Why is it a sin to lust after a person other than your spouse, but homosexual lust is not?

[bingbang]

Jesus says that if you think about another woman other than your wife with lust, you have already committed adultery. So obviously that is a sin. But I keep reading that having homosexual thoughts are not a sin, just acting on them is a sin. Where is the distinction? What thoughts are sins and what thoughts are not?

And if the “homosexual thoughts” that are not sins are not lustful, then what are they?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Jesus says that if you think about another woman other than your wife with lust, you have already committed adultery. So obviously that is a sin. But I keep reading that having homosexual thoughts are not a sin, just acting on them is a sin. Where is the distinction? What thoughts are sins and what thoughts are not?

And if the “homosexual thoughts” that are not sins are not lustful, then what are they?

I’m not sure what you read, so it’s hard to know what the writer meant.

I don’t think the distinction you think is there is actually there at all. Lust is sinful, period. Temptations are not. If one is tempted to lust after (whomever) that’s not sinful if one does not dwell on it and take pleasure from it and fights it. If one entertains it, it’s sinful if the object is other than one’s spouse. Even lusting after one’s spouse can be sinful if the thought itself is the objective, not the sexual act or intended act.

 

[bingbang]

I’m not sure what you read, so it’s hard to know what the writer meant.

I don’t think the distinction you think is there is actually there at all. Lust is sinful, period. Temptations are not. If one is tempted to lust after (whomever) that’s not sinful if one does not dwell on it and take pleasure from it and fights it. If one entertains it, it’s sinful if the object is other than one’s spouse. Even lusting after one’s spouse can be sinful if the thought itself is the objective, not the sexual act or intended act.

How can you be tempted to lust? If you are tempted to lust you must have already had lustful thoughts. You can’t think “Should I think impure thoughts about this woman I am looking at” without actually thinking impure thoughts.

 

[Corki]

Lustful thoughts can be sinful - heterosexual or homosexual ones. The level of culpabilty depends on whether the thinker dwells on them, encourages them, etc.

Lusting after someone is not the same as a lustful thought that might be transient.

 

[Barbkw]

What the Pope meant concerned a same-sex-attracted person’s inclination to desire sex with members of his/her own gender.

That is not a sin. That is their state of being.

Same sex attracted persons are called to chastity and not to follow or engage in homosexual acts.

 

[EphelDuath]

How can you be tempted to lust? If you are tempted to lust you must have already had lustful thoughts. You can’t think “Should I think impure thoughts about this woman I am looking at” without actually thinking impure thoughts.

Thoughts themselves are not a sin. Entertaining them and letting them affect you is, however, since that’s subject to the will.

 

[davidv]

Jesus says that if you think about another woman other than your wife with lust, you have already committed adultery. So obviously that is a sin. But I keep reading that having homosexual thoughts are not a sin, just acting on them is a sin. Where is the distinction? What thoughts are sins and what thoughts are not?

And if the “homosexual thoughts” that are not sins are not lustful, then what are they?

The Church defines lust as:

2351 *Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

There is no distinction between hetersexual or homosexual in this definition. In all cases lust is sinful.

 

[Ridgerunner]

How can you be tempted to lust? If you are tempted to lust you must have already had lustful thoughts. You can’t think “Should I think impure thoughts about this woman I am looking at” without actually thinking impure thoughts.

This reminds me of the old Kipling story about an Englishman who heard that some Indian fellow could make gold out of mud. So he sought the man out and found him. He then asked him how, exactly, he did it. The old man told him he would tell him for one English pound, so the Englishman paid him.

“Well” the old Indian then said “First you get a large pot. Then you build a fire under it. Then you fill the pot with dirt and water. Boil it for awhile, then let it cool.” Meanwhile, the old Indian was doing just that. He then reached into the bottom of the pot and pulled out a couple of little lumps of gold.

The Englishman was astonished, and was eager to try it himself and get rich. Just as he turned to leave, the old Indian said “Oh yes, there’s one more thing. Whatever you do, don’t think of brown monkeys during any part of the process, or it won’t work.”

The moral of the story is that we really can’t keep things totally out of our heads, particularly if we know we should. Temptations come and go. Temptations to all kinds of things. If they didn’t come into our minds, they wouldn’t be temptations at all. They would be nothing. But we don’t have to dwell on them, take pleasure in them, focus on them.

If a picture of a nude woman comes into my head, is that a temptation or is it lust? It’s just a temptation if I don’t dwell on it and try to focus on something else. But if I keep the picture there and examine her in every mental detail and begin to experience some kind of excitement about her, and focus on her, perhaps intending to become excited or imagine myself having sex with her, that’s lust.

And by the way, that applies to more than just sex. We can “lust” after money, or power or beautiful cars or trips to Cancun or whatever. Those are 'false gods", and we are mightily tempted to worship them.

Sometimes, I’ll grant, it’s not the easiest thing in the world to know where the dividing line is. But I think, by and large, that we do know. God does not expect us to succeed in all things. But he does expect us to try with what strength we have.

 

[Barbkw]

For instance, I am a heterosexual female. I know that I am only attracted sexually to men.

As a heterosexual female, I practice chastity. I succeed at being chaste by avoiding all activities which I know (or I think might) “turn me on” sexually. And, I know that having sexual relations with a man outside of marriage is a mortal sin.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Jesus says that if you think about another woman other than your wife with lust, you have already committed adultery. So obviously that is a sin. But I keep reading that having homosexual thoughts are not a sin, just acting on them is a sin. Where is the distinction? What thoughts are sins and what thoughts are not?

And if the “homosexual thoughts” that are not sins are not lustful, then what are they?

Both are gravely sinful. Don’t fall for the false compassion of embracing sin.

 

[Edward_H]

All lust is a sin. Lust is seeking our desires to be fulfilled selfishly through others. It’s pursuing our “happiness”/sexual contentment over the true goodness of someone else.

Attraction and lust aren’t the same thing I don’t think. I am attracted to different things…but they need to placed in proper order. First, I should seek to please only God.

One way for me to do that is to put my wife first. When I love my wife, my goal is to please her, to give her a pleasing union, a foretaste of her union with God. I please God this way, but the key point is that I am offering what I am given as well and as selflessly as I can.

I was given a wife, and I need to treat that gift tenderly and to help my wife seek holiness, for example, by not selfishly pursuing my own sexual satiation, by not treating her like an object to satisfy me.

In the end real happiness is holiness.

 

[Barbkw]

Bingbang,

I did a quick search on what Pope Benedict has said about same sex attraction and those people who reject chastity and instead embrace a life of homosexual sexual actitivity and lifestyle.

Doctrinal document On the Collaboration of Men and Women in the Church and in the World, July 31, 2004

…According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’. They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity.

The homosexual inclination is however ‘objectively disordered’ and homosexual practices are ‘sins gravely contrary to chastity’.

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.

One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.

Doctrinal document Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, July 31, 2003

Ratzinger’s “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons,” 1986, as reported by National Catholic Reporter

Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.

It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church’s pastors wherever it occurs…

The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in work, in action and in law.

“Cardinal Ratzinger on Laicism and Sexual Ethics,” Zenit.org, Nov. 19, 2004:

…Men and women were created to be jointly the guarantee of the future of the humanity — not only a physical guarantee, but also a moral one.

Above all, we must have great respect for these people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people.

Because God loves us, because He wants us to grow into truth, He must necessarily make demands on us and must also correct us.

 

[dailey]

All lust is a sin. Lust is seeking our desires to be fulfilled selfishly through others. It’s pursuing our “happiness”/sexual contentment over the true goodness of someone else.

Attraction and lust aren’t the same thing I don’t think. I am attracted to different things…but they need to placed in proper order. First, I should seek to please only God.

One way for me to do that is to put my wife first. When I love my wife, my goal is to please her, to give her a pleasing union, a foretaste of her union with God. I please God this way, but the key point is that I am offering what I am given as well and as selflessly as I can.

I was given a wife, and I need to treat that gift tenderly and to help my wife seek holiness, for example, by not selfishly pursuing my own sexual satiation, by not treating her like an object to satisfy me.

In the end real happiness is holiness.

So all lust is a sin but whether you dwell on it or not determines whether it is a mortal one? Correct?

I love your last paragraph! Too bad all men didn’t think like that.

 

[Corki]

So all lust is a sin but whether you dwell on it or not determines whether it is a mortal one? Correct?

I love your last paragraph! Too bad all men didn’t think like that.

Lust is a sin and the bible specifically condems lusting after someone in your heart. But not every sex-related thought about another person is lust. We are naturally inclined to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. I can find someone physically attractive, even sexy, without lusting after him. Thank God!

Fantasies or intentionally lustful trains of thought can be dangerous. Even if the object is your spouse, you risk objectifying him/her. On the other hand, mentally planning out (or remembering) a sexy evening with your spouse would probably be a good thing, even if you dwell on it.