Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[Namesake]

I never said pray to a friend. I said pray “for” someone. SO you’re saying if a loved one was very ill and close to death you don’t want or need anyone to pray for her. Wow! I don’t know what to say.

Oh no, not at all. I am saying that I would never pray to anyone, or anything instead of praying directly to God.

I did jump on a bit late but I’m curious to know if you are a Protestant? I’m asking because Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all accept that Mary was born without original sin and was a virgin.

So? Lots of Protestants do not require the stuff about original sin and virginity.

 

[guanophore]

Ever wonder what was done with the cord and placenta? That could start another church maybe?

I think that’s just ridiculous…I really do. Just way too much magical thinking for me.

Perhaps you have very little understanding of sacred history, and the practices of the Jews. Vessels that were set aside for Holy uses were consecrated to that purpose,a nd it was considered a sacrilige to use them for secular purposes.

A protestant would never pray to a friend.

Sure you do, you just don’t use that word in the old English way that Catholics do. You request their intercession, which is the same thing. Let’s not get hung up on terminology.

Protestants only pray to God. We believe there is no reason to pray to anyone, or anything else, God is sufficient. Maybe our God is more accessible than your God.

Just smaller. If God did not think more was necessary, there would be no communion of saints or church, or New Testament, etc, etc. He told the Apostles to go and baptize, and make disciples. Why would he do this if “God is sufficient”? In fact, we also believe that God is sufficient, but that He chooses to use humans as part of His sufficiency, and we know that the effectual fervent prayers of a righteous person avail much.

God knows everything, right? So why do you think you need help getting His attention?

Because we do not know everything. And because God has chosen to fulfill prayers made by other people.

My God hears me when I pray directly to Him. He doesn’t need to be urged to listen to me or anyone else.

Well. ok. Why are you here?? What else did you expect to find on a Catholic forum, if not Catholic practice?

I think you dilute God when you have so many other intercessors between you and God. If you have an all knowing, all powerful God, what more could you possibly need?

It is not so much how God is, but how we are. God knows that prayer for one another sanctifies us, and that is part of His plan for our lives, that we learn to pray for o ne another, so that we can be healed. He has made the ministry of intercession available to us by His grace. If you don’t want it, you can spurn it, but don’t try to pursuade us to do the same! We are happy with the gift!

 

[Goth_Catholic]

So? Lots of Protestants do not require the stuff about original sin and virginity.

And lots of Protestants go to hell

 

[2ndGen]

Where do we see Mary fleeing into the wilderness and being nourished for 1260 days in the gospel accounts?

It’s believed that Jesus was born around 4 BC.

The Holy Family fled Egypt just after Jesus was born and returned when it was safe for them to return (which was when Herod died in 1 BC).

So, subtract 4 years from just after Jesus was born and you get your 3 1/2 year number (take away the 6 months after Jesus birth, presentation at The Temple + travel time to Egypt).

 

[Namesake]

And you are out of place

Quite right! I came here a very short time ago with the serious thought in mind of converting to Catholicism. After observing how combative and defensive many are here I can’t even come close to joining such a group of…people.

Way too little Christianity and way too much Catholicism for this sinner.

 

[Namesake]

And lots of Protestants go to hell

As do Catholics I suppose.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Quite right! I came here a very short time ago with the serious thought in mind of converting to Catholicism. After observing how combative and defensive many are here I can’t even come close to joining such a group of…people.

Way too little Christianity and way too much Catholicism for this sinner.

Listen to me. If you were really thinking of converting, then the people would have little effect on you. Your judging the herd by the lamb. Many are combative and defencive because we deal with people who are anti-catholic and ignorant on a daily basis.

Go to your local Catholic church or find another message board.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

As do Catholics I suppose.

Of course.

 

[mjg7500]

Why would you ever consider a message board as a factor when contemplating converting to the Catholic Church? I hope you were not serious.

 

[water]

Quite right! I came here a very short time ago with the serious thought in mind of converting to Catholicism. After observing how combative and defensive many are here I can’t even come close to joining such a group of…people.

Way too little Christianity and way too much Catholicism for this sinner.

I’ve read your posts, and I can certainly that you are nowhere near closed to converting to Catholic. That is for sure!

I’ve seen others who come here with the same purpose as you are…the differences they’ve got are how they asked questions and how they wanted to learn.

True humility is the important key to learning and understanding what you want to comprehend.

 

[guanophore]

Basically you are saying that having sex defiles a woman. I reject that in total. Sex does not in any way defile a woman. Furthermore, I do not need an immaculate conception. In fact I think it a little silly to need that for your faith.

And this thread has drifted way too far. Look at the thread title. Just who is it that thinks it is wrong to love Mary?

No, this is not what is being said. What is being said is that it defiles one to take holy things and use them for secular reasons. You can see instances of this in the profanation of the temple furnishings.

Jesus also speaks of those who remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom. Jesus never says that people are “defiled” if they are called to marriage. What He says is that those to whom the gift is given should receive it, as His mother did.

It is good that you did not need an immaculate conception, since you didn’t get one!

In reference to the thread topic, what you are saying is that you have no need of the Womb in the Body of Christ, and that Mary’s role in the New Covenant is superfluous. It is like the eye saying to the hand “I have no need of you”.

Lots of Protestants do not require the stuff about original sin and virginity.

Stuff. Stuff.

This is a sad truth, and is at the base of why we are separated brethren, and not in unity as Christ desired and commanded. Disunity begins and ends with rejecting the teaching of Jesus.

Quite right! I came here a very short time ago with the serious thought in mind of converting to Catholicism. After observing how combative and defensive many are here I can’t even come close to joining such a group of…people.

Way too little Christianity and way too much Catholicism for this sinner.

This is very interesting. I wonder what it says about you that you chose the hottest battleground in the known universe right now about Catholic doctrine to experience the Catholic faith. I wonder what it says about you that you chose to come here and take potshots at Catholics and make disparaging remarks as a method of experiencing Catholic faith.

Of course Catholics are combative and defensive in here! Our faith is under attack by persons such as yourself!

 

[fbl9]

hi namesake did you miss the question i posed to you?in case you did? i’ll answer it for you. no we wouldn’t because it is a holy place. no one even took a shoot at you for the remark you made of the placenta and cord.

 

[cascherman]

“Our” goal? No no no no, “my” goal is defend my mother, if I’ve offend Namesake, it’s no worse then how he’s offended my mother.

Wow. You don’t see a problem with your attitude?

Our faith gets trampled all the time and you are just now offended?! Real Presence, Our Numero Uno doctrine, gets dragged in the mud all the time, and just NOW your are offended?

And yes, our mission is not to get offended and offend back because it makes us feel better… you are alone by me in that mission. Have at it. I’ll be trying to help him understand.

This thread is done in my book.

 

[guanophore]

You are out of line…

Not only that, but justasking4 managed to derail the whole topic, and sucked a number of others (including myself) into his wrongdoing. But, I guess that is his purpose in being here, so kudos!

 

[2ndGen]

A ?

Do you have any Scriptural evidence that states that Mary had sex after she had Jesus?

Eliminate that she was married because there is no proof of a wedding having ever taken place (the bible states that they were just bethrothed and under a betrothal, they could be referred to as husband and wife and it would require a divorce to annul even “if” they had never gotten married, therefore, their being referred to as husband and wife is in no way proof nor is the mention of a divorce having to take place…besides, if they had to be married to get a divorce, why were they living separate when Joseph considered divorcing her).

Eliminate the whole brothers and sisters comments as well. I have dozens of scriptures to prove that they were Jesus’ cousins (the sons of Mary, Mary’s cousin who was also at the cross and who is named as the mother of the two men who are called Jesus’ brothers which in Aramaic also mean cousins…and if you even try to get literal with me, I’ll bring out that peter called 3,000 his brothers. You’d have to believe his mom gave birth to over 3,000 people if you insist on taking the term literally).

So…if He had brothers, why would Jesus break the very Law that He came to fulfill by giving Mary to John instead of to His next oldest brother in line which by The Law, He had to do?

So, mention of marriage and brethren, not proofs.

Quote the Chapter and Verse that states that Mary had sex?

:coffeeread:

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Wow. You don’t see a problem with your attitude?

I just found out I might have cancer, my attitude is the least of my worries.

Our faith gets trampled all the time and you are just now offended?! Real Presence, Our Numero Uno doctrine, gets dragged in the mud all the time, and just NOW your are offended?

I get offended all the time. I also pratice apologetics all the time. Namesake just really ticks me off.
And yes, our mission is not to get offended and offend back because it makes us feel better… you are alone by me in that mission. Have at it. I’ll be trying to help him understand.

This thread is done in my book.

I’ve been trying to help him understand. If you would read some of previous posts you would see my attempts to be patient with him. However, it gets to the point where he clearly does not wish to understand, and the shots he is taking pretty much cause me to stop being nice in the end. I’m not going bend over backwards to be nice to him when he is disrespecting my mother.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Why would you ever consider a message board as a factor when contemplating converting to the Catholic Church? I hope you were not serious.

Why not? Shouldn’t people expect to get right answers here to help them decide if it’s for them or not?

 

[water]

Why not? Shouldn’t people expect to get right answers here to help them decide if it’s for them or not?

I agree with you - As a member of CAF, I have learned more about my own faith as well as why others believe the way the believe.

 

[2ndGen]

A protestant would never pray to a friend…

Whenever a Protestant asks a common man to pray for them (a pastor or friend, etc…), that’s literally praying “to” a friend.

Pray means to request.

To request that a friend prays for you is not wrong.

In fact, Scripture tells us that it pleases God.

Don’t believe me?

Look up the definition for the word “pray”.

 

[cascherman]

I’ve been trying to help him understand. If you would read some of previous posts you would see my attempts to be patient with him. However, it gets to the point where he clearly does not wish to understand, and the shots he is taking pretty much cause me to stop being nice in the end. I’m not going bend over backwards to be nice to him when he is disrespecting my mother.

I am sorry about your situation and I hope it works out, but you need not ‘take it out’ on people who may offend you here. Especially if they do not understand our beliefs and do not hold our beliefs. How can you be mad at someone who does not believe what you do of Mary? I don’t believe you can.