Why is it important that Jews recognize Jesus?

[Splinker]

If Jews follow their faith, you have two sets of people behaving morally and loving God, is it really important that they change how they worship God by believing in Jesus? I guess this is a two part question. What is the importance rationally and what is the importance theologicaly?

 

[hansard]

Well, in answer to the question in the thread’s title: it’s not really important to the Jews at all, to recognise Jesus.
As a Catholic, it’s not particularly important to me whether or not they recognise Jesus. I mean, it would be nice to think that they might one day come around to Christianity, but I can’t see it happening. I see the Jews as fellow believers, to a large extent. They just remain tied to the old law.
Recognising Jesus as a historical figure is one thing (you know–he lived and had some good things to say); recognising him as the son of God is an entirely different matter. It is in this latter distinction that the intractable “line in the sand” is drawn.

If the Jews recognised Jesus as the son of God (and all that entails), their whole religion would change irrevocably–sacred texts, rituals, ceremonies, theology (but perhaps not ethics).

 

[KathleenGee]

Interesting…many Catholic priests and monsignors think, why bother…the Jewish believers (vs those who don’t believe) have God, which I agree.

Then I got a pamphlet from an old Catholic priest who was Jewish…should I say Hebrew? and he said yes, we should hope they come to Christ. I read it when my kids were little…scanned it and I don’t recall how we should approach a Jew.

I took care of an orthodox Jewish lady. She would get hurt if I didn’t eat her bagels as I was trying to go on a diet. So I ate them and they were so good.

She said the first day I walked in she felt God in me. She always would get with me on sharing on God…she later showed me a track her husband showed her…about Isaiah describing the future messiah and how everything was fulfilled showing then the Gospels. She showed me it and said what did I think, and I said you look at the context…in other words, how God through the gathering of the believers would see that…and I think she got my deeper perspective that to understand the Messiah and Who He is, you have to understand Him officially in the context of a gathering of people…not a tract that just points to Scripture…you have to find out the source who wrote the tract…

That initial step of just revealing Who Christ is in fulfilling the Messiah isn’t enough…who is the gathering and how do they implement the understanding of the Messiah…

She always spoke of the priest across the river who had the spirit of St Francis and took care of the poor and fed and blessed the animals…and the high educational level of Catholics.

I have a humanist Jewish client and when I shared with her one of mine went to a fundamentalist church she was very sad. Because she knows the immense value of keeping family and kin together in common culture and gathering and not breaking our bonds to another construct that splinters.

And that is what I saw in the tract was no source and a splinter.

You have to affirm the presence of God in the Jewish people…I see great presence of God and fidelity to the wisdom of the Bible with these people…and so in the spirit of Emmaus, our hearts burning within…this is not so much a discernment for private revelation, but rather the form of evangelical catechesis that we take with the Jewish people…

Be in relationship and dialogue and share and find common ground…ten commandments and a faithful heart, being educated, respecting God’s name…they are very sensitive to hearing you say something, like, ‘My God’, which is offensive to them and very revealing to you and how and where y ou are with God.

She met my pastor at a restaurant and wanted to see him again. She always called him Rabbi. I have another Jewish friend whose grandparents were Italian Catholic and he made the sign of the cross with me, and I laughed because he did it backwards…we talked alot about faith and culture and he said never leave ones’ culture.

How we bring Christ to them is just be in relationship with them and affirm them and share God’s presence with them…and give it time…don’t force…it is God’s work, not ours.

 

[Yerusalyim]

The CCC reminds us that Judaism is ALREADY a response to the call of God. God works Salvation THROUGH CHRIST…the HOW is up to him. In my personal theology I think its important that the Jews remain faithful to their covenant until the second coming of Christ…when the Jews start to convert wholesale, know that the end (and beginning) is at hand.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yerusaliyem

That is an interesting last point…and well taken…it jives with what I have experienced…the presence of God among the Jewish believers.

 

[RomanCath379]

I could never understand how the Jewish people do not recognize Christ as their Messiah. When it so clearly states so in every Book in the Old Testament. I seriously cannot figure out who they think the Prophets are actually talking about. For instance, many believe that the “Suffering Servant” in Isaiah, “Whose Stripes we are healed” is actually Israel. They think the Prophets are speaking about the Country and not Christ…I don’t get it. I feel sort of sorry for those who do not believe. Their days are numbered.

 

[Splinker]

I could never understand how the Jewish people do not recognize Christ as their Messiah. When it so clearly states so in every Book in the Old Testament. I seriously cannot figure out who they think the Prophets are actually talking about. For instance, many believe that the “Suffering Servant” in Isaiah, “Whose Stripes we are healed” is actually Israel. They think the Prophets are speaking about the Country and not Christ…I don’t get it. I feel sort of sorry for those who do not believe. Their days are numbered.

Without addressing your opinion, it has nothing to do with the question posed on this thread.

 

[RomanCath379]

Without addressing your opinion, it has nothing to do with the question posed on this thread.

Well it does considering the question of “the importance of Jesus.”

 

[StrawberryJam]

I could never understand how the Jewish people do not recognize Christ as their Messiah. When it so clearly states so in every Book in the Old Testament. I seriously cannot figure out who they think the Prophets are actually talking about. For instance, many believe that the “Suffering Servant” in Isaiah, “Whose Stripes we are healed” is actually Israel. They think the Prophets are speaking about the Country and not Christ…I don’t get it. I feel sort of sorry for those who do not believe. Their days are numbered.

Your CCC doesn’t indicate that the Jews days are numbered. What do you mean?

 

[Nine_Two]

If Jews follow their faith, you have two sets of people behaving morally and loving God, is it really important that they change how they worship God by believing in Jesus? I guess this is a two part question. What is the importance rationally and what is the importance theologicaly?

The only way to the Father is through the Son. If you live by the Law, you will be judged by the Law, and no man is worthy of the glory of God according to the Law.

 

[Splinker]

The only way to the Father is through the Son. If you live by the Law, you will be judged by the Law, and no man is worthy of the glory of God according to the Law.

Do you believe that an overriding criteria from which Jesus judges Jews is whether or not they believe he is the son of God? If yes, is this a teaching of the Catholic Church?

 

[Nine_Two]

Do you believe that an overriding criteria from which Jesus judges Jews is whether or not they believe he is the son of God? If yes, is this a teaching of the Catholic Church?

I’m not Catholic, I’m Orthodox.

All are judged in the same manner. There is only one path to salvation, through Christ. That said those who have never heard the gospel are not necessarily damned by that, for Christ may still intercede for them.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Some christians think it’s important so that the end will then come.

 

[Splinker]

I’m not Catholic, I’m Orthodox.

All are judged in the same manner. There is only one path to salvation, through Christ. That said those who have never heard the gospel are not necessarily damned by that, for Christ may still intercede for them.

ok. I understand the belief that the only path to salvation is through Christ. My question, I guess, is what does this mean. Will Jesus grant salvation to me despite the fact that I do not believe he is God? Can I attain salvation through Judaism?

 

[Nine_Two]

ok. I understand the belief that the only path to salvation is through Christ. My question, I guess, is what does this mean. Will Jesus grant salvation to me despite the fact that I do not believe he is God? Can I attain salvation through Judaism?

No, you can not achieve salvation through Judaism. This belief has been often condemned as heresy within the Church, St. John Chrysostom did a series of homilies on the subject (Against the Jews/Judizers) trying to drive the point home.

Whether Christ would grant salvation based on other factors is something else entirely, as those who do not know of him are not necessarily condemned.

 

[GraceDK]

Well, in answer to the question in the thread’s title: it’s not really important to the Jews at all, to recognise Jesus.
As a Catholic, it’s not particularly important to me whether or not they recognise Jesus. I mean, it would be nice to think that they might one day come around to Christianity, but I can’t see it happening. I see the Jews as fellow believers, to a large extent. They just remain tied to the old law.
Recognising Jesus as a historical figure is one thing (you know–he lived and had some good things to say); recognising him as the son of God is an entirely different matter. It is in this latter distinction that the intractable “line in the sand” is drawn.

If the Jews recognised Jesus as the son of God (and all that entails), their whole religion would change irrevocably–sacred texts, rituals, ceremonies, theology (but perhaps not ethics).

“Not really important”???
This is the most sad thing I’ve read from a Catholic.
Jesus died first of all for His Jewish people, He the is Jewish Messiah! In Paul’s letters he describes his agony and that he’d like to give his own life in order that his Jewish people might come to accept Yeshua their Messiah.
And it does not matter to you??? “As a Catholic”… As a Catholic you ought to first of all to believe that the Name of Jesus is the only Name given to man by which He can be saved, and that the first Covenant people is infinitly important to God. You then need to read the mission-command from Jesus to the disciples, which is also for you.
“You can’t see it happening” that Jews will come to believe in Jesus!
With your attitude I can see why. Because you for some odd reason dont think its our God given duty to tell them the Good News in the Power of the Holy Spirit, He who transforms hearts, if you’d let Him use you… Coz you dont find it important that Jewish souls are saved… you think they are fine just where they are…
Your post is certainly depressing. I can only ask you to read the Bible, start praying that God shows you how He wants to reconcile the Jews, his first son of adoption, to Himself. You know the key to Heaven is Jesus the Messiah and no one else has paid the price for the sins of the Jews as the one, who like Isaac, carried the wood on Moriah…

 

[GraceDK]

ok. I understand the belief that the only path to salvation is through Christ. My question, I guess, is what does this mean. Will Jesus grant salvation to me despite the fact that I do not believe he is God? Can I attain salvation through Judaism?

Dear sir.

From any Christian perspective we have to say no, because there is no Temple cult anymore, and if you do not offer your atonement sacrifice through the (Covenant) Blood of Messiah Jesus - the holy sacrifice of the first-Son without blemish - then what will you put in His place to reconcile yourself with G-d?

Where is your atonement ?
In the Books of Moses God bound Himself by covenant to his People who broke every covenant, until the end where the Jewish people, represented in the Jewish Messiah fullfills the whole law by bearing all the iniquity once and for all in a perfect sacrifice.
Man can destroy what he cannot rebuilt. Only God could heal what we destroyed in Adam’s sin and in our personal sin.

The Messiah came at the appointed time, but He was dressed in purple, unrecognisable in His blood, carrying the cross of our sins. Only God can make such a story about a Bridegroom who goes out into the wilderness to bring His unfaithful wife home and dress her in glory. It starts already in the Old Covenant that God stooped down to heal and save Israel… He becomes the Father and the bridegroom.
The humility of God because of His love for us is most wonderfully seen in the Mystery of G-d incarnate. Thats the climax.
That’s too deep to understand for those who seek a worldly messianic ruler and not God. Yeshua is the Prince of Peace that Isaiah prophesied (Is 9: 5 and Is 53:5-6). He is the New Adam that crushes the head of satan. He is the only beloved son who, like Isaac, carries the wood in total perfect obedience on Moriah. He is the Lamb whose Blood is put on the wooden door posts so the wrath of G-d passes by… He is the Lord who leads us in an exodus out of the slavery of sin.

You know, it says in the Torah that Israel will be the light unto the gentiles. In Yeshua, this word has come true.

Peace and Shalom.

Ps. Not to tell this Good News to the Jews would be a sign of indifference and coldness towards our Jewish neighbour.
If we do tell you about Yeshua its because G-d has shown His love for you, and because we love you too in Him. You are our older brothers and the people of the promises.

 

[RomanCath379]

StrawberryJam:
Your CCC doesn’t indicate that the Jews days are numbered. What do you mean?

Reread my post. It says “I feel for THOSE who do not believe.” Doesn’t say the Jews. And as an agnostic, how would you know what the Catechism says? Have you read all 900 pages of it?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Reread my post. It says “I feel for THOSE who do not believe.” Doesn’t say the Jews. And as an agnostic, how would you know what the Catechism says? Have you read all 900 pages of it?

Since when were agnostics unable to read?
I have read a very good deal of it. Any other questions for me?

 

[7_Sorrows]

i am not jewish, but i did take a 7 month discovering judaism class because i was curious to learn more about judaism and learn how the jewish people worshipped and to learn why they reject christianity. i am a recent convert to catholicism, but i was baptized and confirmed in a church very similar to the Catholic church. however, i always felt a special place in my heart towards the Old Testament and the Jewish people.

i found the Jews who worship at the synagogue regularly to be observant Jews. they are very obedient and their covenant with God is very important to them. their covenant with God is not seen as “old” and is still very much alive.

some of them see christianity as a false religion. the rabbi said that they believe when the messiah comes, he will stay and not leave to return again.

the Jewish people take offense that we refer to the Hebrew bible as the “Old Testament”.

i attended a few services and i could not help but feel sadness that there was something missing - that they did not know Christ as their Saviour and they seemed to be carrying a lot of burden. this was just my observation. i admire the Jewish people and they have perservered through so much persecution since the beginning of time.

i was hurt when the woman who was my Hebrew teacher has more or less rejected me since i converted to catholicism. i was still a baptized christian before, but i guess she holds a lot against me being catholic. maybe she was hoping that i would someday convert to judaism. we cannot deny our jewish roots.

there is the messianic Jew which is more closely tied to the evangelical protestant side and there are hebrew catholics also.

i do see the jewish people as my brothers and sisters and i wish that we could erase whatever mistrust there is between the two faiths.