Why is it that I seem to be the only one doing this...?

[Kielbasi]

palmas85:

If statistics are correct, a majority of Catholics in the United States already believe the Eucharist is just a symbol. And why would you need to show respect, such as kneeling or genuflecting to a piece of bread?

Disbelief isn’t new to this age, you know. The difference is that disbelievers in this age don’t realize that they don’t hold orthodox, copasetic views in line with the church.

In an earlier epoch, people might not have believed. but they still knew what the church’s doctrine was on the matter.

By the way, it would definitely be idolatry if someone worshipped a piece of bread, and it would be a sin if they worshipped what they thought was a piece of bread(attempted idolatry?)

 

[netmilsmom]

palmas85:

That was my old Happy Charismatic parish.
I sat with a table full of mothers for my daughter’s “Reconcilliation” meeting who specifically stated that they did not believe. I told them that this was the core of Catholic teachings. They dismissed me with a wave of a hand.
I was part of the Education Committee. When I brought it up to the DRE, she said, oh I know.
When I said that we needed to educate the parents, she also dismissed me. When I told her that letting these people continue to believe this is on our Immortal souls being the Education Committee. She got downright hostile.
I left. Thank the Lord for my new Deep Catholic Parish! God Bless Father Ben!

 

[Livnlove55]

palmas85:

I once heard a well known anti-Catholic speaker remark that if Catholics “really believed” in the true presence, if they “actually believed” that the Lord Jesus Christ was in fact present among them, why didn’t they get on their knees and crawl to the Altar? It seemed to me to be a good probing question. Why would anyone, anywhere, who truly believed he was in the presence of God, not want to kneel or even prostrate himself, if not in adoration, at least as a form of the utmost respect? And why would anyone think a simple nod of the head was sufficient respect shown to God? It is really beyond my comprehension.

Oh, my… Having been Catholic for just over four months now, sometimes the things I read in these forums really make me realize how far I still have to go before I think like a “real” Catholic.

I come from an evangelical Protestant background which placed a great deal of emphasis on a “personal relationship” with Jesus. There was little sense of the sacred in our worship and even less reverence. Easy to understand since there was nothing like the Real Presence in our churches to reverence. We worshipped and praised Jesus endlessly but His Absolute Holiness was not the focus of our worship. It was more gratitude for His Love and the salvation He had brought to us.

I believe in the Real Presence with all my heart, soul and mind and I continue to be awestruck at every Mass I attend when the words of consecration are spoken. Actually, just stepping inside my church fills me with joy because I know **He **is there, even before Mass, ever-present in the Tabernacle.

And yet… I feel no need to prostrate myself or crawl before that Presence. I still think of Jesus more as a an intimate friend who dined with sinners and allowed John to recline on His breast. When I go up to receive Communion, I bow deeply and whisper “I love You, Jesus.” And I truly believe He knows I mean it and that my words of love mean as much, or more, to Him as genuflection or prostration would mean.

Maybe, after I’ve been a Catholic longer, I’ll feel differently. But right now that’s how it looks to me.
In His love,
Rhonda

 

[MrS]

I have a feeling that at least some posters on this thread may now become more inclined to attend a TLM … and see what levels of reverence used to be, … what levels of reverence are still “allowed” … and what levels of reverence will return under Benedict XVI ! (God willing)

 

[davy39]

Mysty101:

This is a terrible attitude. As another poster pointed out, it is Jesus we are respecting. I personally do not think either posture is more respectful, but obviously you do. How sad that you feel Jesus deserves less respect, if He does not come to you in the manner you prefer.

I agree. I have been a EMHC for many years, and have been proad and humble to be one, and I take offense that Jesus is somewhat less if I distribute, that a priest or deacon. I you really believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, than it shouldn’t make any difference. But let’s not start the old and tired argument whether there should be EMHC’s or not.

 

[palmas85]

Actually, Rhonda there is nothing at all wrong with your attitude, in how you approach God and how you worship Him. And yes, after all these years I still feel that overpowering sense of awe and love upon entering the Church. Just walking through the doors, I too know that he is there, waiting for me You love Jesus and you came home to the Church. How I wish that more would also. Maybe the prayers that we have said for years for the conversion of souls is being answered. Yes Rhonda, the Church used to teach us to pray for the conversion of the Jews, the Muslims, the Protestants and all others who had either never been in the Church or had fallen away. I don’t know that they still want us to do that now since they say that all religions are valid in their own way.

I guess the reason I feel the way I do is that I was taught in the old way and the old tradition before Vatican II. Back home, the reforms under Vatican II really didn’t take effect until well in the late 1970’s, as many of the faithful and the Clergy would not accept the reforms and quite frankly thought them to be heretical and sacriligeous. I don’t go that far, and accept the changes as the price we have to pay for living in a world that exalts man over God or at least tries to bring God down to mans level.

I think that what sets most of what would be considered as Traditionals and Ultra Conservatives apart from more main stream Catholics in that we feel humble, very humble in the presence of God We bow our heads at the mere mention of His Holy Name. For us the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the assembly of the faithful as some believe today… We believe that the Sacrament of Holy Orders actually means something, and that the Religious have duties and responsiblilities that we in the laity don’t have. For that reason, we feel it proper to receive Holy Communion only from those who have received that Sacrament. We believe that one must be in as close a state of grace as possible prior to receiving Holy Communion and most of us confess prior to receiving. Usually in private, alone with the priest, in a confessional if available, behind a screen if not. No reconciliation circles or face to face talks. The Holy Mass is very quiet most of the time, mostly prayers, chanting and of course Holy Communion… No hand holding, no hand clapping no liturgical dancing, no laity in the Sanctuary, usually a Rosary is said before or after Holy Mass. There are more and longer prayers, including some after the Holy Mass is declared over.Most women, although not all cover their heads in Church. The Holy Mass is said mostly in Latin, although the Gospel and Homily are done in the vernacular. The Missals do have translations of everything however, and are not difficult to follow after you learn the sequence of the Mass.

As far as kneeling or prostrating in the presence of God, as I said for me, it seems natural. Jesus Christ is not my buddy, not my homeboy or my bro. He is the Saviour of the world. He is of one nature with God the Father Almighty the Creator of Heaven and earth and the Holy Ghost. He gave up his mortal life so that I, a poor helpless sinner could be set free from the fires of eternal damnation. I think he deserves my respect. More respect than I could ever possibly give him.

Rhonda, I am so glad that you came home to the Church, and you will be in my prayers. May God bless and keep you forever.

MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US

 

[otm]

fix:

Who interprets the norms? Does the dicastery in Rome not have the authority to interpet the GIRM?

A norm which is clear on its face does not need interpreting.

the question might be better phrased, does the dicastery have the authority to change the norm or modify the norm by a letter response. The answer would be “no”.

Those who wish to kneel for Communion have taken the statment that one cannot be refused Communion for kneeling (which is a canonical penalty) to mean that the norm was re-written.

Those who wish to genuflect, when the norm is clear about the bow of the head, are choosing to “introduce an action” outside the norm. That is unlike the issue of standing, sitting, or kneeling after returning from Communion, which was written in a way that was not clear. That is why a dubium was sent to Rome, to which Rome responded that they did not intend that it be rigidly applied.

 

[otm]

Where does the Bible command we receive Holy Communion under both species?

---

If this is so, then the Church was in error when it limited Holy Communion to be received by the laity only under the form of bread. Are you saying the Church taught error?

If youy want a command, Christ said “Take and eat” and then said “Take and drink”. Furthermore, the early Church received under both species, as is clear from Paul.

You are confusing error in doctrine with error in practice, or discipline. No one has accused the Chruch of teaching error - which is how you would say they were making an error in doctrine, because doctrine is what is taught.

And no one is particualarly saying that the Church made an error in practice, or discipline, as they have the authority to change discipline as it is seen important or necessary. and just as discipline can be changed, it can be changed back again, or shnged to a third option.

 

[otm]

fix:

The pope and those he delegates in his name such as the dicastery in charge.

No, that is not entirely true, as it would result in a dicastery having the authority by letter to change anything they chose “because I said so”. The law works in a little more regulated and consistent fashion than that.

 

[fix]

otm:

A norm which is clear on its face does not need interpreting.

Your opinion.

the question might be better phrased, does the dicastery have the authority to change the norm or modify the norm by a letter response. The answer would be “no”.

The dicastery has the authority to interpret it. Please provide a reference that says the differently.

Those who wish to kneel for Communion have taken the statment that one cannot be refused Communion for kneeling (which is a canonical penalty) to mean that the norm was re-written.

That is untrue. The dicastery said the norm was authorized with the understanding those who wanted to kneel would still be allowed to kneel.

Those who wish to genuflect, when the norm is clear about the bow of the head, are choosing to “introduce an action” outside the norm. That is unlike the issue of standing, sitting, or kneeling after returning from Communion, which was written in a way that was not clear. That is why a dubium was sent to Rome, to which Rome responded that they did not intend that it be rigidly applied.

Again, that does not seem to be accurate. The norm may be a bow of the head, but that does not exclude one from genuflecting.

 

[fix]

otm:

No, that is not entirely true, as it would result in a dicastery having the authority by letter to change anything they chose “because I said so”. The law works in a little more regulated and consistent fashion than that.

Please show us where the dicastery has no authority to interpret the norms?

 

[QDude]

palmas85:

I remember from history, one of Martin Luthers main problems was accepting that the Eucharist was actually the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In fact he railed against it, and preached that the Eucharist was nothing more than a “symbol” of Jesus. Just a symbol. That is actually what the Protestant sects that have Eucharistic assemblies believe. They are receiving a symbol" of Jesus Christ, nothing more than a symbol.

Just as an FYI, my wife’s former Lutheran (Missouri Synod) parish still kneels at an alter rail to receive the “body and blood”. They do believe in the real presence just not in transubstatiation. Since the irony is so obvious, I will leave it at that… :>

 

[MJE]

I have had a re-occuring dream for years that I am in church and I genuflect and am unable to stand up. I am weighted down and everyone has to go around me and the Mass goes on but I am still on the floor. I bow before receiving our Lord! But genuflect entering/leaving pew because I have the pew to grab, if necessary.

 

[palmas85]

QDude:

Just as an FYI, my wife’s former Lutheran (Missouri Synod) parish still kneels at an alter rail to receive the “body and blood”. They do believe in the real presence just not in transubstatiation. Since the irony is so obvious, I will leave it at that… :>

Actually one of my Lutheran co-workers explained it like this. The host becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ AFTER you receive, not before. Prior to actually entering your body, it is just a piece of bread, a symbol. It is through your faith, not the consecration, that the miracle is accomplished. This ties in with Luthers dismissal of the Prietshood as unnecessary.

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

The host becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ AFTER you receive, not before.

Did Jesus said " Take this all of you and eat it this will become my body once you recieve this and you have faith":banghead: LOLZ

 

[InnocentIII]

palmas85:

Actually one of my Lutheran co-workers explained it like this. The host becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ AFTER you receive, not before. Prior to actually entering your body, it is just a piece of bread, a symbol. It is through your faith, not the consecration, that the miracle is accomplished. This ties in with Luthers dismissal of the Prietshood as unnecessary.

Hence “consubstantiation” … the body of the Lord is present with the bread and wine at communion and reverts to bread and wine after the communion. I once asked a Lutheran friend what happened with the leftover consecrated sacrament and he said the pastor simply disposed of it as it was no longer Christ’s body.

 

[GodBlessJoanie]

legeorge:

I’m pretty sure someone will pound me with a barrage of liturgical norms and GIRM and all that fancy book-learnin’ stuff but this was an experience I had:
A couple of years ago, I was at a large celebration of the Mass for Divine Mercy Sunday at a local Shrine. For some reason, I was particularly moved during the Mass and was uncontrollably weeping all the way through the Eucharistic Prayer (I tried so hard not to be noticed!). On my way up to Communion, while the person directly in front of me was receiving Communion, I felt a tremendous force on my shoulders and had to go down on one knee. I got a strong feeling that I should always do this before receiving the Eucharist. Since then, I have always bowed my head and dropped to one knee before standing to receive. I almost always receive on the tongue. If, however, I happen to get an EMHC gravitate to my line, I will receive in the hand (only if I am not holding a child, which is a great way to avoid receiving in the hand BTW!). However, I only have to do this about once or twice a year. I try to avoid that situation because the last time it happened, the EMHC plopped the host into my hand like a necco wafer and I felt so offended by his nonchalance, that I practically cried for the rest of Mass. Usually I don’t even have to think about it, as 75% of the time we go to Mass at the Shrine, which is Maronite, and so everyone receives on the tongue since the Maronite Rite practices intinction, and the Priest is the only one to distribute Communion. Praise Be To God! (Sorry if I am offending anyone, but I’m not a really big fan of EMHC as you can probably tell.)
Take this as you will. It is only the experience of one lowly person trying to determine God’s will. This is what works for me and I hope it is pleasing to the Lord.

It’s all about reverence for the Eucharist. The Church has always guided us to be MORE reverent, but in recent times we have difted away. The Apostle Paul explained the women should also cover their heads in Church (1Cor. 11:13 and 1Cor. 11: 4-5). St. Paul’s words do not imply that the Church is closed to women who have no head covering immediately available, but traditionally women have always covered their heads ------

It’s all about respect, reverence and love for the Lord and the Eucharist - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity and let’s not forget Mary!

Blessings,
Joanie

 

[jayelen]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

The part of the quote that I highlighted was what I was trying to convey. I kneel for communion and have never been counceled. Until my Priest or my Bishop tells me otherwise, I am allowed.

To be honest with you, I am not comfortable receiving standing and in the hand. I would rather go for a Spiritual Communion in such circumstances or wait for a later Holy Mass at my own church, if I am attending an event in a different one in the morning.
This way, the norm for that church is upheld, but I am not putting myself (or my children) into an uncomfortable situation.

My seven year old literally gags when receiving bread only.

Let’s remember that we are bound to obey the bishops in doctrinal matters when they teach in union with the Pope what the church always has taught. A bishop cannot make a sin out of something that is not a sin. For example, kneeling to receive Holy Communion never was a sin, is not a sin now, and cannot be re-defined to be sinful. The same goes for kneeling after receiving. A bishop in a diocese cannot create his own vision of how Mass and Holy Communion should be celebrated, insist that everyone conform, then question the motives of those who would rather observe a valid tradition. This is what has happened in certain dioceses. Sadly, there are those with so little respect and common sense that they would do just about anything during Mass if a misguided priest or bishop told them to do so.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Mysty101:

This is a terrible attitude. As another poster pointed out, it is Jesus we are respecting. I personally do not think either posture is more respectful, but obviously you do. How sad that you feel Jesus deserves less respect, if He does not come to you in the manner you prefer.

I guess you might not like what I do, then. I only receive Communion from the priest. I never enter the line for EMHC, because I don’t think any of us are worthy to touch the Sacred Host with our hands. That includes EMHC. I wish the Church would dispense with them.