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benedictus2
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I would add here praying the rosary during Mass!
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Saintlucy
Guest
According to GIRM the Homily is only to include an reflection of the liturgy of the Word for that day.
The Homily
- The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,[63] for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.[64]
As a Dominican, or at any rate one who studied at a Dominican seminary, you should be a fine preacher. Surely you could start a program, or do a one-off talk within the parish, that explains the way in which Catholics should venerate our Blessed Mother.
I have been a Catholic since I was baptised at 3 weeks of age 53 years ago. I was educated at Catholic schools and I have never come across a Catholic who worshipped Mary, missed Mass because of some Marian devotion or placed Mary on a par with the Godhead.
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FrJohnB
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Lets start with what you post here which I do agree with but let me also point out the loophole I can use.According to GIRM the Homily is only to include an reflection of the liturgy of the Word for that day.
The Homily
The homily is not the place to discuss Marian dogma unless, perhaps, it is during the homily for a Marian Solemnity.
- The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,[63] for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.[64]
As a Dominican, or at any rate one who studied at a Dominican seminary, you should be a fine preacher. Surely you could start a program, or do a one-off talk within the parish, that explains the way in which Catholics should venerate our Blessed Mother.
I have been a Catholic since I was baptised at 3 weeks of age 53 years ago. I was educated at Catholic schools and I have never come across a Catholic who worshipped Mary, missed Mass because of some Marian devotion or placed Mary on a par with the Godhead.
Notice “and the particular needs of the listeners?” If they NEED instruction it is a good time. It is also in the first part for “nurturing the Christian life,” If I am going to nurture them properly I also must teach some and preach some. there should be a balance. They should be nurtured into not just being better Christians but better Catholics as well.
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FrJohnB
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Padre
There is much debate as to if Mary Ann Collins actually exists or not.
Even on this thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69590
Here is another site about her where some research was done that IF she did exist she never took vows as a nun.
speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/MaryAnnCollins.html
She has never done an interview and nobody seems to have a picture of her. even Baptists blogs call her a “fake nun” that should say something. It sounds like, IF the person is real that she is a disgruntled person who did not understand the Catholic faith to start with or she is a Protestant made up to look like a former Catholic. My opinion tends to fall towards the latter particularly when Baptists call her “fake nun.”
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FrJohnB
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GREAT ONE!!! I forgot about that one. How can you focus on the sacrifice of the Mass if you are focused on the Rosary? THANK YOU.
I have NO PROBLEM before or after. Particularly the Divine Mercy chaplet; that is most appropriate before mass.
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benidict
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hi Father John, and Father Padrej. i have been reading through your discussion on the Holy Mother. very educational, and much appreciated. i think some of us place more emphasis than others on Her. even our protestant friends. i think we may even have a few baptist in the closet, that ask for her intercession.lol! from a laymans perspective, and from a personal one, i would simply say that Mary has done more than just open my eyes to Her. i view all women differently than i did before. i try to treat each one, as if she were my sister, my daughter, and my mother. i think She has more impact than people realize. all doctrine aside. because of Her, i chose to remain single the rest of my life. and i couldnt be happier. i dont have the stress most couples do. i cannot say i worship Her. but i can feel Her presence just as i feel Jesus presence. its like they are on either side of me. and that is a comfort. l like to point out to people, that when i die, my hope is to see Jesus and His Mother there waiting for me. the doctrinal aspects are fascinating though.and i am learning alot. peace 
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Teneas
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Well I’m protestant, and I love Mary.
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Padrej
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I know of many Protestants who also feel her presence and do venerate her. One of my former parishes had a couple of ladies who lived a block apart, one venerate Mary the other St Joseph. It was amazingly hard to find items for veneration for the latter. I remember she thought it barbaric to bury a statue of St. Joseph in your yard if you wanted to sell your house.hi Father John, and Father Padrej. i have been reading through your discussion on the Holy Mother. very educational, and much appreciated. i think some of us place more emphasis than others on Her. even our protestant friends. i think we may even have a few baptist in the closet, that ask for her intercession.lol! from a laymans perspective, and from a personal one, i would simply say that Mary has done more than just open my eyes to Her. i view all women differently than i did before. i try to treat each one, as if she were my sister, my daughter, and my mother. i think She has more impact than people realize. all doctrine aside. because of Her, i chose to remain single the rest of my life. and i couldnt be happier. i dont have the stress most couples do. i cannot say i worship Her. but i can feel Her presence just as i feel Jesus presence. its like they are on either side of me. and that is a comfort. l like to point out to people, that when i die, my hope is to see Jesus and His Mother there waiting for me. the doctrinal aspects are fascinating though.and i am learning alot. peace
On the taking Mary too far…
I can remember I was honored to be asked one night to con-celebrate at St. Joseph’s Emmitsburg MD where Gianna Talone Sullivan receives visions of the Blessed Mother. As visiting “Clergy” I was sitting about 15 feet from her. (on the Mary side next to the Marian altar) When the rosary was said at the beginning of the service it would get to about the 3rd decade and she would go into a trance and her face would change drastically. The whole process would stop and wait till the “message” was ended and Gianna returned to her seat from the kneeling position. this done the rosary and mass would continue. When she wrote down what was said she handed it to a deacon who handed it to the priest who took it back into the sacristy to I suppose check it out to see if it said anything contrary to Catholic doctrines. the mass ended the priest would then read the message. I have noticed that since 2000 Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore has since stopped the service from happening. The following is from one of the Emmitsburg websites.
I
Soon after on 2002 Gianna began spreading abroad her “visions” of Mary. In 2003 Cardinal Keeler received the following
emmitsburg.net/cult_watch/rm/Ratzinger_to_%20Keeler.pdf
From then Cardinal Ratzinger that the visions are not supernatural. What concerns me is she has now moved from Maryland into Pennsylvania and claims to still be operating under Catholic doctrines and principles under the guise of The Foundation of the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart.
I thought that No one can go off and start up their own church and call it Roman Catholic.
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benidict
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you are completely correct Father. and if this spirit led her to rebel. then i cannot see how it could be the Blessed Mother talking to her. that almost sounds closer to automatic writing or possession. even the devil can come as an angel of light so its good we have an injunction to test the spirits to see if they are from God. Peace
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Padrej
Guest
Has anyone also heard of the Shrine of the two hearts in Huntsville TX that produces a book of “visionary messages” of Mary?
walkercountyonline.com/org/twohearts/treasures/index.html
Considering the Vatican’s strict stance on many of the “visionary’s” I am surprised that many Catholics would not ask if the following procedures have been followed:
*When a claim of heavenly apparitions occurs, the local bishop will need to set up a commission of psychiatrists, psychologists, theologians and priests who will investigate the claims systematically.
The first step will be to impose silence on the alleged visionaries and if they refuse to obey then this will be taken as a sign that their claims are false.
The visionaries will next be visited by psychiatrists, either atheists or Catholics, to certify their mental health and to verify whether they are suffering from conditions of a hysterical or hallucinatory character or from delusions of leadership.
The third step will be to investigate the person’s level of education and to determine if they have had access to material that could be used to falsely support their claims.
If the visionary is considered credible they will ultimately be questioned by one or more demonologists and exorcists to exclude the possibility that Satan is hiding behind the apparitions in order to deceive the faithful.
In the 2003, a Vatican yearbook revealed that between 1905 and 1995 there were 295 reported apparitions, only 11 of which were recognized as genuine.
It said that in many cases ‘signs from heaven’ were exposed as human trickery. *
What raised a “red flag” for me in reading the book was on page 62 this line, “Make note- Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, the mother of Divine Grace, the mother of all nations, has been sent to earth to dispatch my messages of love, of warnings, to all who will listen. Do not take the rumors of her appearances lightly, for she comes at my bidding to rekindle man’s love for his creator.”… “She comes with first hand knowledge of God’s wishes for his people.”
What bothers me is the “Do not take the rumors of her appearances lightly” as this is saying to those who read this to follow after EVERY person who claims to see Mary or follow Mary. If only 11 out of 295 apparitions in 1995 were found to be genuine by the Vatican is this line alone not enough to raise an eyebrow of question as to the validity of the “locutions” or “visions”?
Is this possibly taking the love of Mary a bit too far???
walkercountyonline.com/org/twohearts/treasures/index.html
Considering the Vatican’s strict stance on many of the “visionary’s” I am surprised that many Catholics would not ask if the following procedures have been followed:
*When a claim of heavenly apparitions occurs, the local bishop will need to set up a commission of psychiatrists, psychologists, theologians and priests who will investigate the claims systematically.
The first step will be to impose silence on the alleged visionaries and if they refuse to obey then this will be taken as a sign that their claims are false.
The visionaries will next be visited by psychiatrists, either atheists or Catholics, to certify their mental health and to verify whether they are suffering from conditions of a hysterical or hallucinatory character or from delusions of leadership.
The third step will be to investigate the person’s level of education and to determine if they have had access to material that could be used to falsely support their claims.
If the visionary is considered credible they will ultimately be questioned by one or more demonologists and exorcists to exclude the possibility that Satan is hiding behind the apparitions in order to deceive the faithful.
In the 2003, a Vatican yearbook revealed that between 1905 and 1995 there were 295 reported apparitions, only 11 of which were recognized as genuine.
It said that in many cases ‘signs from heaven’ were exposed as human trickery. *
What raised a “red flag” for me in reading the book was on page 62 this line, “Make note- Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, the mother of Divine Grace, the mother of all nations, has been sent to earth to dispatch my messages of love, of warnings, to all who will listen. Do not take the rumors of her appearances lightly, for she comes at my bidding to rekindle man’s love for his creator.”… “She comes with first hand knowledge of God’s wishes for his people.”
What bothers me is the “Do not take the rumors of her appearances lightly” as this is saying to those who read this to follow after EVERY person who claims to see Mary or follow Mary. If only 11 out of 295 apparitions in 1995 were found to be genuine by the Vatican is this line alone not enough to raise an eyebrow of question as to the validity of the “locutions” or “visions”?
Is this possibly taking the love of Mary a bit too far???
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Saintlucy
Guest
How, being Protestant could you con-celebrate at a Catholic Mass?
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FrJohnB
Guest
I can answer that question before he can. #1 some of the areas he serves if liberal towards being ecumenical, and #2 he being a conservative Anglican also has Roman Catholic orders in his lines of Apostolic succession. (this part was discussed on a previous thread) #3 with special permission from the bishop and diocese you can also do this, Padrej and his former bishop used to work closely with Cardinal Keeler’s office.How, being Protestant could you con-celebrate at a Catholic Mass?
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benidict
Guest
hello my friend. its kind of hard to classify Anglican/Epicopalians as protestants. i can see how this could happen. do not forget. the priest that are coming into the Church are allowed to keep their wives. they just will not be able to remarry in the (God forbid) event their wives pass on first. peace to youHow, being Protestant could you con-celebrate at a Catholic Mass?
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FrJohnB
Guest
What saddens me is to see that Gianna still has a following after the Church has declared her to be a fraud. Many of the websites about her describe her followers as “the cult of Mary.” CULT is the operative word here, they take the visions of Mary, albeit out of love for Mary, above and beyond what the church’s teaching are on the matter to the point of leading the faithful away from the church. This is where the love of Mary also crosses the line.
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Padrej
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Fr John actually provided the answer, it actually took 3 weeks to get permission from the Catholic archdiocese. My role was limited so as not to “confuse” the faithful who may know me.How, being Protestant could you con-celebrate at a Catholic Mass?
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cruisin
Guest
Thank you this does help. I guess I get concerned with some of the Catholic posters here that have pretty much told me that it was impossible for a catholic to step over the line, and it was impossible for a catholic to worship Mary. I understand this is not what the church teaches, but we are still human, I think?
When I ask what the " line " is I don’t usually get a straight answer, telling me that there are Catholics who don’t know, understand or wish to except, where that line is and when they have crossed into worship. so thank you.
For me the question is, “how close to sin do I want to get before getting burned?”
It is better for me to spend my time trying to focus on God. that is hard enough some days.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
First, there is supposedly a problem with Catholics who “worship Mary”, which I have never witnessed and now, a problem with Catholics who supposedly pray the Rosary during Mass. I have seen people pray the Rosary before Mass… I’ve done that… and I’ve seen Catholics hold their Rosaries during Mass but I have never observed Catholics actually pray the Rosary during Mass.
With everything going on during a Catholic Mass, I would think that there would be too many distractions to pray the Rosary.
Because, the order of the Mass requires participation of the faithful, I don’t know when one would have an opportunity to pray the Rosary and if someone did, it would be very noticeable, especially if that person didn’t stand , kneel, respond, pray, give the sign of peace or take communion at the appropriates times.
It takes about, or at least, 45 minutes to pray the Rosary (1 mystery) and a Catholic Mass is right around an hour.
Is it just me, or does it seem that you and a couple others here, are either making a bigger deal out of this “Mary problem” than what really exists… Or, are you guys experiencing something different than I and many other Catholics here have experienced… That is not the Catholic Church that I know…
I was also struck by your comment regarding Mother Angelica from EWTN, with your almost, gleeful response to her alleged chastisement by a priest, on television and in front of a live audience (I’ve seen her show before), by saying… the look on her face was “priceless”… That seems a little odd, coming for a “Catholic priest”… to say something like that about a Catholic nun, let alone, a Mother Superior…
What did you mean by “priceless”?
Finally, did you inferred that Mother Angelica broke the first Commandment, or that she worship’s Mary?..You don’t actually believe that, do you?
Please correct me, If I have misunderstood any of your comments here.
Thank you.
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Cinette
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*I have been very busy and hence I have not posted recently but am now catching up.
A thought occurred to me. As a Catholic (revert) who is constantly learning more and who loves the Church and believes that Jesus founded the Church and put in motion that which is necessary for the development - teaching and administering the Holy Sacraments - of His Church, I have learned to trust the Church. We have the Pope and the Magisterium and Apostolic Succession and the Deposit of Faith. Now if there is something we do not understand we should seek answers from appropriate places. We have the Catechism which is pretty comprehensive and all that. We also have the priesthood of the laity. The laity is more well formed than in the past and there are many knowledgeable people than ever. I trust that the Church provides all the resources for our instruction. Sometimes one might find a priest or other members of the Church who may say something which does not appear correct and so we check in the Catechism or with other knowledgeable members of the Church. We also pray for discernment. So all this together will lead us to the truth.
Look - we have Catholic Answers! We have the privilege of connecting with people of other Faiths whose questions also get us searching. This is wonderful!
Mary has a magnificent role in the life of the Church and in our lives. She is REAL! She is a great evangelist! I get all excited when I hear of Protestants who love her too.
How can it be “wrong” to love Mary? If she is good enough for Jesus then she is good enough for us!
I LOVE MOTHER MARY - SHE IS WONDERFUL - SHE IS OUR HEAVENLY MOTHER!
Now I HAVE to go but must return and catch up - from page 12!
Lots of love to you all who love Mary and to those who don’t know her then it is about time you did.
Blessings
Cinette
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benidict
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Thank you this does help. I guess I get concerned with some of the Catholic posters here that have pretty much told me that it was impossible for a catholic to step over the line, and it was impossible for a catholic to worship Mary. I understand this is not what the church teaches, but we are still human, I think?
When I ask what the " line " is I don’t usually get a straight answer, telling me that there are Catholics who don’t know, understand or wish to except, where that line is and when they have crossed into worship. so thank you.
For me the question is, “how close to sin do I want to get before getting burned?”
so do you think getting close to the Blessed Mother is a sin? it is possible to step over the line, when you stop testing the spirits. i have never had an encounter with the Blessed Mother where she speaks to me. but i have noticed her intercession when i ask her for it. and i have had some incredible experiences at first friday adoration dealing with Her Son, Jesus. while praying the Rosary. please clarify my friend where the “sin” is? the question should be, how close do you want to get to your Mother before you get burned. i love my earthly mother, and i dont think she would ever “burn” me. how much more with my heavenly Mother. even my earthly Mother understands when i say i need to talk with my Mother, and what that means. and she is a protestant. Peace
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benidict
Guest
just a quick question. hopefully its not off topic. but what is the history of of anti-marian theology? for lack of a better term. i though Martin Luther, and John Calvin never gave up their Catholic beliefs about Her. i could be wrong.Peace
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