Why is it so hard to be traditional?

[Momofmyangels]

I can agree with everything you said until you mentioned SSPX. A lot of people have a problem with them because they have neo-nazis and right wing extremists in their ranks and leadership. Look at bishop Williamson.

My point was, how the Pope views them and how many Catholics view them. The Pope is charitable, shows them respect and is trying to work towards reconciliation. What you speak of is not at all in the direction of reconciliation the Pope is trying to achieve.

 

[Garyjohn2]

It’s always hard to go against a culture that you are surrounded by.

 

[greenmoira]

To Momofmyangels, and all who are trying to live Godly lives: It is important that we realize that Satan is alive and well. He is the one who causes all the strife and dissension in the world. God allows it to prove our love for Him. When things and situations seem more than we can handle, that’s the time we need to remember to call on Our Lord Jesus Christ. He will help us, as He promised. Most of the time we just forget to ask. I am trying to instill in my grandchildren (ages 9-2) the need to “offer up to Jesus” all our problems. It is a simple act but it shows God that we are trying to bend our will and mind towards Him. It really does help! So let’s be strong-hearted men and women of God, listen to Him and forget about those that ridicule. Pray for them that God will give them the grace to come to Him. Keep up the good fight!

 

[Momofmyangels]

To Momofmyangels, and all who are trying to live Godly lives: It is important that we realize that Satan is alive and well. He is the one who causes all the strife and dissension in the world. God allows it to prove our love for Him. When things and situations seem more than we can handle, that’s the time we need to remember to call on Our Lord Jesus Christ. He will help us, as He promised. Most of the time we just forget to ask. I am trying to instill in my grandchildren (ages 9-2) the need to “offer up to Jesus” all our problems. It is a simple act but it shows God that we are trying to bend our will and mind towards Him. It really does help! So let’s be strong-hearted men and women of God, listen to Him and forget about those that ridicule. Pray for them that God will give them the grace to come to Him. Keep up the good fight!

This reminds me of my grandmother and it made me smile. Thank you!

 

[excelsus]

It’s always hard to go against a culture that you are surrounded by.

Reminds me of “et lux in tenebris lucet, et tenebræ eam non comprehenderunt.”

 

[ElizabethPH]

There is the Ordinary Form (not the NO) and the Extraordinary Form. We are so blessed to have the choice. Although I don’t where I live. I enjoy the more traditional Ordinary Form at my parish that includes Latin and Gregorian Chant. The traditional Latin Mass isn’t anywhere in my area. I cover I receive on the tongue; I don’t kneel though. And don’t have a problem with those that do. I’ve never experienced any chastisement for having a traditional lean, except for once someone mentioned not being able to understand Latin; which is the most common complaint I think. I do find an ‘attitude’ coming from those liberal types that are nomally Catholic anyway and are hardly living their Faith.

 

[rben20]

Now, there are issues when some try to claim that the Church’s Liturgy is somehow wrong, or incomplete, or lacking in grace, or disrespectful, or so terribly and always abused that it is always illicit, etc. that the detractors of the Church end up becoming protestants and schismatics. We all need to keep our focus upon the Bridegroom and not upon the linens and the flowers and the incense, and all the other external trappings such as others’ attires or postures or supposed intentions or states of grace.

Well there are abuses in the OF. Hate to tell you that. If the OF was like the one shown on EWTN or that of the Holy Father’s then I wouldn’t mind, but unfortunately I have to point to a celebrant because there is so much diversity in the quality of the OF. This is an issue regardless if you want to accept it or not. That is why there is a ‘reform of the reform’ and the Holy Father wants the EF along side the OF. The focus is God yes, but people seem to miss that nowadays and I blame much of that on the OF and its poor implementation and lack of strict rubrics.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Reminds me of “et lux in tenebris lucet, et tenebræ eam non comprehenderunt.”

For those who do not understand latin, this is part of the Last Gospel which says, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men: and the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

[Onegin]

My point was, how the Pope views them and how many Catholics view them. The Pope is charitable, shows them respect and is trying to work towards reconciliation. What you speak of is not at all in the direction of reconciliation the Pope is trying to achieve.

I agree. It is similar to someone who discounts the entire Catholic Church because of the paedophelia scandal with some priests involved. I heard of one left-wing Bishop who voted for a pro-abortion candidate and advised Catholics to do the same, but it doesn’t make me discount the whole Catholic Church.

Yes, there are going to be crazy people in any group, but it is no reason to discount the group because of this. As for Bishop Williamson, my understanding was that he was disputing the numbers in the Holocaust and not the event itself. In any event, without getting into the matter in detail, belief in the Holocaust (or that a specific number of lives were lost in it) is not an article of faith but a political opinion. The fact that it gets dragged in to theological discussion is silly.

 

[excelsus]

For those who do not understand latin, this is part of the Last Gospel which says, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men: and the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Yep. I saw a parallel because the darkness is like today’s “culture of death”, and light is like going against that. The light is surrounded by the darkness but it continues, perseveres, even conquers the darkness, and the darkness does not comprehend why the light does what it does.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Yep. I saw a parallel because the darkness is like today’s “culture of death”, and light is like going against that. The light is surrounded by the darkness but it continues, perseveres, even conquers the darkness, and the darkness does not comprehend why the light does what it does.

Good parallel and thank you for the quote. I love the latin in the Mass and never tire of hearing it.

 

[jfoges]

Doubting the Holocaust does not make one a neo-Nazi or a right wing extremist. That’s patently ridiculous, no matter if you levy that against a SSPX member/supporter or anyone else.

Personally, I think anyone who does not think doubting the Holocaust makes one a neo-nazi or right wing extremist, is himself a neo-nazi or a right wing extremist.

 

[crazzeto]

Personally, I think anyone who does not think doubting the Holocaust makes one a neo-nazi or right wing extremist, is himself a neo-nazi or a right wing extremist.

It may be that doubting the holocaust doesn’t make you a neo-nazi, but it does make you insanely misinformed and ignorant. There’s no denying it.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I agree, especially with the TLM and getting ridiculed. My own family does to me. They ask “why would you go to a mass that you can’t even understand what they are saying” and my grandma tried to convince me to stop altar serving and go back to the really modern parish near my house. My dad is the only one who understands me I guess.

When I hear the Argument “why would you go to a mass that you can’t even understand what they are saying” then its an opportunity to Educate.

First of all the LATIN is for GOD. When the Priest is offering Holy Mass to GOD in Latin - I imagine that GOD , being omnipotent , doesnt have an issue with comprehension. The Idea of Latin being a universal concept that a Catholic who travels to China then to Germany then to Spain then to Italy then to Britain then to Ireland and then back to the Us and went to Mass in Each Country would have a LOT HARDER TIME in the OF than if every Mass was in LATIN as it was in the 50’s. You could be anywhere in the world and understand Mass. Country and culture would not matter a bit.

And also - if the Parishioner wants to understand what the Priest is offering on his of her behalf in English - simply buy a St Joseph’s Daily Missal. It has Latin on the Left and English on the Right. Anyone over the age of 7 can follow along failrly simply. That argument is one of the poorest excuse of a theological argument I have ever heard and the epitome of ignorance. And I agree , I wish I had a nickel for every time I have heard it used too.

I mean really?

 

[floresco]

Personally, I think anyone who does not think doubting the Holocaust makes one a neo-nazi or right wing extremist, is himself a neo-nazi or a right wing extremist.

I’m guessing that you have not attended a seminar on how to make friends and influence people.

 

[Magnus467]

What confuses me is why people feel the need to label themselves as traditional Catholics. That is what causes the negative feelings. We’re all Catholic we don’t need to separate ourselves through useless labels.

 

[OraLabora]

I think the problem with any “ism”, and Traditionalism is no different, is that it can and does end up being an ideology, and that in itself ends up being a form of idolatry.

I generally dislike labels, but if a label we must have, I think the one each Catholic should strive for is orthodox (small “o”, as in “faithful” not capital “O” as in Orthodox Church).

Since the Holy Father says that the EF and OF are both valid forms of the same rite, then we should, in humility, respect him as it isn’t a mere opinion, and we should respect those who prefer one over the other.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Since the Holy Father says that the EF and OF are both valid forms of the same rite, then we should, in humility, respect him as it isn’t a mere opinion, and we should respect those who prefer one over the other.

Yes, this was the gist in my original post but the respect is not there, thus the reason for this thread. You can’t say that you prefer and wish to only attend the EF and be treated the same as if you say that you prefer and wish to only to attend the OF.

 

[floresco]

What confuses me is why people feel the need to label themselves as traditional Catholics. That is what causes the negative feelings. We’re all Catholic we don’t need to separate ourselves through useless labels.

I call myself a traditional Catholic because it saves time. Rather than give a lengthy description of my beliefs and practices, I can say this and it gives people a general idea of where I am coming from. For this purpose, it is useful.

 

[Magnus467]

I call myself a traditional Catholic because it saves time. Rather than give a lengthy description of my beliefs and practices, I can say this and it gives people a general idea of where I am coming from. For this purpose, it is useful.

If you follow all that is allowed and prescribed by the Church there should be no need to label. (I am sure you do ) Making labels just seeks to separate. I think it may be ok to say you are traditional, but to say you are a Traditional Roman Catholic is wrong.