Why is it wrong to love Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimmy_B
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello justasking4,

Sometimes I think your name here should have been just-asking-4-it.:rotfl: As for your questions (which I have already addressed in post # 298), nowhere in the bible is it specifically written that I have to love you, “justasking4” but I guess I have to, if I want to go to heaven, now don’t I? 👍
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello justasking4,

Sometimes I think your name here should have been just-asking-4-it.:rotfl: As for your questions (which I have already addressed in post # 298), nowhere in the bible is it specifically written that I have to love you, “justasking4” but I guess I have to, if I want to go to heaven, now don’t I? 👍
Click to expand...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:knight2:
 
justasking4 said:
When discussing Mary and the marian dogmas its quite easy to get into other discussions about these things. Mary is not the queen of heaven but was the mother of Jesus.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure how I missed this post before . . .
Your statement shows that you are reading the scriptures wearing your “2008 Glasses” when in fact you should be reading the scriptures wearing your “Ancient Hebrew Glasses.” An understanding of Hebrew tradition is of critical importance when reading Sacred Scripture.

Much of what I am about to say is paraphrased from Timothy Gray’s chapter “Scripture’s Revelation of Mary” in the book [Catholic for a Reason](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/Mary is not the queen of heaven but was the mother of Jesus) (highly recommended reading).

In ancient Israel, a special office existed called the *Giberah *or “Queen Mother.” Giberah is literally Hebrew for “Great Lady” but there is no femine form of “lord” (Hebrew: adon) and giberah was gradually adopted for this puprose. This office was necessary because it generally wasn’t the wife of the king that ruled as queen (e.g. King Solomon had 700 wives, which would be queen?). A good example of a Hebrew giberah is Bathsheba.
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right (1 Kings 2:19).
Click to expand...
It is also important to note that it is one of the roles of the giberah to intercede for the people, for the subjects of the king. Bathsheba went to Solomon to intercede for Adonijah. Also, Bathsheba is sitting at the king’s right hand, signifying her importance (Psalm 110:1) (just as Christ sits at the right hand of the Father).

Another passage relating to the giberah:
Proverbs 31:8-9

Also in: 1 Kings 15:2, 2 Kings 12:1, 2 Kings 14:1-2 it is important to note that the giberahs are named along with the king, signifying their importance and the legitimacy of the king’s succession.

Mary is our *Giberah. *As a descendant of David, she legitimizes Jesus’ succession as king.She sits at her Son’s right hand in heaven, interceding on our behalf.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello justasking4,

Sometimes I think your name here should have been just-asking-4-it.:rotfl: As for your questions (which I have already addressed in post # 298), nowhere in the bible is it specifically written that I have to love you, “justasking4” but I guess I have to, if I want to go to heaven, now don’t I? 👍
Click to expand...
No. Your entrance into heaven does not depend on loving me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn’t have anything to do with Mary or the church. What matters is that you have repented of your sins and believed that Christ died for your sins and rose again. See I Corinthians 15:1-4.
 
What troubles most Protestants is that the “Hail Mary” has become by far the most popular prayer among Catholics, rather than the “Our Father”, given by Christ himself.
Code: 
 The "Hail Mary" begins, of course, with words Gabriel spoke to Mary - Biblical. However, the latter part, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death" is not found in scripture. Protestants go directly to Christ, rather than through an intermediary.

  Personally, I don't find this difference all that much to fight over. Thanks to John XXIII and Vatican II most Catholics and Protestants entered into a new relationship 45 years ago which was very refreshing. The old hostility and suspicion all but evaporated. There seem to be people in both expressions of the Christian faith who want to keep such quarrels going. 

  As for me, I don't think Christ worries about all these theological fine points. When he was asked how to inherit eternal life, he said nothing about doctrine but answered with the parable of the Good Samaritan instead. He was a battler against bigotry, and several times selected a Samaritan as the good guy. The Jews despised the Samaritans and their religion. Jesus didn't seem to have trouble with it.
 
************Here is some general information regarding the “Queen of Heaven” of the Old Testament ****************
Click to expand...
**************by Jimmy B (PART ONE)

In Jeremiah 44:8 is about a pagans (not Christians) who were rebuked for, “going after strange gods” (plural). The person referred to as the ‘Queen of Heaven” here (Jeremiah 44:8) is a pagan goddess (I believe one of her many names is “Dianna” none of her names were “Mary”).

The person of, Mary (the Mother of God) of the New Testament (the Christian “Queen of Heaven, in Revelations 12:1-5) is not the same person who is the pagan “Queen of Heaven” of the old Testament (Jeremiah 44). However, I have seen occasions where the Christian Mary is wrongly referred to by some Protestants (not many) as such, at the risk that someone might assume that they have never read the bible.

To try to assert that the “Christian” Mary (in Revelations 12:1-5) is the same person as the pagan Mary (in Jeremiah 44:8) is anti-biblical, anti-Christian and ridiculous. Are there really still people today who believe this stuff? Are there really “Christians” who believe the Jesus way born to a pagan “goddess” (who some refer to as the, “Whore of Babylon”) ? A belief like that would be pretty un-orthodox, to say the least and heretical by any “Christian” standard…

If you one reads **Jeremiah 44**13-23 and Revelations 12:1-5 and were unfamiliar with history and or the bible (in context) and tried to “personally interpret” the bible, they might come to this wrong conclusion.

Jeremiah 44:8

13 Thus will I punish those who live in Egypt, …17 Rather will we continue doing what we had proposed; we will burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out libations to her, as we and our fathers, our kings and princes have done in the cities of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem…
18 But since we stopped burning incense to the queen of heaven and pouring out libations to her, we are in need of everything and are being destroyed by the sword and by hunger.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven and poured out libations to her, was it without our husbands’ consent that we baked for her cakes in her image …
Jeremiah said:

22 The LORD could no longer bear your evil deeds, …
23 Because you burned incense and sinned against the LORD, not obeying the voice of the LORD, not living by his law, his statutes, and his decrees, this evil has befallen you at the present day
.

cintinued on next post. -

**
 
**
“Queen of heaven” (the pagan goddess v.s Mary) PART TWO
Click to expand...
Revelations 12:1-5
**1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. **
**2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. **
**3 Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. **
**4 Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. **
**5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. **
And
Revelations 12:17
17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea. (Revelation (RSV) 12)
**Did you see the part in there about Jesus? **
**Keep in mind that the Catholic Church gave the Protestants their bible.👍 **
**
 
justasking4 said:
No. Your entrance into heaven does not depend on loving me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn’t have anything to do with Mary or the church. What matters is that you have repented of your sins and believed that Christ died for your sins and rose again. See I Corinthians 15:1-4.
Click to expand...
Jesus said that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood you cannot obtain salvation.
 
jkarp said:
I’m not sure how I missed this post before . . .
Your statement shows that you are reading the scriptures wearing your “2008 Glasses” when in fact you should be reading the scriptures wearing your “Ancient Hebrew Glasses.” An understanding of Hebrew tradition is of critical importance when reading Sacred Scripture.

Much of what I am about to say is paraphrased from Timothy Gray’s chapter “Scripture’s Revelation of Mary” in the book [Catholic for a Reason](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/Mary is not the queen of heaven but was the mother of Jesus) (highly recommended reading).

In ancient Israel, a special office existed called the *Giberah *or “Queen Mother.” Giberah is literally Hebrew for “Great Lady” but there is no femine form of “lord” (Hebrew: adon) and giberah was gradually adopted for this puprose. This office was necessary because it generally wasn’t the wife of the king that ruled as queen (e.g. King Solomon had 700 wives, which would be queen?). A good example of a Hebrew giberah is Bathsheba.

It is also important to note that it is one of the roles of the giberah to intercede for the people, for the subjects of the king. Bathsheba went to Solomon to intercede for Adonijah. Also, Bathsheba is sitting at the king’s right hand, signifying her importance (Psalm 110:1) (just as Christ sits at the right hand of the Father).

Another passage relating to the giberah:
Proverbs 31:8-9

Also in: 1 Kings 15:2, 2 Kings 12:1, 2 Kings 14:1-2 it is important to note that the giberahs are named along with the king, signifying their importance and the legitimacy of the king’s succession.

Mary is our *Giberah. *As a descendant of David, she legitimizes Jesus’ succession as king.She sits at her Son’s right hand in heaven, interceding on our behalf.
Click to expand...
If what you are saying here is true why didn’t Jesus or His apostles ever teach such a thing like this? Where in the NT itself do we find Mary by name referred to as a queen?
 
justasking4 said:
If what you are saying here is true why didn’t Jesus or His apostles ever teach such a thing like this? Where in the NT itself do we find Mary by name referred to as a queen?
Click to expand...
Luke 1:28

Chaire (Hail) is not used to refur to anyone unless they are royality. The only other time this greeting appears in the Greek bible is when the soldiers mock Christ saying “Hail the king of the Jews”
 
justasking4 said:
Can someone show me from Scripture where:
1- Jesus commanded anyone to love His mother?
Click to expand...
Love is hardly sincere when commanded. Plug commanded love into your life and see if it really fits; your mother, father, son, daughter, brother, or sister, if they commanded you to love them or any other person, would you sincerely? Prove to us it is wrong to love her and we will stop.
justasking4 said:
2- Did any of the apostles in their writings command or teach Christians to love Mary?
Click to expand...
see the above response.
 
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions, which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Sorry, but I have some bad news for you.

Where did you get this information? The Bible was written and passed down by men. In addition, if you have a KJV, you can thank King James for your particular translation (that is why it is called, the “King James Version” – named after “a man”).

The Bible (“a book on a shelf in your home”) did not miraculously appear there. It (the Bible) was collected, translated from the original languages, put in a specific order, printed and then either sold to you or given to you.

**God inspires the words used the Bible and those words of God instruct people. The Bible is how we learn about God; the Bible is not however, in fact God. **

**You don’t worship your Bible do you? **

You don’t pray to your Bible, do you?

A Bible didn’t die on the cross, did it?

The Bible didn’t create you, did it?

And the Bible didn’t create itself, did it?

I hope all your answers were “No”.

**The Bible was written by a “man’s hand”, by God’s divine will. **
 
justasking4 said:
If what you are saying here is true why didn’t Jesus or His apostles ever teach such a thing like this? Where in the NT itself do we find Mary by name referred to as a queen?
Click to expand...
Luke 1: “The mother of my Lord” i.e. “Queen Mother.” Why the different phrasing? Because by this time, Greek and Aramaic are being spoken in the region as opposed to the Hebrew.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why is it wrong to love Mary?

Below (post# 2) is a letter (prayer) I wrote for Mary. All of my comments in this letter are Biblical, if you are not a Catholic and you do not love Mary, please explain why you don’t (love Mary)? Where is it written, in the Bible that you cannot love Mary?

http://davenation.com/madonnas/found/La_Vierge_au_lys.jpg
Click to expand...
What do you think of those hand positions? And why are they so fair skinned? People from the Middle East are dark, no?
 
justasking4 said:
Not so. The Scriptures have their source in God Himself and He used the catholic to discover the canon of the NT. No man can boast about this since it was all from Christ.
Click to expand...
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions, which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
Click to expand...
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Sorry, justasking4, but I have some bad news for you about the “Good News”, a “Catholic Document”.

Where did you get this information? The Bible was written and passed down by men. In addition, if you have a KJV, you can thank King James for your particular translation (that is why it is called, the “King James Version” – named after “a man”).

The Bible (“a book on a shelf in your home”) did not miraculously appear there. It (the Bible) was collected, translated from the original languages, put in a specific order, printed and then either sold to you or given to you.

**God inspires the words used the Bible and those words of God, instruct people. The Bible is how we learn about God; the Bible is not however, in fact God. **

**You don’t worship your Bible do you? **

You don’t pray to your Bible, do you?

A Bible didn’t die on the cross, did it?

The Bible didn’t create you, did it?

And the Bible didn’t create itself, did it?

I hope all your answers were “No”.

**The Bible was written by a “man’s hand” and by God’s divine will but the Roman Catholic Church is the reason why you have a Bible today, we “gave” it to you. **

Continued –
 
Continued from my last post:

Now here is the truth, I don’t think you want to hear:

The Roman Catholic Church actually collected the books of the Bible, translated the books, titled most of the books, excluded many “books” and put them in order. The Roman Catholic even decided which books were to be called the “Gospels”.

Note: The book of James was originally called the “Catholic book”. Martin Luther did not like that or the book itself and he called it the “book of straw” and wanted to remove it from the Bible, lucky for you, it is still there, the “Catholic Book” is still in your Bible. Don’t take my word for it, look it up.

I know why you can’t or won’t accept the historical fact that the Roman Catholic Church “gave” you (Protestants) the Bible, it is (in my opinion) because if you admit that fact, then it doesn’t make any sense to use a “Catholic Book” to argue against; or “bad mouth” Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic Church, the only “keepers” of the Bible for the first fifteen hundred years of Christianity.

·The Roman Catholic Church collected the books of the Bible
·The Roman Catholic Church translated the books of the Bible (from the original languages)
·**The Roman Catholic Church transcribed and copied the books of the Bible. (for fifteen hundred years, until the advent of the printing press) **
·The Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Popes approve the order of the books of the Bible
·The Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Popes approved the titles of the books of the Bible
·The Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Popes excluded “Books” from the Bible
·**The Roman Catholic Church kept and protected the Bible for the first fifteen hundred years of Christian history **
·**The Roman Catholic Church passed down the Bible and they used it (and use it) to instruct Roman Catholics **

The Roman Catholic Church “gave” you the Bible, as you know it today, period.

Any questions?

Here is a history of the Formation of the Bible, this happens to be a “Catholic” web site but you can obtain this same information from many “Protestant” sites and even find this information in any secular library. 👍
 
justasking4 said:
If what you are saying here is true why didn’t Jesus or His apostles ever teach such a thing like this? Where in the NT itself do we find Mary by name referred to as a queen?
Click to expand...
The writers of the NT did not understand the full import of the Kingship of Jesus, and the meaning of the Davidic Keys. In the last book, written long after the others, we see Jesus identifying himself as the holder of the Keys of David.

The role and meaning of the Queen mother was well known to the Jews, but they were slow to understand how this applied,because He did not take rulership until after his resurrection.

Your problem is that you can’t seem to believe something that you don’t see in the NT. this limits your ability to grasp these concepts.
 
Namesake said:
What do you think of those hand positions? And why are they so fair skinned? People from the Middle East are dark, no?
Click to expand...
I don’t know what enspired the artist of this painting. I would like to think that he was inspired by God. It is a beautiful painting.

The baby Jesus’ right hand positioned, the hand symbol for the Holy Trinity, is common in Catholic Art.

Take Care,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top