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fbl9
Guest
so far it has any one really proved it is wrong to love Mary?
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
If the Protestants are right and it is wrong to love Mary, I guess Jesus never got the memo.
Reminds me of the song - if loving you is wrong, I don’t want to be right! (you here can be God, Mary, the Saints, and/or the Angels)
If the Protestants are right and it is wrong to love Mary, I guess Jesus never got the memo.
Reminds me of the song - if loving you is wrong, I don’t want to be right! (you here can be God, Mary, the Saints, and/or the Angels)
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Alexius
Guest
I don’t think it is a problem, not even for evangelicals. What they see as wrong is what appears to be excesses by Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Also, they don’t accept that she intercedes, so there is no reason to think of her more than the great woman she is…Unfortunately, the baby has gone out with the bath water…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Has anyone tried?
It seems to me that just because we ‘protestants’ don’t venerate Mary the way that catholics do it means we don’t love her. In fact I have even heard that it means we hate her.
It’s ludicrous…
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Goth_Catholic
Guest
Not really. I wouldn’t use hate, disrespect is more fitting.Has anyone tried?
justasking4
It seems to me that just because we ‘protestants’ don’t venerate Mary the way that catholics do it means we don’t love her. In fact I have even heard that it means we hate her.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
How is it disrespect for me to do what I feel God tells me? Wouldn’t Mary rather me follow what I belieive God tells me, especially when it means that I give all my praise and honor to God?
How is it disrespect, I don’t ignore what she did nor do I feel she isn’t blessed.
How is it disrespect when I go straight to God?
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
It is possible to go straight to God. I find it much easier to go to God through Mary. God gave Mary to us all as a Mother and she watches out for us with motherly love.
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Goth_Catholic
Guest
It isn’t disrespectful to go straight to God, but it’s disrespectful to ignore his queen
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Well, we will have to see when we get to Heaven.It isn’t disrespectful to go straight to God, but it’s disrespectful to ignore his queen
Example:
My Dad had this piano bench that was full of pictures of my Mom and our family before they got divorced. In my heart I felt that my Dad would be mad if I went through those things so I would sneak in when he wasn’t around and look through them. I felt extremely guilty but it turns out that my Dad didn’t mind at all. But he still punished me because I was doing something that I knew was wrong and did it anyway.
The moral of the story is, I was punished for doing something that wasn’t necessarily wrong in my Dad’s eyes but because I thought it was and did it anyway it was wrong to do it. If I feel that the veneration (parades, prayer, songs, statues, believing she can heal you…) is wrong I believe that God is going to acknowledge that because He knows I am trying to do right.
And I don’t ignore her, I have a feeling that she feels no ill will towards me for trying to worship God and give all Glory to Him.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
"singinbeauty:
I have never seen justasking4 try to say that it is wrong to love Mary but he is trying to disprove the extent in which catholics venerate Mary as he sees it as worship rather than mere devotion.
From what I can see, no one has tried to say you can’t love Mary…
I almost missed this due to the way you quote posts…
I have never seen justasking4 try to say that it is wrong to love Mary but he is trying to disprove the extent in which catholics venerate Mary as he sees it as worship rather than mere devotion.
From what I can see, no one has tried to say you can’t love Mary…
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Goth_Catholic
Guest
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puzzleannie
Guest
I work with a lot of Protestants and never heard any of them express this opinion. to whom is this thread addressed?
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
I do know that many Protestants don’t hate Mary, they just downplay her so much as to avoid any appearance of idolatry, or as they call it mariolatry, that from the Catholic perspective seems very disrespectful. And in many of their efforts to downplay Mary, they tend to wander into heretical opinions such as Mary is not Ever-Virgin, that she wasn’t assumed into Heaven, that she wasn’t immaculately conceived, etc.
Now, there are some Protestants who do hate Mary, but they tend to be among the most virulent anti-Catholics.
I don’t know - I’m not the OP.
I do know that many Protestants don’t hate Mary, they just downplay her so much as to avoid any appearance of idolatry, or as they call it mariolatry, that from the Catholic perspective seems very disrespectful. And in many of their efforts to downplay Mary, they tend to wander into heretical opinions such as Mary is not Ever-Virgin, that she wasn’t assumed into Heaven, that she wasn’t immaculately conceived, etc.
Now, there are some Protestants who do hate Mary, but they tend to be among the most virulent anti-Catholics.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I would like to see links, say to threads on this forum, where Protestants (in particular since that is the term used by OP) not fundamentalists or members of non-Christian bodies, state inequivocably that they hate Mary and that it is wrong to love Mary.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
This isn’t the only place that I communicate with Protestants, though.
I am not certain that there are any on this forum (at least that I am aware of) that are so vile as that.
This isn’t the only place that I communicate with Protestants, though.
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puzzleannie
Guest
it is for OP to substantiate his claim since he made it.
it is just as unfair and outrageous to begin a “discussion” by an unverified global generalization about a group of non-Catholics, as it would be to begin such a discussion with an unverified claim about Catholics. such a tactic is unworthy of this forum.
it is just as unfair and outrageous to begin a “discussion” by an unverified global generalization about a group of non-Catholics, as it would be to begin such a discussion with an unverified claim about Catholics. such a tactic is unworthy of this forum.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Why is it wrong to venerate Mary and honor her, to pray to her for intercession, to have a loving devotion to the Mother of God, etc. (which is what I think the OP means by the title)?
While I do think this is a carry over from a thread that reached its 1000 post limit (hence the part2) - perhaps a more descriptive title and OP would help:
Why is it wrong to venerate Mary and honor her, to pray to her for intercession, to have a loving devotion to the Mother of God, etc. (which is what I think the OP means by the title)?
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fbl9
Guest
if you care to sift through approximately 1036 post on the orginal thread you will find there has been nothing said to the effect that it is wrong to love Mary.in my OP i stated "there has been no one to prove it is wrong to love Mary"there was no general statement of ncc’s or any one else for that matter.puzzleannie me thinks you was reading too much into the OP.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Goth_Catholic,
Please don’t ignore this post, I would like to know your thoughts…
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The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
Being the father of three girls I find the text I highlighted in bold puzzling. Being a father the only way I would punish one of my girls is if they actually did something that I deemed wrong. I would not punish them for something that I didn’t mind them doing regardless of what they felt their conscience was telling them. That’s the thing about the human conscience, for it to be proper the conscience needs to be developed with sound teaching. In other words that analogy makes no sense.
In regards to Mary of course she would not have ill will for any of us to give glory to God.
But that’s not the question.
The question is if God minds for His children to glorify Him in her whom He has made the mother of His Son.
The Protestant answer is ‘yes’. That answer comes from a very respectable, albeit misplaced, fear of idolatry.
I call the fear misplaced because it is a fear that blinds those to not accept what the Holy Spirit has done through this humble virgin from Nazareth.
In the New Dispensation God does not horde His glory, He doesn’t need any more glory than which He already has; that which is already infinite. And He is in no way threatened by sharing His glory with those in whom He has glorified as sons and daughters in His Son.
Instead God, the Father through the Son and in the Spirit, has poured out His glory to His children. This grace started with Mary and continued through the apostles, martyrs, and saints down to this very day. We glorify and honor Mary because God has already done so. And we glorify God in Mary because it is through her ‘yes’ that our salvation was manifested in human form.
The Protestant response to this glorification of Mary by God always seems like a response of jealousy. “What did she do to deserve that?”, is the question I hear most. My answer is always “Nothing, that’s what makes it so wonderful!”
The point is that God didn’t have to, but He wanted to, and so He did. And we should be happy not only for Mary but for all others who are given such graces unmerited.
God wants us to love her, because after all He loved her first and wants us to join Him in His love of her. “Love your neighbor as yourself.” This love is what it means to be “in Christ.” We love her in Christ, and therefore we love Christ.
God Bless.
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