Why is it too late?

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For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
 
For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils’ treated differently?
Skeptic,

Only God can judge your heart. If you have honestly sought the truth to the best of your ability, have not found God, but have lived an otherwise good life based on the law written on the heart of every man, then I believe you will be given such a chance. I think the question will be: Have you really sought the truth, and have you really been honest with yourself.

When I was an atheist/agnostic, I used to say a little prayer every day: “God if you’re there, and I don’t really believe you are, but if you are, please guide my life.”
It’s a suggestion for you my friend. 🙂
 
Skeptic,

Only God can judge your heart. If you have honestly sought the truth to the best of your ability, have not found God, but have lived an otherwise good life based on the law written on the heart of every man, then I believe you will be given such a chance. I think the question will be: Have you really sought the truth, and have you really been honest with yourself.

When I was an atheist/agnostic, I used to say a little prayer every day: “God if you’re there, and I don’t really believe you are, but if you are, please guide my life.”
It’s a suggestion for you my friend. 🙂
Thanks.

My background is as follows -

I was baptized, confirmed, and brought up Catholic…(even was an Alter Boy for a couple years). Later on in life, I left the Catholic church, drifted for a while, and eventually became a ‘born-again’, Bible-believing, on fire for Jesus Christian. I even got baptized again. I remained true and faithful to those beliefs for a few decades, studying the Bible in-depth, witnessing, and sincerely believing in the God of the Bible.

So, I don’t need to be patronized with such platitudes.
 
I don’t think the intention was to patronise! I read it a couple of times and it seems kind and sincere. The poster seems to be attempting to respond to what seems a sincere and concerned question.🙂

You’ll be familiar, of course, with Matthew 25 verses 31-46. Jesus words.
As with His simple command to love God above all and others as ourselves.
So I guess you know the answer to what seems to be your question.

Best wishes. 🙂
 
Why do you say devils/angels “have the benefit of the doubt”? If I understand the Church’s teaching on this (and I may not), salvation/redemption is not open to them. They are what they are. Christ’s sacrifice was for humans.
 
Thanks.

So, I don’t need to be patronized with such platitudes.
i didnt hear anyone patronizing you, i heard someone tell you what worked for them.
have a cup of tea and calm down, 'kay? if you dont like that answer, maybe you shoudl say what kind of answer you are looking for
 
The devils and angels were always pure spirit. They didn’t have a body to die. They had their time for choice, just as we do, and one third made the choice to live for their own glory. In doing so they rejected the light and love of God. The absence of God’s love and light is what makes them ugly, miserable, angry, and evil. If we reject the source of goodness and love, we live without it, which is essentially what hell is.
 
For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
I have not read this book just about it.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4044/is_200401/ai_n9397016/

If Grace Is True: Why God Will Save Every Person, By Philip Gully and James Mulholland. New York: HarperSanFrancisco, 2003. 224 pages.
 
Thanks.

My background is as follows -

I was baptized, confirmed, and brought up Catholic…(even was an Alter Boy for a couple years). Later on in life, I left the Catholic church, drifted for a while, and eventually became a ‘born-again’, Bible-believing, on fire for Jesus Christian. I even got baptized again. I remained true and faithful to those beliefs for a few decades, studying the Bible in-depth, witnessing, and sincerely believing in the God of the Bible.

So, I don’t need to be patronized with such platitudes.
Ouch. A little touchy, aren’t we? 😛

So how could you be baptized again? Or why? First one “didn’t take”?

Anyway, yes, the afterlife is too late. Why? Well, I think you have a misunderstanding of who condems who. We condemn ourselves by rejecting the free gift of salvation that is offered us, through the Sacrifice of Christ. The Almighty expects a wee bit of effort on our part, that is to be open and accepting of the Gospel.
 
For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
I don’t think the devilish faith in God is considered salvific according to most Christians. There is even a passage warning against having too much confidence in your faith as the vehicle of salvation. I can’t quote them on this website for some reason without it making my computer act up. But I can give the references if you are interested.

James 2:19 talks about how faith by itself is of no benefit, pointing out that it puts you in common with the devils who according to us are clearly not candidates for happiness with God.

I Cor 13:2 is where St. Paul talks about the importance of faith and love of God, or charity. He says that if he had faith to move mountains, he would be nothing without charity.

So even in this life, it isn’t enough just to believe in God according to how Catholics understand the way it works. But even supposing the devils had this advantage, and like some protestants we believed in faith alone as salvific, it doesn’t seem that there is faith or hope in heaven, only charity, love of God.

Two passages of St. Paul point to this. One in Rom.8:24, the other again in I Cor. 13 where he strongly hints that faith will go away by being face to face, like you said. Obviously the Christian Scriptures place a value to trusting in God before we can see Him which you might have quibbles about too. But it is certain that it would be inconsistent with what is said about faith to believe that its value extends into eternity. Without putting it into quotes, I’ll leave you with one passage from I Peter 1: “That the trial of your faith (much more precious than gold which is tried by the fire) may be found unto praise and glory and honour at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, you love: in whom also now, though you see him not, you believe: and believing shall rejoice with joy unspeakable and glorified; Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”

See where it talks about “having not seen, you love”? I think that is why it is taught that the hereafter will be too late. God made us out of nothing according to the Catholic Scriptures. As rational creatures, we and the angels are accountable for what we say and do AS creatures. We know we didn’t make ourselves, right? Where did we come from then? I am not a philosopher and maybe this is no help but I am just trying to drop some reasons for why a God who created each of us from nothing holds us accountable to at least look for the reason of our existence. Is the beauty of creation mere accident? A lot of people nowadays think so. You are far from alone. I don’t see how survivial of the fittest would evolve a sense perception that discerns that there is beauty in the universe created by God, and even great beauty recreated by human artists. It is so wonderful. The world is here and we are in it to make us wonder…and according to Christians, wonder leads to God and according to Catholics, eventually the Seven Sacraments and all the rest.

Well Skeptic,

I have probably bored you a little with my ramblings. Anyway, I wish you very well on your search for truth. Keep an eye out for goodness and beauty too!!! Heh.

Rory
 
For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
I’m relating this from personal experience. Since I’ve often mentioned it on other posts, I may be selling ice to eskimos, but here goes anyway.

My father was quite cruel, setting out deliberately to wreck my life and destroy my self confidence. He succeeded in doing both to a large extent, despite what all the new-agers say about how it all depends on us. Other people can and do damage lives, sometimes permanently.

On the night he died, he appeared to me in my room. I was shaken awake by something, rolled over and he materialised in the corner of the room near the door. He advanced towards the foot of the bed.

He started with an apology. We argued about a few things, and at the end he gave this truly terrifying scream, while trying to ward something off, and then promptly disappeared. I got up, turned on all the lights, checked all the cupboards, all the rooms, under the bed etc. It took me a while to get back to sleep I can tell you.

Now at that time I was an atheist, so I didn’t think such things were possible, and put it down to a bad dream.

Four days later my uncle turned up, and told me my father had died. However he said it was a mess, as his body wasn’t found for four days. It took a few seconds for the penny to drop, but I still remember turning towards the bedroom, counting backwards four days, and thinking to myself, “What the hell was that the other night?”

I became a Christian about four years later, and it actually had nothing to do with the apparition of my father. Since then I’ve had quite a number of “spiritual” experiences, the majority of them probably demonic, since God generally seems to stay rather quiet. Too quiet I sometimes think.

Now I don’t know how you think or why you’ve lost faith in God, but my father made the mistake of thinking God didn’t exist either, and that he could do what he wanted and get away with it. He found out just how wrong he was the night he died.

In fact we are given a chance the devil is not. According to the Catechism, the devil’s and demons’ fall is irrevocable - that is, they are finished. There is no Passion for them.

Part of the reason we have the gift of Christ’s offer of salvation is ***because ***we can’t see God. We depend on faith. If we could see Him, our fall would probably also be irrevocable.

Now why some people have faith, and others don’t, I do not know, even in almost identical experiences.

I shared digs with a bloke for a short while, who, along with his two brothers was taken off alcoholic parents and put into a cruel boys home with one of them (run by a church incidentally - not Catholic this time, but still …). The eldest brother had a slightly different story.

Concentrating on the younger two, they both had foetal alcohol syndrome, which gave their features a sligthly mongoloid look. However the bloke I knew did quite well for himself, since he always had faith in God, even in the middle of all that suffering. His other brother though perished when he drowned in a flood while trying to shelter from flooding rain, and his remains were washed up on a farm fence. Tragic.

Yet they both had the same upbringing, similar abilities or the lack thereof.

Now personally I think God has made an opening for the deceased brother, even though he was not a believer, on the grounds that God wasn’t fair to him. He’s not fair to a lot of people, with all due respect.

But why did one have an almost inbuilt trust in God, while the other did not. I don’t know.

But God does exist. So does the devil, and as my father found out the night he died, so does judgment.
 
So, I don’t need to be patronized with such platitudes.
Ooops! That came out way wrong. Sorry about that, folks. Please forgive me.

What I was trying to say, in a general way and to no one in particular, is the fact that seeking God, praying, studying the Bible, and all the rest that goes along with religious/spiritual endeavors, are not foreign to me.
 
For argument sake, let’s just say that to my chagrin, after I die that not only do I still exist in some kind of an afterlife, but I become face to face with an almighty deity who is to condemn me. Well, at that point, I’d obviously believe.

So, why is it too late to believe/accept at that point? After all, the devil is said to have been face-to-face with, and a believer that God exists, and has been, according to scripture, from since before the world was made.

Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
This is an important question. We mortals are largely left with the religions of our parents and grandparents. Devout Catholics believe the Catholic Church is the best route to salvation, some evangelicals say the Catholic Church is the route to hell, Muslims believe Islam is the latest religion revealed by God. How are we, given our limited knowledge and our inherent limited perspective to actually know which religion is the correct one, or if there is a correct one?

What if, by following a monotheistic religion, we are somehow guaranteeing our re-birth as lower creatures? There are too many what ifs?

What if there are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy?
 
Well, I don’t really know why it’d be too late but the Bible does say that after death, it’s too late. 😉

(Hebrews 9:27 RSV) And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Which, when you think about it, doesn’t that kind of contradict the Catholic idea of Purgatory?
 
Ouch. A little touchy, aren’t we? 😛

So how could you be baptized again? Or why? First one “didn’t take”?

Anyway, yes, the afterlife is too late. Why? Well, I think you have a misunderstanding of who condems who. We condemn ourselves by rejecting the free gift of salvation that is offered us, through the Sacrifice of Christ. The Almighty expects a wee bit of effort on our part, that is to be open and accepting of the Gospel.
Some Christians do not consider infant baptism as valid, and therefore only accept credobaptism.
 
Why don’t humans have at least the benefit of the doubt in an afterlife, which the devil and his angles do? Why are the devils treated differently?
We have, and eventually had, our chance.

Luke 16:19-31
between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ "But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ "He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”
 
Well, I don’t really know why it’d be too late but the Bible does say that after death, it’s too late. 😉

(Hebrews 9:27 RSV) And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Which, when you think about it, doesn’t that kind of contradict the Catholic idea of Purgatory?
No. Purgatory is to address the temporal punishment for our sins that have been forgiven. Purgatory does not achieve the forgiveness of sin.

If we die with unrepented mortal sin, we go to Hell. You can’t work them off in Purgatory.

A good analogy I’ve heard is say you brake a valuable vase in someone home (the sin). You apologize and are forgiven (repentence/confession/absolution). You still need to help clean up the mess (temporal punishment for the sin).

You can either “clean up the mess” here on earth through penance, or in Purgatory after you die.

God Bless
 
Some Christians do not consider infant baptism as valid, and therefore only accept credobaptism.
Yes, but you realize that is a heretical proposition in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches; to deny the efficacy of infant baptism.

Since the saving grace of baptism is a free gift from God, I don’t see why it shouldn’t have efficacy on an infant.

God Bless
 
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