Why is it so important?

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NonDenom

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Hi All
Iv’e been a part of this forum for about 7 months. I have learned some things about Catholicism that I didn’t know before and to be honest I have grown a greater appreciation for the faith.
Marien devotion is a real problem for Protestants, because they see it as worshipping. Anyway here is my question,

Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
In Him and Only Him
 
I don’t think you cross the line for not believing that Mary is sinless.

I think you cross the line if you tell everyone that the Catholic Church is wrong in this teaching.

What I do suggest is that you do a little more research on this subject. I find our Marian Doctrines beautiful, and they never fail to draw me closer to God! I’ll be happy to send you some really good articles if you PM me.

Notworthy
 
I think it depends on the level of your disbelief. A priest once told me a thousand doubts aren’t the same as a disbelief.

If you feel that there is no way that those doctrines are possible then there is a question about whether you should be/become Catholic. But if you accept that it is possible Mary fits into all the mentioned issues but your not sure then there is nothing to prevent you from becoming Catholic.

As to whether disbelieving those things will hurt your salvation, only God knows since we do believe that it is possible to be saved outside of being a member of the Church on Earth.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi All
Iv’e been a part of this forum for about 7 months. I have learned some things about Catholicism that I didn’t know before and to be honest I have grown a greater appreciation for the faith.
Marien devotion is a real problem for Protestants, because they see it as worshipping. Anyway here is my question,

Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
In Him and Only Him
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I think NotWorthy hits it. If you believe that Christ established a Church with teaching authority, you could not reject that legitimate teaching authority without rejecting the Source of it.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi All
Iv’e been a part of this forum for about 7 months. I have learned some things about Catholicism that I didn’t know before and to be honest I have grown a greater appreciation for the faith.
Marien devotion is a real problem for Protestants, because they see it as worshipping. Anyway here is my question,

Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
In Him and Only Him
Click to expand...
Dear Nondenom:
As Catholics, we believe that Christ is Truth and the Church He built is the protector of that Truth. Rejecting Her teachings means rejecting Truth. However, struggling with Her teachings does not equate itself with obstinate rejection.

I will pray for you.
Fiat
 
as far as I know, believing in these things is not the key to salvation. faith in christ and following His commandments is what’s needed to obtain salvation.
that being said, if you are catholic, the churches teachings on Mary ARE an article of faith and you must believe them inorder to be in full communion with His church.

As a Catholic, you have to be in submission to the church because it was established by Christ. if you choose to say, “well, I don’t aggree with this, but I can still be a good catholic” that is simply not so. it doesn’t matter what it is. if you call yourself Catholic, you are saying that you believe that Christ gave the keys to peter and peter passed them down through the successive popes.

for me, I have a little trouble with the doctren of her being without sin. however, I trust in the wisdom of my church and so accept this on faith because I trust the church and I believe in what Jesus said about it. that the gates of hell would not prevail against her.

if you are protestant, I cannot answer your question really. my husband is portestant and he doesn’t believe some of these things either. but he does believe that Mary was special and he conceades to the fact that she could have been assumed into heaven. does his lack of belief in these things affect his relationship with Christ? I believe they do. does that mean he’s going to hell? I certainly hope not. He loves Jesus just as much as I do and is trying to obay him. he doesn’t have the blessing of a long established church to follow…yet (I"m hopeing he’ll become catholic some day)

anyway, I got off on a side bar there. but my point is that if you are Catholic, you need to do some sole searching and try and accept some things on faith if you cannot understand them intelectually. it’s about trust. if you cannot, but still stay in the church, you might get a spanking from mary in purgatory, but I don’t think the church teaches that you are damned to hell.
 
On the other hand, if you are seriously looking at Catholicism even though you have some areas of difficulty, esp. as regards Mary, pray that God will send enlighten you.

It’s the old story, “O God - if there is a God - save my soul - if I have a soul.”

When I had a difficulty in understanding Church teaching on contraception I figured that it probably had valid reasons for the teaching, I just needed to get more information.

Your best source of information would probably be some of the former Protestant ministers like Scott Hahn who, before they converted, had a real problem with Church teaching on Mary. Why re-invent the wheel?
 
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NonDenom:
Hi All
Iv’e been a part of this forum for about 7 months. I have learned some things about Catholicism that I didn’t know before and to be honest I have grown a greater appreciation for the faith.
Marien devotion is a real problem for Protestants, because they see it as worshipping. Anyway here is my question,

Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
In Him and Only Him
Click to expand...
The church does not and will not judge your soul for salvation Jesus does. That being said Our God is a merciful God and I’m sure you know this. Will you go to hell for not believing, I doubt it IMHO. I don’t think this is the real issue however!

The real issue is that you will not be in full communion with the Church, even this is not neccessarily a recipe for disaster. The problem comes when you are given the truth, shown the truth, see the truth for what it is, “The Truth”. Then turn away from the truth deliberately. This is a much more serious issue!

I am truly happy to read that you have come to veiw the Catholic Church in a much more compassionate and generous light! I truly believe it is the Church that Christ himself established. I will pray that God reveals all you need to follow him where he leads you!

Peace!
 
When someone converts to the Catholic Church they are asked to believe and accept all that the Catholic Church teaches. That being said there is no requirement that a Catholic say the rosary or have a devotion to Mary as the Mother of God. Most of us even cradle Catholics do not know all that the Catholic Church teaches, but accept by an act of will that whatever she teaches we will believe and accept. Some things will never come up in a lifetime, and other things have no effect on how an individual might live out his Christian life. Probably the basic things that do affect how one lives are the seven sacraments, including the real presence in the Eucharist, the Mass, the Bible, the need for Prayer, the Moral Teachings based on the Ten Commandments and Natural Law, as well as about a half dozen Church disciplines like attending Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, receiving Communion and going to confession at least once per year, supporting your Church with time, talent, and treasure, and fasting and abstaining on the days appointed as well as acceptance of the Popes right to represent our true head, Jesus. There are Dogmas and Doctrines that many people do not totally understand or have difficulty in total unquestioning belief but by and large most of them are part of the creed that even most protestant churches subscribe to. Believing and accepting does not imply total understanding or lack of doubts and having questions. It is actually more a question of obedience to the authority of the Church in its right to teach than it is of lock step, no-questions asked belief.
 
I too had a real problem with Marian teachings as I was investigating the Catholic Church (from a Pentecostal background). My difficulty, and I think yours too, if you don’t mind my presumption, is one of having a false dichotomy between honoring Mary and worshiping Jesus. I was taught in my Pentecostal church, and believed, that holding Mary in as high regard as Catholics do, even if they don’t worship her, was taking glory away from Christ. I learned that just the opposite is true when I looked into it, and after practicing Marian devotion as approved by the Church. Mary leads all who go to her to Christ, her Son. It is all she desires to do, just as any good Christian, be they lay or ordained would want to do.

All the teachings about Mary are only there to support and give witness to the teachings about Christ, her Son. Mary is not honored for her sake alone and the doctrines regarding her were not looked into in order to merely exalt her. Rather, they were hammered out in order to settle doctrinal questions about the nature of Christ or to confirm teachings Christ gave us concerning the resurrection of the dead and the communion of saints.

We do not need to withhold our love from Mary any more than we need to withhold our love from our own mothers and other loved ones. We are to love God first and all others, Mary included, second. That is her true place in the Church and in the lives of Catholics.
 
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Fiat:
Dear Nondenom:
As Catholics, we believe that Christ is Truth and the Church He built is the protector of that Truth. Rejecting Her teachings means rejecting Truth. However, struggling with Her teachings does not equate itself with obstinate rejection.

I will pray for you.
Fiat
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That is the most lucid and complete explanation that I have ever seen. Kudos!
 
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NonDenom:
Hi All
Iv’e been a part of this forum for about 7 months. I have learned some things about Catholicism that I didn’t know before and to be honest I have grown a greater appreciation for the faith.
Marien devotion is a real problem for Protestants, because they see it as worshipping. Anyway here is my question,

Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
In Him and Only Him
Click to expand...
Well my brother. To be both an informed Catholic and to willfully disbelieve in Catholic dogma is a mortal sin, for the scriptures call the Church, the pillar and foundation of truth. But to struggle with doubt is Okiedokie. However, I think that you should read Scott Hahn’s book, “Hail Holy Queen”. It gives a great explanation and defense of Marian dogmas.
 
Here’s the way I look at it. If I were an army general in a battle, I’d use my best weapons in order to destroy my enemy. I may be able to win the battle if I don’t use my artillery, for example, but the struggle would be more difficult.

Mary and the Communion of Saints are my artillery. The Eucharist, the Mass, and other Sacraments are valuable weapons as well. And the battle is engaged with the devil. I plan on using my artillery as well as all my weapons!!!

Notworthy
 
Non-Denom:

You know, there’s so much in Catholic Theology that you can explore at this time…if Mother Mary is too tremendous at this time to grapple with, don’t worry about it too much, you can always revisit her. She is a person and not just a bunch of theological ideas that is interwoven in Catholic doctrine. She has her way of getting to know you and revealing herself to you…but she wouldn’t ever want to get in the way of you and her son because she is all about leading us to him “Do whatever He tells you.”

Glad that you have allowed us to clarify what we believe. I often think of Catholic Doctrine as a gigantic universal clock with millions of cogs that are interconnected…so if a small cog turns, the whole thing reacts…all of what you’ve been exposed to by the apologists here are very much interconnected and I hope that you dig deeper and perhaps someday see the splendor and the utter beauty of the Bride of Christ.

Keep posting!

in XT.
 
The reason the Marian doctirnes are so important is not because they exault Mary but because explain Jesus.

Everything in the Marian doctrines points to Jesus and His Incarantion as well as His glory to the Father. Mary was his ultimate creation and all that happened to her and through her is because of and for the glory of God alone.

All the things that she “does” she does because God allows it to be done. God saw fit to bring His only Son into this world through a woman - His creation and He deemed her to be sinless. He fortold to us her place in salvation history in Genesis 3:15. He allowed her to be crowned Queen of Heaven as a “prelude”, so to speak, of our awaited resurrection.

So, yes, I would say that believing in the Marian doctrines is important to your salvation because it is through Mary that you will encounter Jesus and “understand” Jesus (as much as our feeble brains can). Don’t get me wrong, she is not the only way to encounter Jesus but she makes the journey a little easier. Afterall, she gives us a Mother’s comfort and love and brings us gently towards Him - “Do whatever He says.”

Scott Hahn’s book referenced above is an excellent way to start with these doctrines. He explains Catholic beliefs by way of the protestant perspective.
 
The real question should be “What is true?” I run into this attitude all the time that tries to find the least that must be believed or done in order to be saved. As each generation shaves off a layer of what’s necessary, eventually what’s left will be “nothing.” In fact, we already see that among a growing number of sects.

Every Christian should be a lover of the truth, wherever it is. They should divide it from error. Seen in this light, Mary isn’t more important because of some utilitarian reason–her importance simply comes from the fact that Marian doctrines are true.

Christians who try to find things “more true than others” inevitably end up mired in relativism. I see it every day.
 
This is a very difficult subject for many trying to look at Catholics objectively.

I cringed every time I even heard the name Mary when I was investigating the Catholic Church. Catholics are not supposed to worship anyone other than God, and I sincerely had the knee-jerk reaction in seeing any love for Mary as wrong, since it could be mis-understood as worship.(sorry for the long sentence)
This takes a long time to understand and I will pray for you because Marian devotion and beliefs are very difficult especially for someone from a non-denominational background.

It is not wrong to doubt as that shows honesty in your thinking. Now not believing for convenience, or lack of humility is wrong and should be considered. I didn’t want to believe in the Catholic Church for a while since it meant I had to change my behavior. (or even God at one time)
Many of us struggle with things like this, now by the Grace of God I have come to a better understanding and my doubts have been answered and cleared up, but many things take time. Sometimes it does take a lot of study to mentally clear things up too, for those of us who need everything with an explanation.

God Bless
Scylla
 
My suggestion is read the apolstolic tradition, the bible for yourself and determine what is neccessary for salvation.

I Cor 15:3-5
 
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NonDenom:
Are the beliefs that the Catholic church has about Mary salvation issues?
In other words, If I don’t believe that Mary was sinnless or that she was assumed to Heaven or that she was ever virgin or that she is the mother of God, will this cost me my salvation?
If I don’t believe these things, am I bound for hell?
Click to expand...
There seems to be a lot of hedging going on, so let me be quite direct.

Catholics are required to believe what God has Revealed and what the Church has defined to be divinely revealed. If a baptized person deliberately denies or doubts a dogma properly so-called, he is guilty of the sin of heresy, and is automatically subject to the punishment of excommunication.

The Church tells us which things these are by labeling them as “dogma”. They are objective truth, immutable forever, and of divine origin. There are many teachings and doctrines and pious beliefs that require our assent, but only dogmas require “divine faith”.

By dogma in the strict sense is understood a truth immediately (formally) revealed by God which has been proposed by the Teaching Authority of the Church to be believed as such.
(Ott, p. 4)

The Church “proposes” them for our belief, because believing and obeying God is something we have to do ourselves.

Dogma comes in two ways
  1. either explicitly or implicitly, from Holy Scripture or Holy Tradition
  2. either extraordinary through a solemn decision by a Pope or a General Council, or ordinarily through the Magisterium
Concerning Mary, there are four dogmas: Mother of God, Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity (before, during, and after), and Assumption into Heaven. They are listed here (from Ott, pp. 196-216):
  • Mary is truly the Mother of God (De fide)
  • Mary was conceived without the stain of Original Sin (De fide)
  • Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost without the cooperation of man (De fide)
    Mary bore her Son without any violation of her virginal integrity (De fide)
    Also after the Birth of Jesus Mary remained a Virgin (De fide)
  • Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven (De fide)
Catholics are expected to believe what the Church is proposing about these truths. One need not understand them fully to believe, but through zeal, reverence, and moderation, we may grow in our faith.

(Information was gleaned from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott)

hurst
 
Hi Nondenom,

Just wanted to share a thought here and then I’m signing off for the evening.

If Mary was good enough for God to use to come to us,
then Mary is good enough for us to use to come to God.

I can’t help but love her…we know Jesus did
Mary is THE example of how to love God…isn’t that what we desire and strive for in our Christian lives.
 
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