knock neo-Darwinism out of the water, atheistic science is in deep yogurt.
You are correct to point out that the origin of life has nothing to do with evolution. We can say that we don’t know how life emerged on Earth, that is we don’t know the exact process. That is the honest answer, but that does not mean that a supernatural “explanation” should be entertained. That would be called the “God of the gaps fallacy”.
 
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steveandersen:
They’re supposed to teach it in school. Especially since they take state money and use state supplied textbooks.
Well that is a surpise since for the past two years our Catholic school has been raising money for text books. I can guarenty you that the state has not helped us out one bit.
 
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mikew262:
A Flying Spaghetti Monster invented the universe? You are comparing this silliness to a theory thats growing more in acceptance everyday?

If you can’t be serious, then don’t post.
hecd2 was being serious, and he was making a very valid point. I completely agree with the point he was making, and I’m a Catholic. If ID is taught in schools, then it should be restricted to philosophy or religion classes (as other people have said).
 
PhilVaz said:
Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is a growing noodly religion and less than a year old. In a few years, it might rival one of any number of pseudo-Christian or semi-Christian cults in numbers of adherents.

Phil P

It rivals them already. Furthermore it’s not just a set of irrational beliefs, you know. It’s based on logic and reason - Henderson has produced evidence that the mainstream science community is unable to respond to, so they just bury their heads in the sand. They refuse to debate Henderson in front of a neutral audience and that just shows they are running scared.

The problem is that there is too much invested in the current scientific paradigm. There is censorship out there you know. In spite of irrefutable data, Henderson has been unable to persuade any peer reviewed journal to publish his work.

Nevertheless, it is clear that global warming and all its attendant ills, such as violent hurricanes, are the consequence of the reduction in the quantity of pirates in the world.

No establishment scientist has ever attempted to refute that. And you know why?

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
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mikew262:
The study of science should deal with all possible theories. The judge was wrong.
Your statement calls for a certain qualification: “The study of science should deal with all possible scientific theories.” Since ID is a religio-philosophical claim rather than science, the judge was right.
 
As a Catholic and a parent it is MY business to instruct my child regarding creation and God.

I vehemently reject any attempt to interlope the concept of intelligent design into school SCIENCE. Open that door and you will not be able to limit WHO’S version of id or divine creation comes in. I insist, as a parent, that that remain MY decision. The strongest lobby for trespassing this absurdity that id = science comes from scriptural literalist, fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims. This whole premise is archaic.

Anyone who has a genuine desire to enlighten themselves on the facts of Evolution please consider this article from Nov 2004 National Geographic Magazine. It is written for the layman and does discuss this specific controversy.

Was Darwin Wrong?

magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/fulltext.html
 
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coyote:
Open that door and you will not be able to limit WHO’S version of id or divine creation comes in.
Precisely. I’m a public school teacher. The first thing that would come up is “which one” of the Intelligent Designer"s" are we to cover? Brahma? Changing Woman? Manitou? I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have to worry about Ahura Mazda, but I know that our district would have to cover the “Goddess.” We’d have to give equal time to everybody. Best that PARENTS cover this, just like it’s best if they cover sex. You don’t want a harrassed and harried teacher with 32 kids in a room designed for ten fewer students, who has little enough time to teach the basics, dealing with something as important as sexuality and which deity is responsible for the creation of the universe.
 
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kyleforu:
Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable? How do public school educators have such a stronghold on denying discussion of intelligent design to even be discussed? Is it the parents of the children who are against this or what? I just don’t understand this. Would someone more informed please explain this to me. Thanks.
Regardless of one’s personal beliefs, the concept of design is unscientific. Please consider this op-ed that I wrote on the matter:

Prepare yourself for the religious right’s latest attack on the science classroom. Following the defeat of “scientific” creationism, anti-science has resurfaced in the form of Intelligent Design. This Trojan horse, calculated for maximum political appeal, is more Orwellian than George Orwell himself.
In his novel 1984, Orwell warned of a future in which language is reversed to suppress reality. As the despotic Big Brother proclaims, “War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength”. With the Intelligent Design movement, religion becomes science as ignorance becomes evidence.
Science and religion are best understood as two separate domains. The method of science is to find natural causes to what we observe in the natural world. The purpose of religion is to connect with something higher than ourselves. One seeks to understand the Creation while the other provides a relationship with the Creator.
Science has succeeded so far in explaining the diversity of life. Universal common descent, the observation that any two species share a distant evolutionary ancestor, is one of the most well-attested facts of natural history.
Biological evolution doesn’t intend to discredit religion any more than plate tectonics bolsters atheism. Nonetheless, religious fundamentalists introduced the “alternative theory” of Intelligent Design to Christianize the science curriculum.
In the public square, design theorists insist that their movement is inherently religion-neutral. The source of design, they contend, could have been space aliens. When the cameras are off, their true colors shine through.
“Not only does Intelligent Design rid us of this ideology, which suffocates the human spirit, but, in my personal experience, I’ve found that it opens the path for people to come to Christ,” claimed William A. Dembski, a leading proponent of Intelligent Design.
The “suffocating ideology” that Dembski speaks of is methodological naturalism, the rule of thumb that science must avoid appealing to the supernatural. Divine intervention, therefore, lies beyond the realm of scientific investigation. Dembski, as a philosophizing mathematician, is an unqualified authority on the nature of scientific methodology.
Phillip E. Johnson, retired law professor of UC Berkley and founder of the Intelligent Design movement, is another unqualified authority on biological evolution.
If Johnson understood the nature of science, perhaps he wouldn‘t have said to the L.A. Times that “We are taking an intuition most people have, the belief in God, and making it a scientific and academic enterprise.”
For many people, the existence of God is a profound reality but never should one abuse biology to prove theology. Such overstepping of bounds would be a mockery not only of science but the mystery of faith.
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.” (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not, however, the litmus test for scientific inquiry.

We do not know by science that God created us, it is revealed only by faith:

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3

Peace.
 
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Donald45:
Your statement calls for a certain qualification: “The study of science should deal with all possible scientific theories.” Since ID is a religio-philosophical claim rather than science, the judge was right.
I’m not advocating a full-blown chapter on it, just a short mention that other theories do exist, including ID. Give a brief explantion on what ID is and then move on. This is all the proponents wanted. This is called “education”. Introduce students to all the theories.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised my viewpoint is not getting more support on this forum. I assume most here believe in some form of ID in relation to the earth’s creation.
 
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hecd2:
You said ‘all possible theories’ should be taught. So you didn’t really mean that? Just the ones you approve of?

Alec
evolutionpages.com
Ok, all possible theories that the majority of people agree are plausible. Sorry, you’re flying spaghetti monster didn’t make the cut.
 
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hecd2:
It rivals them already. Furthermore it’s not just a set of irrational beliefs, you know. It’s based on logic and reason - Henderson has produced evidence that the mainstream science community is unable to respond to, so they just bury their heads in the sand. They refuse to debate Henderson in front of a neutral audience and that just shows they are running scared.

The problem is that there is too much invested in the current scientific paradigm. There is censorship out there you know. In spite of irrefutable data, Henderson has been unable to persuade any peer reviewed journal to publish his work.

Nevertheless, it is clear that global warming and all its attendant ills, such as violent hurricanes, are the consequence of the reduction in the quantity of pirates in the world.

No establishment scientist has ever attempted to refute that. And you know why?

Alec
evolutionpages.com
Oh brother! :rolleyes:
 
mike << Ok, all possible theories that the majority of people agree are plausible. >>

Change that to majority of scientists. Science class is about teaching mainstream science. ID isn’t mainstream nor science yet, neither is Flying Spaghettism. They are minority views by a few fringe people. If ID be taught, FSM should be taught.

What the majority of the general population agree on isn’t a good criterion for science. About 50% of the people in this country are creationists (human beings created in their present form about 10,000 years ago), doesn’t mean that should be taught in science classes. Richard Dawkins wrote on this (the infamous “stupid, ignorant, insane, wicked” comment), and while he is often out of line, I happen to agree him there. Most of the general population would fall under “ignorant” when it comes to science issues.

Phil P
 
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mikew262:
Frankly, I’m a little surprised my viewpoint is not getting more support on this forum.
I am also very pleasantly surprised. It is nothing short of wonderful that a significant percentage of believers understand the difference between science and religion. Now if only they would apply their reasoning powers to a wider circle of “hypotheses”, that would be truly awesome. 😉
 
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mikew262:
I’m not advocating a full-blown chapter on it, just a short mention that other theories do exist, including ID. Give a brief explantion on what ID is and then move on. This is all the proponents wanted. This is called “education”. Introduce students to all the theories.
Actually, if there were other scientific theories of how life arrived at it’s current stage, I don’t think there would be any (or very little) scientific opposition to it being taught. ID is not a scientific theory. Alec’s post is a very good illustration of the way that ID supporters have tried to make ID a scientific theory. Unfortunately for ID supporters, just calling it a scientific theory doesn’t make it one.
Frankly, I’m a little surprised my viewpoint is not getting more support on this forum. I assume most here believe in some form of ID in relation to the earth’s creation.
The vast majority of posters on these forums probably do believe that God, not some form of ID, created not just the earth, but everything. Many of us understand that that belief is part of our faith and not subject to scientific investigation. I don’t need science to tell me the wonders of God. He has done that Himself.

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.

On the other hand, I know my wife and her two brothers learned about evolution in biology class in their Catholic highschools. Maybe your school was the exception rather than the rule?

Peace

Tim
It’s possible but then again I was only there until 8th grade.
When I went to public High Scool we learvned about it.
 
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MonicaC:
Well that is a surpise since for the past two years our Catholic school has been raising money for text books. I can guarenty you that the state has not helped us out one bit.
Well things vary from state to state. There are some states whose citizens get no services whatsoever (the flip side of low taxes). And I went to grade school back in those heady post-Sputnik days of the 60s and 70s when the public apparently cared for science education (true it was only out of fear of the great red bear but hey as a geek I’ll take what I can get)

I remember distinctly Sister telling us that missing school was a terrible thing because they got X dollars a day from the state per student because they taught certain state-mandated subjects. Times may have changed.
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mikew262:
Ok, all possible theories that the majority of people agree are plausible.
Science isn’t a democracy
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Hitetlen:
I am also very pleasantly surprised. It is nothing short of wonderful that a significant percentage of believers understand the difference between science and religion.
And why would you be surprised, Hitetlen?
We’re not literalists or fundamentalists.

We’re Catholics…you remember…the folks who brought you the Renaissance. 😉
 
Seems ok to me to separate science and religion as long as you don’t MAKE science your religion.
 
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