Why is it so hard to be traditional?

[ProVobis]

I think JKirk makes some very valid points

Such as what? He uses the count of posts made or read on CA alone to show how much smarter he is; that’s all I got out of his post.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Such as what? He uses the count of posts made or read on CA alone to show how much smarter he is; that’s all I got out of his post.

Oh, let’s see…

his point about the constant denigration of the OF,
the fact that some “traditionalists” (especially in this forum, AND the ones I deal with in my diocese) feel that anyone who “prefers” the OF is somehow lacking in spirituality,and my personal favorite, the “spin” that some “traditionalists” put on statements, Church documents, etc. (for example Ockham’s “spin” on JKirks post, which I responded too)

A question was asked, JKirk replied, and then Ockham chose to pick only one part of it to be “offended” by, therefore placing the entire post by JKirk in a different context than what it was, which was simply his opinion regarding the OP’s question.

Oh, but I forget, no one in this sub-forum is allowed to have an opinion if it is not the "traditional (whatever that means!) opinion!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Such as what? He uses the count of posts made or read on CA alone to show how much smarter he is; that’s all I got out of his post.

Oh, ProVobis, I did not! I was pointing out that she might not be aware of all that has passed in the forums, that’s all, not having been here that long. The OP didn’t SEEM to think I was doing what you accuse me of! Sheer number of posts has nothing to do with intelligence!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This post is offensive.

Well, as I pointed out, the posts of many “Traditionalists” are offensive as well.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Me too!

I will say this, though Kirk. If I ever found myself in LVNV I certainly wouldn’t mind running into by chance. You’re a stand up guy, even though some of your responses send me to the door or window to check the colors outside.

Don’t come in the summer, it’s too hot.

 

[HCC]

I chose to become an educated, faithful Catholic when I was 16 and began attending TLM. There were many things I found difficult trying to live my faith, but a very holy priest I knew, gave me the best advice ever:

(In his gruff, but sweet manner)

“Tell the devil to go to hell! Keep your feet planted on God’s green Earth and keep walking toward Heaven!”

What he meant was, stop being tormented about what the right says, or the left says or how our pagan pop-culture tells you to live. ** LIVE YOUR FAITH SIMPLY!** Ignore what others tell you or when they try to discourage you–unite with our Lord and his Blessed Mother! Learn your faith-read, go to classes, meditate on it and LIVE IT, but simply. Don’t get caught up in useless arguments–just live your faith!

When I was 17-18 I prayed to find other young people who were also on fire with their faith and little-by-little I met other young people and we formed prayer groups and sports nights and get-togethers to support each other. Try to find good Catholic friends and do the same.

 

[Ockham]

Oh, let’s see…

(for example Ockham’s “spin” on JKirks post, which I responded too)

A question was asked, JKirk replied, and then Ockham chose to pick only one part of it to be “offended” by, therefore placing the entire post by JKirk in a different context than what it was, which was simply his opinion regarding the OP’s question.

Oh, but I forget, no one in this sub-forum is allowed to have an opinion if it is not the "traditional (whatever that means!) opinion!

What spin?

I quoted the first paragraph and then said the post was offensive. You are grasping at straws here.

Check out Patrick Madrid’s statement in the forum stickies. Basically if traditional Catholics bother you and you can’t post with charity its best to stay out of the traditional Catholic forum.

 

[Ockham]

Well, as I pointed out, the posts of many “Traditionalists” are offensive as well.

How’s that working for you? Wouldn’t the better approach be to try to avoid offending anyone?

 

[Momofmyangels]

Oh, ProVobis, I did not! I was pointing out that she might not be aware of all that has passed in the forums, that’s all, not having been here that long. The OP didn’t SEEM to think I was doing what you accuse me of! Sheer number of posts has nothing to do with intelligence!

Actually JKirk I took it to mean that since I don’t have thousands of posts, I couldn’t possibly understand and really didn’t have the right to ask. I realize I don’t have as many posts as most, but what is said on these forums is pretty much what is said out in the real world as we all live there don’t we?

 

[Craig_W]

As a rather new Catholic convert (2006), I am not totally familiar with all the nuances being discussed here. Our parish does not offer the Latin Mass as far as I know, but when I have watched the Latin Mass on EWTN, I must say that it is very, very inspiring to me, and I cannot precisely express why. It’s just something about the singing, the Latin language, and other beautiful visible, audible differences that appeal to me. If I had a choice at our parish, I would attend the Latin Mass.

Craig

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Actually JKirk I took it to mean that since I don’t have thousands of posts, I couldn’t possibly understand and really didn’t have the right to ask. I realize I don’t have as many posts as most, but what is said on these forums is pretty much what is said out in the real world as we all live there don’t we?

Let me hasten to assure you, I did not intend it in the way you have suggested NOR did I intend to give offense to you. I simply meant that this forum has been the staging ground for numerous attacks and occasions of denigration on the OF and that similar attacks in other fora on this site have NOT duplicated the same in regard to the EF and that you may not have been around to realize that (though I have no way of knowing).

I stand by what I said in my original post in this thread.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This post is offensive.

If you are offended, I invite you to read back through this particular forum’s threads, as far back as they go and you have the time and patience to endure. As stated, I stand by what I said.

 

[At_Trent]

labels ?

we all have them under our user names

Forum Master vs Trial Membership ?

In the name of the father son and holy ghost, whoever posts faster gets the most !

didn’t someone post on this thread pointing out another poster’s low # of posts to pooh pooh his/her opinion ?

 

[StTommyMore]

I believe the problem is broad brush-strokes, coming from both sides. On the one hand, those that prefer the OF do have a tendency to paint all traditionalists as radical, “The Last Good Pope Was Pius XII,” anti-Vatican 2 fringe. This is certainly not the case. The vast majority of Traditionalists simply love the ancient Traditions of the Church, and fear that knowledge of that Tradition is eroding. On the other hand, many Traditionalists seem to come across as assuming those that prefer the OF as tradition-hating, clown-mass celebrating, Dorito consecrating nutjobs. Again, this is not the case. Most of us (myslef included) simply have not had much exposure to the EF, and there are portions we find intimidating (I speak mostly for myself here). Much of this can be rectified by taking the time to actually read posts as well as thinking carefully about responses. Only then, can we truly recognize each other for what we all are (generally speaking): faithful, orthodox, Catholics.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Quite simply a “traditional” person is trying to worship God in the most sacred way possible, thus giving God the adoration and worship He is deserving of. This doesn’t just mean attending the TLM, it is a whole way of living and raising your children to keep God where He should be…at the forefront of our minds, in all we do and say, so that all is offered to Him. This is how it should be, right?

Then why are traditionalists as a whole mocked, looked down upon and labeled as “holier than thou”. Their ulterior motive is to give God the adoration and worship He is deserving of. Isn’t this commendable? Why is there such strife? (oh, I know there are a few who lack charity and come across as holier than thou, but for the most this is not so).

Look at all the threads right now, CITH, TLM vs NO, sign of peace…People try to receive Communion on the tongue while kneeling and they are ridiculed. They do so, not to prove a point, but rather to show respect for Our Lord whom they are receiving. It would be MUCH easier to receive in the hand while standing and avoid the ridicule, believe me, but because they truly wish to show respect, they kneel. (please don’t read into this that those that stand and receive in the hand are being disrespectful, my point is that those that kneel and receive on the tongue are ridiculed and those that don’t are not and why is this so?)

Try to say that you prefer the TLM and wish to only attend the TLM and again you are ridiculed. I have never felt at the NO Mass what I feel at the TLM. It never ceases to move me to tears of joy at being that close to God. Again, I am not saying that people cannot feel this at the NO, but when people say they only attend the NO, no one bats an eyelash, but say that you will only attend a TLM and again, the labeling begins. Look at the SSPX, the pope has respect for them and is trying to reconcile with them, but some Catholics don’t share his sentiment and continue to say derogatory statements about them. I don’t understand this.

Everyone has their own preference for worship, but it seems to me that the traditional way of worship is not accepted by most and I have a hard time understanding why. It certainly is not the easy path taken.

I have not read the other posts. I kind of feel the same way about the NO from traditionalists. As if somehow I am not as reverent or I’m only trying to do the bare minimum.

I am sorry that you have had those experiences. I have people kneel in front of me at daily Mass and receive on the tongue. I certainly don’t judge them…I think it’s beautiful if that is how they want to receive. That is their moment with the Lord and how they feel led. But you are right…I think across both we need to understand it doesn’t mean that the other way isn’t reverent or right.

 

[Momofmyangels]

I believe the problem is broad brush-strokes, coming from both sides. On the one hand, those that prefer the OF do have a tendency to paint all traditionalists as radical, “The Last Good Pope Was Pius XII,” anti-Vatican 2 fringe. This is certainly not the case. The vast majority of Traditionalists simply love the ancient Traditions of the Church, and fear that knowledge of that Tradition is eroding. On the other hand, many Traditionalists seem to come across as assuming those that prefer the OF as tradition-hating, clown-mass celebrating, Dorito consecrating nutjobs. Again, this is not the case. Most of us (myslef included) simply have not had much exposure to the EF, and there are portions we find intimidating (I speak mostly for myself here). Much of this can be rectified by taking the time to actually read posts as well as thinking carefully about responses. Only then, can we truly recognize each other for what we all are (generally speaking): faithful, orthodox, Catholics.

I agree.

I was raised traditionally and watched my parents be treated with such uncharity simply for kneeling for Communion, bringing us to confession more than once a month and having a love for the EF. These two would take us to as many TLM’s as they could, mostly many miles away just to avoid us witnessing the abuses at the NO that are so prevalent here. They never once said to us that the NO was invalid and continued to bring us to the OF when we were unable to travel. They were charitable, taught us to have great respect for priests, bishops and most of all the Pope. They were truly broken hearted when those “ancient traditions” were done away with and tried to find a way to keep some of the traditions that were so much a part of their lives, a part of our lives too. They did this quietly and peacefully and I have great respect for their perseverance even when most here ridiculed them. So, I guess my original question stems from this experience…the treatment my parents received when trying to hold on to tradition and being treated as you described above…radical etc., when they were far from radical.

 

[maurin]

Well, as I pointed out, the posts of many “Traditionalists” are offensive as well.

actually kirk, whether you meant to or not you didn’t refer at all to the utter disrespect and malicious tones of many a liberal poster, even right here on this very thread. I don’t mean any disrespect to you, but you are, or should I say, you seem to be quite biased at times. But, hey, me tto, so you’re not in too bad a company.

Don’t come in the summer, it’s too hot.

I’ll trade you your dry 110 for my very wet 99.

 

[maurin]

I think it is more necessary to take the Pope’s words to heart.

I believe I did floresco. Label are necessary–as distinctions. They are deadly when used as missiles.

I don’t believe the words of the Pope are being taken to heart if one thinks that a rose is not a rose is not a rose is not a rose, if you don’t mind the reference. To even think that a Parish with no obvious Crucifix in the Parish, with a Priest who uses the filled Baptismal font as a chair, allows women in their seventies wearin halter tops and pedal pushers to distribute Holy Communion, and preaches in a sermon about his ex male partner can be called anything but what he is, is just plain silly, ridiculou and unrealistic. And id your wondering, that was the Pastor of my home Parish of the last NO Parish I have ever stepped into. The one who told me that over his dead body would that Latin Mass ever be celebrated in"his" Church.

But me? I’m not bitter, but I often wonder what that vile taste is in my mouth. (does anyone know what that line is from? I’ve got a Baronius '62 Missal to the first correct response!)

 

[ElizabethPH]

I believe I did floresco. Label are necessary–as distinctions. They are deadly when used as missiles.

I don’t believe the words of the Pope are being taken to heart if one thinks that a rose is not a rose is not a rose is not a rose, if you don’t mind the reference. To even think that a Parish with no obvious Crucifix in the Parish, with a Priest who uses the filled Baptismal font as a chair, allows women in their seventies wearin halter tops and pedal pushers to distribute Holy Communion, and preaches in a sermon about his ex male partner can be called anything but what he is, is just plain silly, ridiculou and unrealistic. And id your wondering, that was the Pastor of my home Parish of the last NO Parish I have ever stepped into. The one who told me that over his dead body would that Latin Mass ever be celebrated in"his" Church.

But me? I’m not bitter, but I often wonder what that vile taste is in my mouth. (does anyone know what that line is from? I’ve got a Baronius '62 Missal to the first correct response!)

Hardly anyone that goes to Mass whatever form it is would agree that these sort of abuses are acceptable. If you find yourself in such a Catholic Church than I would suggest to you and anyone else to leave, brush the dirt from your feet and go somewhere else; its as simple as that.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I was raised traditionally and watched my parents be treated with such uncharity simply for kneeling for Communion, bringing us to confession more than once a month and having a love for the EF. These two would take us to as many TLM’s as they could, mostly many miles away just to avoid us witnessing the abuses at the NO that are so prevalent here. They never once said to us that the NO was invalid and continued to bring us to the OF when we were unable to travel. They were charitable, taught us to have great respect for priests, bishops and most of all the Pope. They were truly broken hearted when those “ancient traditions” were done away with and tried to find a way to keep some of the traditions that were so much a part of their lives, a part of our lives too. They did this quietly and peacefully and I have great respect for their perseverance even when most here ridiculed them. So, I guess my original question stems from this experience…the treatment my parents received when trying to hold on to tradition and being treated as you described above…radical etc., when they were far from radical.

I think it definetly works BOTH ways. I responded to my first post in the traditional forumn and I felt so attacked that I almost made the decision to never wander in here again. Now…how I am I supposed to learn the traditional point of view if I get attacked