Why is it wrong to convert by force?

[fakename]

I’m just asking because I know that it already is wrong.

Now, if the human will is not frequently easily overcome by fear from coercion, then we can safely say that coercion wouldn’t make a person’s will unfree and so some coercion is well used in getting people to freely convert.

so why does this argument not fly?

 

[bmullins]

What makes you think the human will is not frequently overcome by fear? Or that when it is not overcome by fear it is solely by that persons own abilities that they are able to do so?

 

[IanGE]

There are those who quote the Parable of the great banquet: “COMPEL them to come in.” (Luke 14:23) but I’m sorry, this does not register with me. Or at least I have not been given this as an Order. I still believe that it is my duty to spread the Good News and that conversion is in the gentle province of the loving Holy Spirit. The Greek word for “preach” or “proclaim” the Good News is more spread, or better “broadcast”, ie, SHOW the Good News from your very behaviour.
The Inquisitors certainly did Catholicism no good. They acted on Jesus’ word: “if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for whole body to be thrown into hell.” (Mt. 5:29). Guess they thought: “I’m doing you a favour, Mate” - grind, cut, pop, saw.:rolleyes".
In those days cremation was verboten as they thought that at the last trump there would be no body to resurrect. It is my view that witches were burnt at the stake and sinners hung, drawn and quartered so the Inquisitors would have no witnesses at the last judgement to point fingers at them.
PS After posting this, the Lord gently whispered “Matthew 28:19” to me. “Therefore go and MAKE DISCIPLES of all Nations.” Oops!

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

There are those who quote the Parable of the great banquet: “COMPEL them to come in.” (Luke 14:23) but I’m sorry, this does not register with me. Or at least I have not been given this as an Order. I still believe that it is my duty to spread the Good News and that conversion is in the gentle province of the loving Holy Spirit. The Greek word for “preach” or “proclaim” the Good News is more spread, or better “broadcast”, ie, SHOW the Good News from your very behaviour.
The Inquisitors certainly did Catholicism no good. They acted on Jesus’ word: “if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for whole body to be thrown into hell.” (Mt. 5:29). Guess they thought: “I’m doing you a favour, Mate” - grind, cut, pop, saw.:rolleyes".
In those days cremation was verboten as they thought that at the last trump there would be no body to resurrect. It is my view that witches were burnt at the stake and sinners hung, drawn and quartered so the Inquisitors would have no witnesses at the last judgement to point fingers at them.
PS After posting this, the Lord gently whispered “Matthew 28:19” to me. “Therefore go and MAKE DISCIPLES of all Nations.” Oops!

I’m afraid you haven’t been taught what the Office of the Inquisition was all about. Don’t listen to protestant historians. They lie.

 

[fakename]

user "bmullins":

What makes you think the human will is not frequently overcome by fear? Or that when it is not overcome by fear it is solely by that persons own abilities that they are able to do so?

well, the fact that many things are done partly by the threat of force or coercion like the fact that people pay taxes, or the fact that someone could get sued, etc.

And yet, this does not completely take away the free will in such acts; people freely pay their taxes.

So similarly, people could be compelled to join a religion but w/o much violence to their free will.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

You could argue that most religious systems force their members to stay. By threatening hell or some other flavor of eternal punishment to people who are not faithful, religions are using force (albeit in a subtle form) to compel orthodoxy.

 

[Alterum]

At first glance it seems that conversion by force, strictly speaking, is impossible; firstly, because conversion is principally an act of God; and secondly, because one cannot be forced to believe something he believes isn’t true (for example, that two and two make five).

You might consider some kind of compulsive training or brain-washing, over an extended period of time, acting as a partial-efficient cause of conversion. Even then, however, God would be the principal efficient cause. In that case, only “force” which violates some moral principle would (by definition) be immoral.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

well, the fact that many things are done partly by the threat of force or coercion like the fact that people pay taxes, or the fact that someone could get sued, etc.

And yet, this does not completely take away the free will in such acts; people freely pay their taxes.

I think a term that better characterizes these things is “compulsory” or “obligatory.” Some one is still capable of not fulfilling an obligation (so it doesn’t violate the concept of free will as I’ve seen it used in this forum). But the term also communicates that there has been some punishment that will be dished out to encourage some one to conform to commandment or restriction. I think the terms are better understood by a wider audience and have less of a chance of miscommunication than “free will.”

So similarly, people could be compelled to join a religion but w/o much violence to their free will.

You could argue that most religious systems force their members to stay. By threatening hell or some other flavor of eternal punishment to people who are not faithful, religions are using force (albeit in a subtle form) to compel orthodoxy.

If some one chose to join a religion without any threats being made by its member then I would say the person was convinced by the religion. Yes, that religion may teach that there are consequences for not following its doctrines…I’m not quite sure how you would evaluate the coerciveness of those threats without also looking at how they were delivered. On the other end of the spectrum there have also been conversions in which the threats would be executed by the same body of people that are obligating the conversion such as conversions that were done under threats of beatings or death (ex: conversion of some American natives or slaves).

 

[fakename]

Actually I realized why it is bad:

the dictates of a false conscience are still the dictates of conscience.

I got a little too hung up on truth and I forgot about this little detail.

So clearly one cannot force conversions.