Why is it absurd to live for God?

[Abba]

‘Assuming’ God as he is described in the Bible, does exist, and as such, is the creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen, why do you think it would be absurd to live for Him?

Please allow the people who think it is absurd to live for God to share their understanding. Then, those who do not think it is absurd can share their understanding. I do not expect the thread to hit rock bottom before someone answers. Thank you.

The purpose of this thread is to give those that hold such views the opportunity to share them and for others to explain why do not not think it is absurd. The hope, of course, is that those who hold such views may come to appreciate the reasons why others do not.

Peace,

Abbaopcorn:

 

[Altruist]

Wow, one could draw on many a biblical verse in support of why one ought to live for God, but let me just start by saying, if God is thy Creator, thy Redeemer, thy FATHER, Who LOVES thee with all that He has because He IS love, then why not love Him back? Why not do so to the extent of living for Him? Yes, it will take a lot of your personal time, but if God isn’t worth your personal time, then what is He worth? God created us, gave Himself to us on so many levels. Decide firmly that God is worth your efforts, just as He has proven repeatedly that He thinks you are worth His, and show God appreciation. Love Him back, live for Him.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I can’t offer a reason that hasn’t already been put forth as to why it is not absurd, but I know why some believe it would be:

1 Corinthian 1:18 says:

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

As for why I live for God…any answer I give can’t do justice, except to say that when you love someone as much as this, how can you not make that person part of your everyday life? It is a love even more intimate than marriage. To separate God from my life would be like trying to separate black from white. It just seems utterly nonsensical. There is no black in white, and there is nothing in my life if not for God.

 

[odhiambo]

‘Assuming’ God as he is described in the Bible, does exist, and as such, is the creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen, why do you think it would be absurd to live for Him?

“Assuming” implies that you have doubts as to God’s existence. Is that the case?
God does exist and the one good reason for doing anything at all in this world and indeed in the world to come, is to do it for Him and that includes living for Him!

 

[wanstronian]

‘Assuming’ God as he is described in the Bible, does exist, and as such, is the creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen, why do you think it would be absurd to live for Him?

Please allow the people who think it is absurd to live for God to share their understanding. Then, those who do not think it is absurd can share their understanding. I do not expect the thread to hit rock bottom before someone answers. Thank you.

The purpose of this thread is to give those that hold such views the opportunity to share them and for others to explain why do not not think it is absurd. The hope, of course, is that those who hold such views may come to appreciate the reasons why others do not.

Peace,

Abbaopcorn:

“Assuming God as he is described in the bible”

You mean a whimsical, cruel, vengeful, jealous, misogynistic, racist, immoral, hypocritical, dictatorial sociopath…?

(Have you read the bible?)

A more appropriate question is why would anyone want to live for such a horrible being?

 

[tonyrey]

How can it be absurd to live for Love? It is absurd to live as if love is a myth!

 

[OvrlapnMagstria]

Why live for the God of the Bible?

Fear. Absolute fear.

You cannot deny that God, as described in the Bible, does not treat people who deny or oppose him kindly. The Old Testament is filled with cities burned, first born children killed, plagues, and suffering sent onto those who are not in favor with God. The New Testament calms down, but introduces the idea of Hell, where souls are tortured for all eternity with no chance of redemption. If the choice is to either live for God or suffer immense harm, it makes sense to live for Him if only to avoid His wrath.

Although, it doesn’t reflect on His character very well.

 

[LifeIsAbsurd]

wanstronian:

You mean a whimsical, cruel, vengeful, jealous, misogynistic, racist, immoral, hypocritical, dictatorial sociopath…? A more appropriate question is why would anyone want to live for such a horrible being?

You’ve argued only that the hypothetical god is immoral and unworthy of worship. In my opinion, you’ve not successfully argued that it’s absurd to follow such a god, especially if he tempts you wish promises of immortality if you follow him and endless fiery torture if you do not. Edit: It looks like OvrlapnMagstria explained that concept very well–

OvrlapnMagstria:

The Old Testament is filled with cities burned, first born children killed, plagues, and suffering sent onto those who are not in favor with God. The New Testament calms down, but introduces the idea of Hell, where souls are tortured for all eternity with no chance of redemption. If the choice is to either live for God or suffer immense harm, it makes sense to live for Him if only to avoid His wrath. Although, it doesn’t reflect on His character very well.

 

[mdrummer5]

“Assuming God as he is described in the bible”

You mean a whimsical, cruel, vengeful, jealous, misogynistic, racist, immoral, hypocritical, dictatorial sociopath…?

(Have you read the bible?)

A more appropriate question is why would anyone want to live for such a horrible being?

You obviously have read the bible. Please explain how you came to this conclusion (especially the racist part). Also please remember that while on these forums you’re supposed to respect the beliefs of others. Most here believe in God. You obviously only believe in yourself given the “none” next to the religion portion of your info but nobody’s calling YOU a horrible being despite your blatant disrespect.

 

[UnityofTrinity]

You mean a whimsical, cruel, vengeful, jealous, misogynistic, racist, immoral, hypocritical, dictatorial sociopath…?

Here’s my question for you. Since for these descriptions to be correct, there must be morality. Now since Atheists don’t accept God and CANT accept the existence of a God, I would like to ask where would you get your moral authority? Without a moral authority, one can’t imply anything. Without a moral authority, then all there’s left is solely your own opinion, so basically you’re saying: "In my opinion, God is so-and-so…), as far as I concern, I could say right now that Mother Teresa is a great evil and Hitler is a saint.

By the way, I wonder where did you get racist from? Also, God is a jealous God, but you should probably check your theology to see what’s jealous mean. Asssuming that there are no other gods, who’s God jealous for? Without that jealousness, would God sacrifice His only Son to redeem humanity? Without that jealousness for man’s salvation, nothing would be impossible.

 

[UnityofTrinity]

Why live for the God of the Bible?

Fear. Absolute fear.

You cannot deny that God, as described in the Bible, does not treat people who deny or oppose him kindly. The Old Testament is filled with cities burned, first born children killed, plagues, and suffering sent onto those who are not in favor with God. The New Testament calms down, but introduces the idea of Hell, where souls are tortured for all eternity with no chance of redemption. If the choice is to either live for God or suffer immense harm, it makes sense to live for Him if only to avoid His wrath.

Although, it doesn’t reflect on His character very well.

You should also remember that the Old Testament is not solely teachings, but different from all other sacred texts, the Old Testament reflect social norm and the history of the Jewish people. In many cases, God never agreed with what His people does, God never said it was ok to do certain things. You should also note that in comparision between how the Pharaoh killed the first born(literally slain them) vs God’s way(gently take their souls aways), which is better. I also ask you that how many chances God gave mankind, so it’s not God that punishes man, but it’s man that disconnect himself with God, thus causing chaos in their life(often seen in the Old Testament)

My question to you is why would one fear? Imagine 2 students, one is always prepared and the other one is a slob, if two are on the same test, would the first student afraid? No, because the first student is prepared for what to come. So when you say it’s because of fear, I must disagree, because if any Christians who live and love God with all their hearts, there shall be no fear in them, but love.

 

[wanstronian]

You’ve argued only that the hypothetical god is immoral and unworthy of worship. In my opinion, you’ve not successfully argued that it’s absurd to follow such a god, especially if he tempts you wish promises of immortality if you follow him and endless fiery torture if you do not. Edit: It looks like OvrlapnMagstria explained that concept very well–

Fair point - I (perhaps wrongly) interpreted the OP as asking why it would be absurd to want to live for God - in other words, to accept him willingly.

 

[wanstronian]

You obviously have read the bible. Please explain how you came to this conclusion (especially the racist part).

These characteristics are well-documented - do you* really* need me to give chapter and verse? I can, and will if you’re really unaware of what’s in the OT.

Also please remember that while on these forums you’re supposed to respect the beliefs of others.

Respect is not something one can choose to have. But as it happens, I don’t deny anyone their belief. I’m just pointing out that the biblical representation of God presents a rather nasty chap.

Most here believe in God. You obviously only believe in yourself given the “none” next to the religion portion of your info

How do you figure that - I don’t believe in a god, therefore I don’t believe in anything? What an odd conclusion you’ve reached!

but nobody’s calling YOU a horrible being despite your blatant disrespect.

Well, disrespect is not a reason to consider someone horrible, unless you have an unbelievably sensitive nature. And if that is the case, the problem is yours, not mine.

 

[wanstronian]

Here’s my question for you. Since for these descriptions to be correct, there must be morality. Now since Atheists don’t accept God and CANT accept the existence of a God, I would like to ask where would you get your moral authority?

The same place everyone else does - it’s a memetic necessity for the structured and disciplined societies in which humans exist. We’re moral because ultimately, it serves our individual purpose. Religion may have hijacked this humanist morality and claimed they thought of it, but there is abundant historical evidence that people lived moral and structured lives well before any of the moral lessons were written in the bible.

Without a moral authority, one can’t imply anything. Without a moral authority, then all there’s left is solely your own opinion

Clearly untrue - you haven’t really thought about this, have you? The bible is an awful guide to morality. If you need examples of why, let me know.

, so basically you’re saying: "In my opinion, God is so-and-so…), as far as I concern, I could say right now that Mother Teresa is a great evil and Hitler is a saint.

Well, Mother Teresa was evil - she advocated keeping the poor in poverty because it was “good for them,” while living a life of luxury herself. Hardly the actions of a moral stalwart!

Hitler was definitely evil. And also a Christian, as is well documented. (It baffles me why Christians not only claim he was an atheist, despite all the evidence to the contrary; but they also claim his evil acts were caused by his atheism! Madness!)

By the way, I wonder where did you get racist from?

Deuteronomy 20:17 "Completely destroy them - the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusite - as the LORD your God has commanded you. "

What is genocide if not a racist act?

Also, God is a jealous God, but you should probably check your theology to see what’s jealous mean. Asssuming that there are no other gods, who’s God jealous for?

Indeed - so why did Moses say it? I assume you think that it translates as “zealous” rather than jealous, but this doesn’t sit very well in context with the rest of the verse. I think this is clutching at straws.

Without that jealousness, would God sacrifice His only Son to redeem humanity? Without that jealousness for man’s salvation, nothing would be impossible.

I fail to see the connection - can you explain?

 

[LifeIsAbsurd]

Abba:

‘Assuming’ God as he is described in the Bible, does exist, and as such, is the creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen, why do you think it would be absurd to live for Him?

At first glance, your statement is common sense. If we see God walking around–we may decide to follow him, rebel against him, or ignore him–but it wouldn’t be absurd to do what he says given the way he treats his friends and enemies.

Upon further reflection ,I have a concerns with your statement—

What precisely do you mean when you say he exists?

American Heritage -
exist - To have actual being; be real.
real - Being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verifiable existence.

When a Christian says “God exists”, he usually means He is. When an objectivist says “God doesn’t exist”, he usually means there is no evidence He is. Their debates are often more semantical than substancial.

If in your hypothetical world *God is *and all know God is, it’s hard to imagine a rational person saying “It’s absurd to live for God”. Some may choose to follow him in return for immortality, some may choose to follow Satan in return for fame, fortune, or power. Some may even rebel against both, or find their own way through life. But certainly, it wouldn’t be absurd to live your life for God.

If in your hypothetical world God is but we don’t know God is, things become murkier. A follower of God, even if correct, is behaving irrationally. If his behavior as he follows God falls too far outside societal norms he may be institutionalized. I once met am inmate who claimed there were bones in his toilet that could not be detected by our senses. If there actually were, would that make him any more or less rational?

But you didn’t use the word irrational, you chose absurd. Which makes the question murkier:

American Heritage:
absurd - 1.Ridiculously incongruous or unreasonable. See Synonyms at foolish.

This is in-line with a layman’s definition. The inmate’s claims would be absurd but true.

But in Philosophy, the Absurd refers to contradictions between the world as we imagine it and the world as it is. Within that realm of meaning, the inmate’s claims wouldn’t be absurd at all.

PS - And yes, I’m playing the Devil’s Advocate. How fitting! Monsieur Lucifer, you promise wealth, so wherefore shall I send my bill?

 

[Pieman333272]

Why live for the God of the Bible?

Fear. Absolute fear.

You cannot deny that God, as described in the Bible, does not treat people who deny or oppose him kindly. The Old Testament is filled with cities burned, first born children killed, plagues, and suffering sent onto those who are not in favor with God. The New Testament calms down, but introduces the idea of Hell, where souls are tortured for all eternity with no chance of redemption. If the choice is to either live for God or suffer immense harm, it makes sense to live for Him if only to avoid His wrath.

Although, it doesn’t reflect on His character very well.

I disagree. First of all, denying to worship God because hell exists will do you **well **- hell is nothing more than eternal separation from God. Not suffering, though that’s a possibility. If someone hates God, isn’t that right up his alley? Or do you operate on a literalist view of hell?

Also, I don’t think people worship God only for heaven, nor that God’s main way of getting us to worship him is the promise of such. I think God wants us all to have joy both in this life and the future one - God doesn’t promise heaven so that we worship him but he wants us to worship him so we may go to Heaven. Get what I’m saying? Also, I don’t think that only Christians and/or Catholics can get into heaven.

Finally, I think that heaven is not the only reason Christians will worship God. Personal Experience and Spirituality - those would probably also make one worship, or at least want to, as would, IMO, just *knowing *God exists in some cases.

 

[JackVk]

More reguritation of Richard Dawkins instead of thinking for oneself…why am I not surprised?

You have to understand how horribly sinful these cities were that were being destroyed. There was a reason for it. Modern-day Vegas had nothing on these nations. They would sacrifice babies to their gods and have mass orgies. If Israel let these cities remain, they too would slip into the same sins. It happens seven times in the books of Joshua and Judges.

And what does God do? He keeps letting Israel redeem itself. Seven times. Sounds pretty merciful to me.

And Hitler WAS an atheist. He explicitly admitted that any religious statements in his speeches were pure propaganda. He had the Jews killed off not because of their religion, but because he saw them as an inferior race, since he was a vehement social Darwinist. Jews could not escape death by saying “I am an atheist” or “I am a Christian” or “I no longer practice Judaism”. Even if a member of you family was a Jew, you were considered part of the Jewish race.

 

[Pieman333272]

Oh yeah, real, nonbiased historians rarely think Hitler was a Christian. The main possibilities are either he was a neopagan cultleader or an atheist.

 

[Altruist]

“Assuming God as he is described in the bible”

You mean a whimsical, cruel, vengeful, jealous, misogynistic, racist, immoral, hypocritical, dictatorial sociopath…?

(Have you read the bible?)

A more appropriate question is why would anyone want to live for such a horrible being?

Are you caught up in the Old Testament? Have you read the New Testament? Your comments sound like you haven’t read past the Old Testament, and/or are caught up in and hurt by God’s acts of Divine Wrath. Even the Old Testament is demonstrative of several acts of Divine Mercy. Divine Wrath and Divine Mercy are both present in the Old and New Testaments, and God justly executes all His deeds. Have you heard of Jesus? Do you know that Jesus is God? Jesus gave it all, my brother.

 

[wanstronian]

More reguritation of Richard Dawkins instead of thinking for oneself…why am I not surprised?

You have to understand how horribly sinful these cities were that were being destroyed. There was a reason for it. Modern-day Vegas had nothing on these nations. They would sacrifice babies to their gods and have mass orgies. If Israel let these cities remain, they too would slip into the same sins. It happens seven times in the books of Joshua and Judges.

And what does God do? He keeps letting Israel redeem itself. Seven times. Sounds pretty merciful to me.

And Hitler WAS an atheist. He explicitly admitted that any religious statements in his speeches were pure propaganda. He had the Jews killed off not because of their religion, but because he saw them as an inferior race, since he was a vehement social Darwinist. Jews could not escape death by saying “I am an atheist” or “I am a Christian” or “I no longer practice Judaism”. Even if a member of you family was a Jew, you were considered part of the Jewish race.

Assuming your post is directed at me, I should point out that atheists are not slaves to Dawkins. Indeed, Dawkins’ conclusions are hardly new, nor are they particularly taxing to arrive at. Your implication that I’m just repeating someone else’s work is incorrect and condescending. The OT, depicting the cruelty and immorality of God, is there for all to see. It doesn’t need Dawkins to point it out - a four-year-old could spot it. I assume your arrogant depiction of me as someone who just copies other people’s work is just some sort of strategy to belittle me, as (like your religious belief) it surely isn’t based on any evidence.

You claim that these nations were “horribly sinful.” What - every single person in them was “horribly sinful?” That seems a bit unlikely, don’t you think? The excuse that the kids would grow up with the beliefs of their parents is terribly weak. It’s interesting that one of the “horrible sins” they perpetrated was sacrificing babies to their Gods - this sounds right up God’s street (have you read II Kings 2:23-24? What about Psalms 137:9?)

Would you advocate genocide as an effective approach today, if your country was at war with another? Do you think the Allies should have murdered every last German during WWII? These are not rhetorical questions, if you were wondering - I’d like an answer.

Hitler was a loony Christian who despised organised religion. His statements against organised religion have been seized upon by Christians who are desperate to paint him an atheist. But he wasn’t. He believed in God, and believed he was doing God’s work. And the Catholic church publicly supported him.

Why would atheism lead someone to target Jews? By what process does an absence of religious belief lead someone to target a specific religious group? The idea is nonsense - far more likely that Hitler was a Christian, even without his statements confirming the fact.

It’s another common misconception of unthinking Christian theists that Hitler was advocating Darwinian selection. (It’s clearly a defence mechanism - pick the most evil man in recent history and use him to try and bad-mouth atheism and Darwinism, the two biggest thorns in Christianity’s side). But in reality, Hitler was neither an atheist nor a Darwinist. Really, you should read up on this - it’s pretty outrageous that you accused me of not thinking for myself when you trot out ill-considered, erroneous dogmatic rhetoric like this. Hitler hated Darwin’s ideas, and outlawed the Origin.

Really, you don’t seem to have a clue what you’re talking about.