Why is it wrong to love Mary, the Mother of God?

[KathleenGee]

Mary is our spiritual mother…and we are giving her all our being so she can re-form us from the mistakes we have done to ourselves, by doing her maternal work on us as she had done to her son Jesus in raising Him.

I trust Mary as mother for Christ. How much we can trust her for our growth in Him!

 

[Saintlucy]

We never address our Blessed Mother with supplications like this before we give worship and praise to the Trinity. The Rosary, for instance begins with the Our Father.
I think of prayer to Mary as a child asking their mother to ask their father for something that only he can provide.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Lucy…and the rosary is the beginning of Christ’s life here on earth…within the womb of His mother…how beautiful…

God can do anything, but He chose the womb of a mother to bring Christ to us.

True devotion to Mary comes from Jesus and she brings us to Him in a most profound way. She was the one at the wedding of Cana who told those, ‘Do what He tells you to do’, Mary the one who inspired Christ to begin His ministry when He said His time hadn’t come yet…

Something to ponder here.

 

[T_More]

God needed Mary for his grand purpose.

Who are we to say that we don’t?

 

[KathleenGee]

Christ restores all of creation through Him and our cooperation with Him…

Each one of us is loved far more than we will ever imagine…

May be we need to remind ourselves that the best in heaven will be experiencing that love face to face…

 

[FrJohnB]

What I am finding odd is

1. Your name (FatherJohnB) Are you a priest?
2. Your demonination (Catholic) Nothing you say here is Catholic dogma.

Answers to your questions
1 Yes I am a priest, trained in the Dominican house of studies.
2 What have I said specifically against Catholic dogma? I was responding to the protestants who wanted to know about Mary on the basis of scripture and there are some things that we Catholics take on faith and church traditions my words

“Here is the problem with the Marian dogma according to scripture that we Catholics are asked to take on faith”

What I also point out is the difference between us and the Orthodox in this, how is that contrary to Catholic dogma?

If I post something that some do not agree with funny the Catholics come after me and question my being a priest and throw innuendo out about people being protestants in Catholic clothing and the like. Look up your own dogmas and study their history, you will find what I am posting is merely the contrast of them so that a Protestant will know what we take on FAITH outside of what is clear in scripture.

 

[FrJohnB]

I was instructed by our priest director, who was correcting errors taught by lay people in parish leadership. He studied at the Vatican and was put in by former Archbishop Levada.

He instructed us in support that Mary is the Immaculate Conception and ever virgin. His instruction to us was that her whole being was created by the Heavenly Father through the Holy Spirit that proclaimed ‘Yes!’ to the will of God. Her assent to the Father erased her of original sin, and that she was ‘saved’ at her conception. Priests taught us that Mary has a different constitution than us, that we can ever be like her, but we can ask her to help us live closer to Christ, and that going to Christ through her will bring us closer to Him and through a shorter ladder.

People don’t need Mary to come to Christ. But she greatly facilitates our way to Him, and because she is His mother, she brings us that much closer to Him with her. She is our greatest advocate.

I do hospice and meet those who care for them who really want to learn more about Mary. She has helped several who in their words, lived a bad life, to have confidence that God will forgive them. Previously they were thrashing and trying to run a way, tormented by evil thoughts, and then with Mary come to God and go in peace. She is most powerful against the devil.

Mary is a garden of grace, beauty and love. We now have our Mother’s Day Luncheon annual title have the word of ‘garden’ in our changing themes…Last year, we had ‘Mary’s Flower Garden’, where each table was decorated with a particular flower theme or name theme, very beautiful. One table was called, “Mary’s Tulip Table”, another, ‘Mary’s Kitchen’ that was decorated with themes from Provence with garlands of lavendar, another, “Heart of Mary” decorated with hearts and roses, etc. This year it was "Mary’s Prayer Garden’, and the talk this year was by a mother who prayed for so many years for her addicted daughter who finally came to the Lord and was healed with the help of Mary’s prayers.

Mary is the Mother of Hope and she helps never to give up and keep praying to the Lord for our concerns.

Here you go with pure Marian dogmas in highlighted sections. This is very appropriate

Her assent to the Father erased her of original sin, and that she was ‘saved’ at her conception

.
Now funny if I said this in different words so that hopefully the Protestants on the forum can understand what we take on faith everybody says that I am not quoting Marian dogmas. Yet you believe laity.

 

[Padrej]

T_More:
the site link to here catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp says
Prior to the time of Jerome, the standard theory was that they were Jesus’ “brothers” who were sons of Joseph though not of Mary. According to this view, Joseph was a widower at the time he married Mary. He had children from his first marriage (who would be older than Jesus, explaining their attitude toward him). This is mentioned in a number of early Christian writings. One work, known as the Proto-evangelium of James (A.D. 125) records that Joseph was selected from a group of widowers to serve as the husband/protector of Mary, who was a virgin consecrated to God. When he was chosen, Joseph objected: “I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl” (4:9).

This is just as Fr John had said
It goes on to say
Today, the most commonly accepted view is that they were Jesus’ cousins.

Something else Fr John also agreed with. Early in the article it mentions the Greek word for brother and not one for cousin. the Greek is clear on the word for bother can also mean cousin, BUT it also mentions this custom as being used in the translation of the Septuagint which was only in the OLD testament. So we have to rely on the New Testament Greek here. Something else Fr John’s post backs up.
I cannot figure out for the life of me how if he has been in agreement with catholic postings how you doubt one of your own clergy if it is not in the words you are accustomed to hearing.

 

[BryanM27]

I cannot figure out for the life of me how if he has been in agreement with catholic postings how you doubt one of your own clergy if it is not in the words you are accustomed to hearing.

That bold section is the problem. It doesn’t matter who says it. The Holy Father could come into this forum and tell us the Church’s teaching, and if it was not what we were familiar with, most would initially reject it.

Want a perfect example? Read the Gospels. Christ showed the people clear evidence, supported by scripture, that he was the Messiah promised to them. He wasn’t what they had been expecting, so he was initially rejected by them. Some began to believe when they saw the signs, others not until after his death, and many never did.

It is an unfortunate part of our human condition that we tend to reject that which is different and unfamiliar to us.

 

[KathleenGee]

Fr John,

My instruction on Mary and her assent at her conception through the Father…she a creation of God the Father and not ours…should be sufficient if not for the affliction fundamentalists have because of the indoctrination done them against Catholicism. God made Mary ever virgin, not us and our personal beliefs.

This specific instruction came from an episcopal appointment who now serves at the Vatican with Pope Benedict. The priest was assigned in turn to correct errors by lay ministers who were not catechizing properly.

 

[FrJohnB]

Fr John,

My instruction on Mary and her assent at her conception through the Father…she a creation of God the Father and not ours…should be sufficient if not for the affliction fundamentalists have because of the indoctrination done them against Catholicism. God made Mary ever virgin, not us and our personal beliefs.

This specific instruction came from an episcopal appointment who now serves at the Vatican with Pope Benedict. The priest was assigned in turn to correct errors by lay ministers who were not catechizing properly.

Kathleen
Please check this site out on Mary Ever virgin. In it you will see that it is the Catholic interpretation of certain scriptures FOLLOWED by early church father that proclaimed the ever virginity of Mary.
catholicmatch.com/articles/details.html?article_id=1403

The first paragraph is telling in how modern theologians are looking at the Marian dogmas.
*“Catholics have always believed that The Blessed Virgin Mary did not experience labor pains in giving birth to her Son. But lately many modern authors, theologians, and even clergymen have challenged that belief, emphasizing instead that, since Mary is human and not divine, Our Lord’s birth was “completely natural” and that Our Lady must have delivered her son in the same way that any other mother would. Therefore, in light of the feast of the Most Holy Name of the Virgin Mary and the feast of Our Lady of Sorrows that were celebrated on September 12th and 15th respectively, the present author undertook to reflect on, research, and answer this question through Scripture, tradition, and Church teachings.” *
Question: why do we look to Mary as Our Lady of Sorrows and knowing that she was fully human but her Son Jesus was fully human and fully divine and not think that she could not suffer some pain of child birth. It is physically impossible to be a virgin and have a baby go through the vaginal canal and not be effected. Now we also refer to nuns as “holy virgins” even if they have had relations with a man because of their chaste status. Let me challenge you to look at how the church has labeled these people in light of Mary and ask if it is at all possible that the virginity that we speak about is her chaste-ness. We speak of Joseph in liturgical prayers as “her most chaste spouse” so where did this come from?

This site goes on BTW to mention that this TRADITION goes back to the first century.

 

[KathleenGee]

I am most interested in learning early Church history…will check it out. There is another discussion on indulgences and early Christian thought that heaven was here…St.Athanasius, St. Catherine said that Christ came to our humanity and we, through Him, came to our divinity…think of the Mormons here…and the desire of various people on CAF to come to the place of truth that we can be one with the Orthodox…

There is much to learn about Mary from earliest times of Christianity…and how I wish as well that Anglo women would come to know her as European Latinas do.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Luke 2:34,35

***"*and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

Are people here (on this thread), “revealing their hearts” by minimizing St. Mary and her important role? What if she had said “No”, instead of, “Let your will be done onto me”?

 

[KathleenGee]

Correct.

Mary was created out of Yes.

 

[sleeping_gecko]

Speaking from a non-Catholic background and (almost certainly) heading into the Church…

A lot of it is fear. Just as non-Catholics rarely (if ever) would take communion daily (many don’t do it weekly, either) out of a (perhaps subconscious) fear of seeming “too Catholic”.

I don’t mean this derogatorily towards fellow non-Catholics.

It’s just that, when you’re taught to look on something negatively your whole formative life, you don’t often wonder why (most of us don’t, anyway).

When I started actually studying Catholicism in general and Marian doctrines in particular, I realized that I couldn’t argue against them using Sola Scriptura. It would be impossible, as an earlier response stated (to the effect of “Nowhere in the Bible does it prohibit loving Mary”).

My father (a Protestant minister) has an extreme aversion to the title of Theotokos, but it’s a reflexive aversion, I think. He would agree that Jesus is God, and that Mary really was His mother, but he thinks of it as “Theotokos” = Mother of God the Father/creator of God, rather than Theotokos=refutation of Nestorian heresy.

So, to summarize and restate:

non-Catholics don’t often think about it. They just are taught to see Catholic devotion to Mary as “different” in a strictly negative way most of the time.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, we know.

It is their form of indoctrination. Not all protestant ministers are that way either.

 

[Saintlucy]

I just felt the need to post the Divine Praises. It shows how much we worship God the Three in One and how much we love and honour Mary our Mother.

The Divine Praises

Blessed be God.

Blessed be his Holy Name.

Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true Man.

Blessed be the Name of Jesus.

Blessed be his most Sacred Heart.

Blessed be his most Precious Blood.

Blessed be Jesus in the most Holy Sacrament of the Altar.

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most holy.

Blessed be her holy and Immaculate Conception.

Blessed be her glorious Assumption.

Blessed be the name of Mary, Virgin and Mother.

Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse.

Blessed be God in his angels and in his saints.

Amen

 

[Jimmy_B]

I just felt the need to post the Divine Praises. It shows how much we worship God the Three in One and how much we love and honour Mary our Mother.

The Divine Praises

Blessed be God.

Blessed be his Holy Name.

Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true Man.

Blessed be the Name of Jesus.

Blessed be his most Sacred Heart.

Blessed be his most Precious Blood.

Blessed be Jesus in the most Holy Sacrament of the Altar.

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most holy.

Blessed be her holy and Immaculate Conception.

Blessed be her glorious Assumption.

Blessed be the name of Mary, Virgin and Mother.

Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse.

Blessed be God in his angels and in his saints.

Amen

Amen

 

[ronin67]

I just felt the need to post the Divine Praises. It shows how much we worship God the Three in One and how much we love and honour Mary our Mother.

The Divine Praises

Blessed be God. (Amen)

Blessed be his Holy Name. (Amen)

Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true Man. (Amen)

Blessed be the Name of Jesus. (Amen)

Blessed be his most Sacred Heart. (Amen, but this is a given due to his devine human state)

Blessed be his most Precious Blood. (Amen, again a given. We know this from him being the “Man-God”)

Blessed be Jesus in the most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. (Amen).

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete. (Amen)

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most holy. (Mother of God the Son)

Blessed be her holy and Immaculate Conception.

Blessed be her glorious Assumption. (Biblical proof? Where is proof of this?)

Blessed be the name of Mary, Virgin and Mother. (Strongly agree)

Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse. (Strongly agree)

Blessed be God in his angels and in his saints. (Yes, forever and ever, amen)

Amen

Well, said.  Many Protestants struggle with the concept of what seems "excessive" venteration of our Holy Mother Mary and I will admit that some Catholics take it a little too far.  Jesus our Lord and Savior should always be the main focus, however we must never forget the most righteous mother who ever lived giving birth to our savior, chosen by God.  Now as far these items, Protestants question because there is no mention of these specifically in the Holy Bible (compiled and presented to the world by the Catholic Church).  Protestants understand the oral traditions and other writtings of the Catholic church, but to them the Holy Bible is the "Checks and Balances" of any other writtings (and for the most part is the case for the Catholic Church also).  So, in light of this, where is the proof of Catholic Doctrine supporting:

1. Mary born without sin? She was a human right (choosing not to sin her whole life, that truly is discipline and total dedication to God our Father!)?
2. Mary’s assumption into Heaven. Seems like this should be something that should have been in the Holy Bible. Why wasn’t it added later? I would hope if other forms of proof for anything (whether it be newly found books or clarifications on exsisting books of the Bible) that should belong in God’s Holy inspired words, it would/should be added (don’t you think?).

Mary without a doubt deserves to be revered as the most Holy woman that ever walked the face of earth. I like that the Catholic Church always remembers her and honors her, but I have to still focus the majority of my attention on God my Father thru my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. After all, by God’s Grace, Salvation is thru his Son Jesus Christ alone, thus in my opinion deserves all of my devotion as a Christian. My opinion as a Catholic who will always have a portion of Martin Luther’s truth in me (My Protestant roots I will never forsake).

May God Bless!

Ed

 

[KathleenGee]

Recently I have been perceiving more and more the presence of ‘the locusts’…these are beings referred to both in Joel and in Revelations…prior, the locusts that devour everything…and in the Lord, all things are restored…and today in Revelations…the locusts being entities of heresy that poison men’s souls…

Mary is the archenemy of Satan. She has great power over Satan and the devils.

I am suspecting more and more that the contention and reactionary spirit, the protesting…it is the work of the locusts on the soul…and one of the first targets is our Blessed Mother…Gentle Mary…look at Anglo American culture and the plight of our women.

How so many women in our culture need Mary, need her companionship, need her support in making them New Eves…