Why is it that "Western" relgions tend to be thiestic and while "Eastern" religions not so much?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sidetrack
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Christianity is an Eastern Religion, founded by an Asian Jew named Jesus.👍
Yes I get that BUT in it’s 2000 year history for more then a millenium of that it developed in Europe.Once we resolve that geographical aspect the fact that it developed in Europe still stand.Okay some of you are so into calling it an Eastern religion let me just rephrase the question as “why is it that that European branch of an Eastern religion called Christianity tends to be thiestic and while other Eastern religions not so much?”.There’s still a question to answer either way which I said before about having a monotheistic belief system develop mainly in Europe becoming more about orthodoxy as a result.“Is it b/c the Romans used it to reinforce their empire and thereby adherence and loyalty to their emperors?.I mean in ancient China they could have done something similar with Buddhism,Confucianism and Taoism to reinforce their empire (I dont know if they did) but even centuries after it was introduced in China those belief systems are still about orthopraxy over orthodoxy.Is there some sociological, anthropological or cultural component that could answer why is it that since Christianity was developed in Europe, it ended up emphasizing orthodoxy over orthopraxy during its development ?”.
 
Thank you,espeically Xuan for being closer then some to answering my question.However what still puzzles me is what is it about having a monotheistic belief system develop mainly in *Europe * makes it become more about orthodoxy as a result.Is it b/c the Romans used it to reinforce their empire and thereby adherence and loyalty to their emperors?.I mean in ancient China they could have done something similar with Buddhism,Confucianism and Taoism to reinforce their empire (I dont know if they did) but even centuries after it was introduced in China those belief systems are still about orthopraxy over orthodoxy.Is there some sociological,anthropological or cultural component that could answer why is it that since Christianity was developed in Europe, it ended up emphasizing orthodoxy over orthopraxy during its development ?.Thanks everyone for their time.
Hi sidetrack,

I think one of the reasons for the emphasis on orthodoxy in Christianity is its exclusivity. Whether or not Christ intended for it to be developed this way can be argued, but the fact is that it was. And I think the influence of the Roman Empire played a big role in its development this way. You know how Rome was (iron fist).

Jews don’t believe one has to be Jewish to get to Heaven, and Hindus don’t believe one has to be Hindu. And adherents of other eastern philosophies/religions don’t believe one has to be a member of that specific philosophy/religion to attain enlightenment. It’s all about practice (orthopraxy). And different philosophies can be mixed and matched in a constructive manner to help a person to live a virtuous life. But Christians generally believe one HAS to be Christian to be saved, and that requires strict adherence to certain beliefs (orthodoxy). On this forum alone you’ve probably seen all kinds of Christians railing against synchretism.

Since eastern philosophies are so compatible with each other that they can be mixed and matched, it would probably be pretty difficult for an empire to demand that its citizens adhere to one specific philosophy, to the exclusion of others.

I don’t know if this answers your question. If it doesn’t, feel free to ask for more.

Xuan
 
Disregard my above post: I ran out of time to edit it, and left out a chronology, and mixed up a few.

I don’t think that any actual religion (that is, a system with a basis in either history, theology, or philosophy, in a way that it looks to the metaphysical or greater order, and doesn’t merely attempt to appease the forces of nature or imaginary spirits) was ever founded in the West as we know of it today. The most “Western” of all religions were founded in, and developed in, the Middle East, nothing further west than Asia Minor or the Levant.

(In rough chronological order, from the founding of the earliest form)
  • Vedic: India (Iron age)
  • Judaism*: Levant and Egypt (Iron age, 15th-11th century BC)
  • Hinduism: India (direct descendant of Vedic religion) (9th-8th century BC)
  • Jainism: India (9th-6th century BC)
  • Zoroastrianism: Persia (Iran and Syria) (6th century BC)
  • Confucianism: China (6th century BC)
  • Buddhism: India (5th century BC)
  • Daoism: China (2nd century BC)
  • Gnosticism: Egypt and the Middle East (2nd-1st century BC)
  • Christianity: Levant, Asia Minor and Greece (1st century AD)
  • Manichaeism: Persia (3rd century AD)
  • Islam: Arabia, Egypt and Persia. (7th century AD)
  • Sikhism: India (15th century AD)
*Judaism in a primitive form likely began to exist historically around the 11th-10th century BC (although, it may be earlier, as the 15th century traditional date gives, as there can be no evidence of Moses’ wandering archaeologically) with the modern form taking shape in the 5th century BC, and the currently-practiced form of Rabbinic Judaism being founded no earlier than the late 2nd century AD, although based on ancient traditions. Judaism thus can be divided in to four major periods, of which the religion changed significantly throughout, with the advent of prophets and building and destruction of temples:

Earlier: captivity of the sons of Israel.
  • Moses’ Age (Exodus, earliest Judaic revelation in the Decalogue): 15th-11th century BC
  • Solomonic/First Temple Age: 11th-6th century BC
  • Second Temple Age: 6th century BC-1st century AD
  • Modern Rabbinic Age: 2nd-3rd century AD
I date the beginning of the earliest form of Judaism, as I date the beginning of the earliest form of every other religion, or else the list would be fifty times as long, and every significant development would have to be dated, etc.

It does seem to hold true that the further East one goes, the more the emphasis is on orthopraxy instead of orthodoxy, reaching its ultimate expression in Confucianism for exclusive orthopraxy, and its ultimate expression in gnosticism for exclusive orthodoxy. All other religions have a combination of both, with some bent more towards orthopraxy, and some towards orthodoxy. There may also be a pattern according to chronology as well.

All of the “Western” religions were straight mythologies, such as the various Greek, Roman, and Germanic paganisms and the mystery cults, of which very few had any historical basis, nor any theology or philosophy as we know it (the Greek philosophers worked outside of the paganism, not inside of it - Socrates was executed for “atheism”) although the far East also had its share of equivalent systems, based not on any lofty metaphysical desire but essentially for the control or coaxing of natural processes and the favor of petty gods, such as Shinto, and Africa developed only those fetishist and animist tribal religions.

Even modern attempts of people to make religions in the West are utterly ridiculous and are mere throwbacks to 1) the ancient heresies (such as Arianism or Gnosticism/New Age/Scientology, to a point, Mormonism and Masonry), 2) throwbacks or lack of eradication of indigenous animism, such as Santeria and Voodoo, 3) religions that aren’t religions, such as the various cults derived for the benefit of leaders, or around something like drug use (the Way of Infinite Harmony, Santa Muerte), or 4) revivals of the ancient paganisms and mythologies of the barbarians, sometimes in a syncretic manner (Asatru, Wiccanism), or the paganisms of cultures that didn’t even believe in their own paganisms (like Rome and Greece), of whence it was said, “Of the [pagan] religions, the philosophers know them to be equally false, the people believe them to be equally true, and the magistrates think them to be equally useful”.
 
I was dating from Laozi, but I did make a mistake: it’s the 6th century BC, not the 2nd century BC. So, errata to above post: Daoism: 6th century BC.

Even my memory’s not perfect! Not the 5th millennium BC. Such a dating is heading in to mythology (as Fu Hsi is the mythological inventor of writing and fishing, if I recall correctly, listed in the tables of Emperors around 3000-2800 BC, I believe) and the ur-religion range, whence Jainism can be claimed to exist eternally (as Jainism teaches), that Islam can be claimed to be founded by Abraham (as Islam teaches), so on.

No doubt there was a “primitive Daoism” that existed before Laozi, just as there was a “primitive Judaism” that existed before Moses (or Solomon, for a late dating), or a “primitive Hinduism” (the Vedic religion), but one which bears enough difference as to not be considered the same religion, as Vedic can not be considered Hindu or vice-verse, etc.

The first time it was proclaimed in a form related to what is known today, was by Laozi.
 
You’re right that Laozi was the first to put it in writing. I made an error too; I meant to say 4700 years ago rather than 4700 BC.

Xuan
 
I studied Far East history my senior year in high school. There was some study on ancient religions of India, China…

I am also thinking of Ur, the origin of Abraham, and in that region the people shared similar eschatological ideas found in a version of Adam and Eve…similar stories of the first man and woman…and Judaism also drew on this to explain the meaning of human existence…

But what theologians are saying is that Judaism was the one who had a belief in one God…in the Bible…in Genesis…there was a reference when people believed in a number of gods…have to look that one up which passage…but it gave me the impression the Jews eventually evolved as a race into believing in one God…and the beginning of the Jewish race began with Abraham.

About the emphasis on Rome…SS Peter and Paul were sent there, Peter chosen as head by Christ. The church spread out into many areas that developed their own jurisdictions, but it when in dispute, the handling of disputes went back to Rome to be settled there. The Roman church also was the financially strongest providing support and various other means in beginning new churches.

The Church in Rome has been the sign of unity among Christianity.

There is indeed great fidelity first and foremost into the person of Jesus Christ…Christ chose 12 apostles as witnesses to Him, who in turn were the founders of ancient churches. By 100 AD, the Church had a standard form of worship and liturgy, the episcopal form of administration, as well as the Apostles Creed as its foundation. It is indeed of upmost importance that this fidelity to Christ, Who He is, His mission be upheld, not by men alone, but with the Holy Spirit. And Christ came at the fulfilled time…that phrase alone something to think about in comparative religions, their purpose and message.

The difference between other religions and Christianity is that Christ as Man is the reconnecting point between God and mankind, the ongoing theme of mankind being redeemed.

But the orthodoxy is essentially because of all the human means – through the Holy Spirit – that the truth of Christ and Who He is is passed down…here in the USA, where there has been a great break of roots with the Apostolic Catholic church, do you find all sorts of theologies and beliefs outside of the Apostles Creed.
 
Agreed. But it was developed primarily in Greece and Rome.

Xuan
Expand for me on what it is you believe was developed in Greece and Rome as it concerns Christian thought.
 
With Christianity, you have to look at its origins and what it considered to be authoritative…
 
Expand for me on what it is you believe was developed in Greece and Rome as it concerns Christian thought.
I’ll just give a few highlights:

The language of the Church is primarily Greek and Roman (Latin). As I understand it, the Gospels, or the earliest copies we have of them, were written in Greek, not Aramaic. Many words have slightly different meanings in different languages, so it would follow that some of the words in the Gospels have slightly different meanings than the Aramaic words that were originally spoken. “Hades” for example.

The hierarchy of the Church was established in Rome, not Asia, so that’s the culture it developed in. Latin became the language of the Church, along with a lot of Greek terminology, like “Theotokos.”

Catholic theologians were generally students of Greek philosophy rather than Asian philosophy. In fact, I don’t think most Catholic theologians really understood Asian philosophy, if they had been exposed to it at all.

Xuan
 
Expand for me on what it is you believe was developed in Greece and Rome as it concerns Christian thought.
The entirety of theology and orthodoxy was developed/elucidated in Greece. Orthodoxy - Nicene Christianity - that Christianity of the early ecumenical councils, and today of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, of the Trinity, of the Hypostatic Union, of Theotokos-loving and -honoring iconodules - homoousious, hypostases, ousia, our theological vocabulary - this was developed by the Greeks, as seeing face to face, what was intimated in a mirror darkly by the Jews and Palestinian/Jewish Christians and the Scriptures. The entirety of heresy was developed by the Greeks too.

Latin Christian culture took over a thousand years to become anything appreciable on the philosophical or theological level.
 
I’ll just give a few highlights:

The language of the Church is primarily Greek and Roman (Latin). As I understand it, the Gospels, or the earliest copies we have of them, were written in Greek, not Aramaic. Many words have slightly different meanings in different languages, so it would follow that some of the words in the Gospels have slightly different meanings than the Aramaic words that were originally spoken. “Hades” for example.

The hierarchy of the Church was established in Rome, not Asia, so that’s the culture it developed in. Latin became the language of the Church, along with a lot of Greek terminology, like “Theotokos.”

Catholic theologians were generally students of Greek philosophy rather than Asian philosophy. In fact, I don’t think most Catholic theologians really understood Asian philosophy, if they had been exposed to it at all.

Xuan
I believe that you are confusing a means of communication with development of thought. Language is nothing more than a means to communicate.

Greek, Latin and Hebrew were common languages in Jerusalem at the time of Christ. Hebrew was predominant.

The land of Israel was under the influence of Greek culture from the time of its conquest by Alexander the Great at the end of the fourth century B.C.E. The people spoke Aramaic.

The languages that were spoken are just a way that communication took place.

The Council of Nicea was in Turkey, part of Central Asia.

You may want to redefine what it is you are asking questions about. Christianity remains an Eastern Religion, founded by an Asian Jew. The Council of Nicea and many of the Early Church Fathers were also Asian and African. The deposit of Faith is not changed by the Geography or language with one exception.

Protestant thought originated in Europe by Caucasions that spoke French, German, Swiss, and wrote in Latin. Luther published his objections to the Church in Latin. John Calvin published his treatise “The Institutes of Religion” in Latin. This is not the Eastern Religion founded by Christ, rather an invention of white Europeans far removed from the original source. They invented doctrine, took the Bible, mangled it, removed parts and then jettisoned the Septuagint for a Hebrew OT. They would be considered Western in your paradigm.

True Christianity did not originate in the West. Christianity is an Eastern Religion.👍
 
I believe that you are confusing a means of communication with development of thought. Language is nothing more than a means to communicate.

Greek, Latin and Hebrew were common languages in Jerusalem at the time of Christ. Hebrew was predominant.

The land of Israel was under the influence of Greek culture from the time of its conquest by Alexander the Great at the end of the fourth century B.C.E. The people spoke Aramaic.

The languages that were spoken are just a way that communication took place.

The Council of Nicea was in Turkey, part of Central Asia.

You may want to redefine what it is you are asking questions about. Christianity remains an Eastern Religion, founded by an Asian Jew. The Council of Nicea and many of the Early Church Fathers were also Asian and African. The deposit of Faith is not changed by the Geography or language with one exception.

Protestant thought originated in Europe by Caucasions that spoke French, German, Swiss, and wrote in Latin. Luther published his objections to the Church in Latin. John Calvin published his treatise “The Institutes of Religion” in Latin. This is not the Eastern Religion founded by Christ, rather an invention of white Europeans far removed from the original source. They invented doctrine, took the Bible, mangled it, removed parts and then jettisoned the Septuagint for a Hebrew OT. They would be considered Western in your paradigm.

True Christianity did not originate in the West. Christianity is an Eastern Religion.👍
You asked me to expand on what it is I believe was developed in Greece and Rome as it concerns Christian thought, so I did. I thought Khalid gave a pretty good response too.

I’ll give one more example: One reason why early Christians were persecuted in Rome was because they wouldn’t serve in the Roman army. It wouldn’t be Christlike to do so. But within a few centuries the Roman army itself was Christian. Christ’s teachings hadn’t changed, but interpretations of them had.

In the end, though, although we both agree that Christianity originated in Asia, if you believe that it was developed primarily in Asia rather than Europe, that’s up to you. I’m not going to argue about it.

Xuan
 
Just as English is the international language today, Greek was the international language in Christ’s time…and I had originally thought it was Latin.

St. Jerome was a scholar, a saint, and a real pain to be around…so much so that they exiled him to a cave. St. Jerome was the one who translated the books into the Bible.

He was most highly knowledgeable in Aramaic, Christ’s native tongue, Hebrew, and Latin. He translated Aramaic verbatim…and it has Hebrew overtones…there is no superlatives in Hebrew…Peter do you love me? Peter do you love me? Peter do you love me? To the Mass, Latin, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa…no ‘all’ to ‘many’, Christ died for many…with no intent to be exclusive to the rest…the liturgy in English now conforming to the Latin way of translation, richer, deeper, more mystical.

The Nazarene Christians were comprised of the original 12 apostles. St. James the Lesser was most likely the head of the first church…Jerusalem, where Mary, the Mother of Christ attended with St. John. They were not protected by God, and a number of them went to Ephesus where tradition has it that Mary lived there.

After the Roman persecution, the Church began to flourish in Constantinople. And there were the patriarchs, jurisdictions of Jerusalem, Antioch…I have to study this more…

But only SS Peter and Paul went to Rome. The rest of the apostles went out eastward; there is speculation that St. James the Greater went to Spain, another apostle to Gaul, France, St. Thomas to India (the Gospel of St. Thomas was discerned to be inspired by God, but for private revelation, it not speaking to the universal heart and spirit of people.)

The administrative headship has historically been in Rome. At the beginning as stated earlier, it was to settle disputes and be a financial support to emerging churches. The churches established by the apostles had their successors and jurisdicition. CAF is considering developing a new forum to discuss the eastern Orthodox faith where we can have more in depth instruction on their development.

The Orthodox Catholics handle mysticism better. But reflecting on the spirituality of the Mass, be it in the Latin rite or Orthodox…the more I understand and learn about liturgy, how much more mystical it is.

In the USA, there is a movement for parishes to display icons because they are artistic forms of catechesis, with great depth, the shapes, colors, exaggerations all having a spiritual meaning.

But going to far east, there was the problem of Nestorianism.

People must find their answer to this question on this reality: That Jesus Christ, God, became Man to save us, to restore us. Christ is the bridge between God and man. Christ was indeed a historical event for mankind and salvation history.

And subsequently, for each succeeding generation must be served to come to know the authentic Christ.

Just as the Eastern peoples are very far away from the geographical center of faith in Christ, likewise, we in America have many sects and denominations that have no sense of roots in the history of their faith, are misinformed, and although baptized through the Catholic rite and considered are separated brethren, nevertheless the fracture and fragmentation in America is a most grave problem to the integrity of faith in Christ.

The imposing power of the secular culture and its dehumanization of human beings and gender, along with the fragmentation of American Christianity pretty much nullifies its impact and good influence to counteract such powers.
 
You asked me to expand on what it is I believe was developed in Greece and Rome as it concerns Christian thought, so I did. I thought Khalid gave a pretty good response too.

I’ll give one more example: One reason why early Christians were persecuted in Rome was because they wouldn’t serve in the Roman army. It wouldn’t be Christlike to do so. But within a few centuries the Roman army itself was Christian. Christ’s teachings hadn’t changed, but interpretations of them had.

In the end, though, although we both agree that Christianity originated in Asia, if you believe that it was developed primarily in Asia rather than Europe, that’s up to you. I’m not going to argue about it.

Xuan
Xuan,

For clarity and understanding accept that Christianity is an Eastern Religion. There is development of Doctrine. Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orhtodox, OHCAC celebrate the same deposit of Faith. Christianity is an Eastern Religion. In that context you may want to look at other Eastern Religions as compared to Christianity, also an Eastern Religion. How is it that one Eastern Religion purports One God as compared to those that do not. This may be a better question in conformity with reality.👍
 
I think I made the point that every religion is Eastern. The West has never given rise to any original religion of its own.

I myself didn’t realize that until I started writing down the major religions and their place of origin.
 
I think I made the point that every religion is Eastern. The West has never given rise to any original religion of its own.

I myself didn’t realize that until I started writing down the major religions and their place of origin.
Khalid,

This would depend on how the notion of Religion is defined. The West has given us…

Protestant Thought or Protestanism
Christian Scientists
Mormons
Jehovah Witness
Shakers
Occultism
Spiritism
Neopaganism
Scientology

and so many of the USA birthed religious movements that identify themselves as “christian” however bare little resemblance to the Eastern Religion of Christianity.

In terms of what we get sometimes it isn’t what we expect. I say this in consideration that the question was asked concerning Western Religion and Eastern Religion. To properly answer this question Western Religion and Eastern religion must be defined in a way acceptable to all and consistent with real thought and history.

This thread has produced understanding of the question however not in the way that it was asked. Clarity is always best.👍
 
.Consider how while nearly all the old European pantheons of dieties dissolved (existing now like only in neo-paganism) while some Eastern belief systems like Taoism,Shintoism,Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism which were around for centuries before Christ’s birth are still here and flourishing (even though I have a feeling that part of that reason is that those belief systems will integrate other belief systems syncretically without much problems).
Taught in the American University system, it was Alexander the Great who influenced Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism, and the Daoist. Daoist are Chinese Jews today. Religious scholars teach King David of Israel and Alexander the Great were one and the same person; thereby, the Asia, Alexander’s favorite societies, was influence by the teachings of the Living Christ as early as 1010–1003 BC.

Hinduism was a part of the Ancient Roman Empire, thought it was more a part of the organized crime scene, if a separation from crime at that period of time was possible. Catholic missionaries helped to settle Ancient China, Japan, and Korea through the works of faithful servants in Christ. And, still today in Korea Christian mission work continues to build faith believers for Jesus Christ. Christianity has played a major part in world religion. Scriptural, Jesus told the disciples not to interfere with the ‘others’ who were baptizing in His Name, but to leave them undisturbed. With the combination of missionaries, the Holy Words, and understanding secularism, those religions mentioned above have been influenced by the Living Christ for thousands of years. All told, Christianity was first! 👋
 
Taught in the American University system, it was Alexander the Great who influenced Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism, and the Daoist. Daoist are Chinese Jews today. **Religious scholars teach King David of Israel and Alexander the Great were one and the same person; thereby, the Asia, Alexander’s favorite societies, was influence by the teachings of the Living Christ as early as 1010–1003 BC.**Hinduism was a part of the Ancient Roman Empire, thought it was more a part of the organized crime scene, if a separation from crime at that period of time was possible. Catholic missionaries helped to settle Ancient China, Japan, and Korea through the works of faithful servants in Christ. And, still today in Korea Christian mission work continues to build faith believers for Jesus Christ. Christianity has played a major part in world religion. Scriptural, Jesus told the disciples not to interfere with the ‘others’ who were baptizing in His Name, but to leave them undisturbed. With the combination of missionaries, the Holy Words, and understanding secularism, those religions mentioned above have been influenced by the Living Christ for thousands of years. All told, Christianity was first! 👋
Are you able to name these scholars that teach that David and Alexander the Great are one and the same?:eek:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top