Why is Jesus necessary?

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uglygal

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I have been thinking about this alot lately … ultimately why is he necessary?

I have found that he was necessary when I believed God the Father was a nasty vengeful sadistic monster that was willing and waiting at every turn to damn me to hell - Jesus was necessary as the scapegoat of God’s wrath to take the punishment for me and therefore ‘save’ me.

But I know this is a lie - God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know life!

So I am left looking at Jesus and wondering, what was he necessary for? We humans are not depraved and stinky to God. We are not created for hell. We are loved by God and he doesn’t want any of us to go to hell. He isn’t sadistic or a vengeful judge … so what is Jesus necessary for?

Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,
so great is his unfailing love.

For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to the children of men. Lamentations 3 32:33 The Father isn’t vindictive to us, he is corrective of us so that we learn to Love
Why should any living man complain
when punished for his sins? Lamentations 3:39

The Father redeems and saves long before Jesus ever came along

I called on your name, O LORD,
from the depths of the pit.

You heard my plea: “Do not close your ears
to my cry for relief.”

You came near when I called you,
and you said, “Do not fear.”

O Lord, you took up my case;
you redeemed my life. Lamentations 3:55:58

He redeemed my soul from going down to the pit,
and I will live to enjoy the light.’ Job 33:28

I will praise you with the harp
for your faithfulness, O my God;
I will sing praise to you with the lyre,
O Holy One of Israel.

My lips will shout for joy
when I sing praise to you—
I, whom you have redeemed. Psalm 71 22:23

"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.

For I am the LORD, your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43 1:3

and

I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
your sins like the morning mist.
Return to me,
for I have redeemed you." Isaiah 44:22

Or this most beautiful passage about the Father

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.

He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,

he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.

Surely goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever. Psalm 23

Just what did Jesus bring that God the Father had not already given hundreds, or perhaps thousands of years earlier?

Why is he necessary? Don’t tell its for the forgiveness of sins or for redemption as the above verses show its not true.
So i guess my question is, what is Jesus so essential for? 🤷

Thanks 🙂
 
**
But I know this is a lie - God the Father is not like that at all!**

**Of course the Father is not nasty.

That’s why He willingly sent His Son, the Logos, known since the Incarnation as Jesus.**
 
I look at it this way, uglygal.

God’s will is to save. If Christ turns out to be
God/Son of God, surely He understands
why some of the lambs run away from Him,
because of the way that He was presented,
earlier in life.

I figure that if some human beings can
understand why this is so, then God, too,
understands.

All I know is, when I get to the otherside,
I hope that Jesus is sitting in a green pasture,
and that He lets a little sheep come near to Him.
Maybe He will know not to say anything, at first.
Just let the lamb lean against Him, quietly.

For one thing I do know. If He* is* the God/Man,
then He saw and heard everything that I saw
and heard, that drove me from Him. He, above all,
will feel bad about this, for He knows what was
said and done to wound and drive away a little sheep.

Unlike some religious entities, He actually
does see us as an individual. He hears the
little frightened noises of His sheep.
Mostly, He has to sit there and remain silent,
so a little sheep can decide if it is safe to go near Him.
A very young part of me is likey to say to Him
“Are you a bad rat?” They said You were."
And if He is Who He said He was, He is likely to reply
“I’ll let you decide. Would you like to sit here with Me?”
His voice doesn’t sound scarey. So the little sheep
comes closer, sits near Him, and falls asleep.

reen12
 
Well, Gal, in case people were confused, which they apparently were (there was disagreement on whether or not God even provided an afterlife), He brought the clearest demonstration of Gods’ nature and will by His life and teachings and miracles and of His love by laying down His life for mankind and then… raising it up again! Not your average everyday prophet there. Action speaks much louder than words-in Jesus we could touch and feel and interact with God and witness and experience His love in “real life”.

Reen, at times I don’t follow you, but that was beautifully put.
 
uglygal said:
I have been thinking about this alot lately … ultimately why is he necessary?I have found that he was necessary when I believed God the Father was a nasty vengeful sadistic monster that was willing and waiting at every turn to damn me to hell - Jesus was necessary as the scapegoat of God’s wrath to take the punishment for me and therefore ‘save’ me. But I know this is a lie - God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know life! So I am left looking at Jesus and wondering, what was he necessary for? We humans are not depraved and stinky to God. We are not created for hell. We are loved by God and he doesn’t want any of us to go to hell. He isn’t sadistic or a vengeful judge … so what is Jesus necessary for?Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,****** so great is his unfailing love.* For he does not willingly bring affliction****** or grief to the children of men. Lamentations 3 32:33 The Father isn’t vindictive to us, he is corrective of us so that we learn to Love Why should any living man complain****** when punished for his sins? Lamentations 3:39The Father redeems and saves long before Jesus ever came alongI called on your name, O LORD,****** from the depths of the pit.You heard my plea: "Do not close your ears***** to my cry for relief."You came near when I called you,****** and you said, "Do not fear.“O Lord, you took up my case;***** you redeemed my life. Lamentations 3:55:58He redeemed my soul from going down to the pit, ****** and I will live to enjoy the light.’ Job 33:28I will praise you with the harp****** for your faithfulness, O my God;****** I will sing praise to you with the lyre,****** O Holy One of Israel.My lips will shout for joy***** when I sing praise to you—****** I, whom you have redeemed. Psalm 71 22:23"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;****** I have summoned you by name; you are mine.When you pass through the waters,***** I will be with you;****** and when you pass through the rivers,****** they will not sweep over you.****** When you walk through the fire,****** you will not be burned;****** the flames will not set you ablaze.For I am the LORD, your God,***** the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43 1:3andI have swept away your offenses like a cloud,****** your sins like the morning mist.****** Return to me,****** for I have redeemed you.” Isaiah 44:22Or this most beautiful passage about the FatherThe LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.He makes me lie down in green pastures,**** he leads me beside quiet waters,he restores my soul.****** He guides me in paths of righteousness****** for his name’s sake.Even though I walk***** through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]****** I will fear no evil,****** for you are with me;****** your rod and your staff,****** they comfort me.You prepare a table before me***** in the presence of my enemies.****** You anoint my head with oil;****** my cup overflows.Surely goodness and love will follow me****** all the days of my life,****** and I will dwell in the house of the LORD****** forever. Psalm 23Just what did Jesus bring that God the Father had not already given hundreds, or perhaps thousands of years earlier?Why is he necessary? Don’t tell its for the forgiveness of sins or for redemption as the above verses show its not true. So i guess my question is,* what is Jesus so essential for? 🤷 Thanks 🙂
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Please, what is with your abuse of the Deity? As someone who alleges they love God, you sure have a lot of scorn to heap on Father (vengeful? nasty? sadistic?) as well as the Son, which I won’t repeat because it saddens me too much.As for what Jesus was necessary for - of course it’s redemption. God forgives us all because of the merits of His son’s sacrifice, whether it was preemptive because He knew that sacrifice was coming in the future, or after the fact as in our case.
 
What abuse of the deity? please explain … i thought the entire post was beautiful about God.

God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know life

And I’ll repeat this beautiful passage about the Father

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.He makes me lie down in green pastures,***** he leads me beside quiet waters,he restores my soul.****** He guides me in paths of righteousness****** for his name’s sake.Even though I walk***** through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]****** I will fear no evil,****** for you are with me;****** your rod and your staff,****** they comfort me.You prepare a table before me***** in the presence of my enemies.****** You anoint my head with oil;****** my cup overflows.Surely goodness and love will follow me****** all the days of my life,****** and I will dwell in the house of the LORD****** forever. Psalm 23
As someone who alleges they love God, you sure have a lot of scorn to heap on Father (vengeful? nasty? sadistic?)
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no that was heaped onto him by his “friends” when I was taught about Him. It is what I used to believe, but as I said in the original post But I know this is a lie - God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know life!

Thankyou Reen. I always love reading your posts 🙂
 
Well, I do hope that Allah is out of the question for you now… 😃 no more Muslim urgings, I pray.

If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father - Jesus

(you know, something like that in the Bible, I’m not a good quoter or memorizer)

Anyway…that’s why Jesus is necessary, because the FATHER sent Him.
 
uglygal said:
What abuse of the deity? please explain … i thought the entire post was beautiful about God. God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know lifeAnd I’ll repeat this beautiful passage about the FatherThe LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.He makes me lie down in green pastures,***** he leads me beside quiet waters,he restores my soul.****** He guides me in paths of righteousness****** for his name’s sake.Even though I walk***** through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]****** I will fear no evil,****** for you are with me;****** your rod and your staff,****** they comfort me.You prepare a table before me***** in the presence of my enemies.****** You anoint my head with oil;****** my cup overflows.Surely goodness and love will follow me****** all the days of my life,****** and I will dwell in the house of the LORD****** forever. Psalm 23*no that was heaped onto him by his “friends” when I was taught about Him. It is what I used to believe, but as I said in the original post *But I know this is a lie - God the Father is not like that at all! I have found him to be very loving and gentle towards me. He has blessed me so much and healed me in many ways. He has given me and led me to know life!*Thankyou Reen. I always love reading your posts 🙂
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Have you ever heard of something called a backhanded compliment? ‘I love you but others have said xyz horrible things about you’ is a classic example of a backhanded compliment, which is in truth no compliment at all. Called ‘backhanded’ because it contains a slap in the face right along with whatever allegedly nice things it’s saying.

See if you genuinely love someone and genuinely don’t at all believe xyz nasty things that other people say about them, then why even hurt the other person by even mentioning them? It fairly screams of being still uncomfortable in your relationship with that person and still not-quite-sure that they’re really as nice as they seem to be.
 
Dear UglyGal,

Jesus came to tell us about the Father.
Before Jesus we could not know Our Lord as Father or as Son.
Our Father is the Good Father.
He who loves us, protects us, gives the Truth.
Gives us new Life in abundance.
He is Holy.
Holier than the of Holiest of Holies.
He loves Justice, and Mercy.
He rewards beyond measure those who love Him.
He will give to who love Him every good thing
packed down, overflowing,way more than we’ve paid for.

He says:

“My dove, that hides in holes in the cliffs
or in crannies on the terraced hillside,
let me see your face and hear your voice;
for your voice is sweet your face is lovley.”

Jesus came to be our bridegroom
Because He wanted to.
Because He wanted to give us the Father,
the Bridegroom, the Prince, the Lion of Judah,
the Good Shepard, the Lamb who was Slain!

He says:

To know Me is to know the Father.
 
uglygal said:
I have been thinking about this alot lately … ultimately why is he necessary?
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God is both just and merciful. Justice requires payment for sin. In His love and mercy, God sent His Son to pay the price for us, that we may be made worthy of salvation.

To deny Jesus is to scoff at the Father’s greatest act of love for you. How tragic.

If you are sincerely seeking the truth, you will find it. Here’s an idea for you. Rather than trying to reason this out before accepting the truth, accept the truth in obedience first, and then the understanding will come. Here’s an essay from a former protestant who did just that because he struggled with how Catholics view Mary when he first converted.


Obedience, the First and Foundational Virtue
by Bro. Ignatius Mary (a Hermit of St. Michael)

Here’s what Bro. Ignatius says:
I have found obedience to be a salvation. Two examples:
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  1. My Conversion to the Catholic Church: When I finally sat down and took a look at Scripture honestly (and literally) I found that it was the Catholic Church, not the Baptist Church who truly interpreted Scripture literally. (i.e., the Real Presence, the Chair of Peter). When I looked at history I found that, too, the Catholics were right after all. When confronted with these Truths, I had a decision to make. Either obey Truth, or follow delusion—either become Catholic, or remain Protestant. I obeyed the Truth even though I didn’t understand it all.
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  1. My devotion to Mary: Although I was convinced of the authority of the Church, the Real Presence, and all, I was not so convinced about the communion of the saints and the doctrine on Mary. That took a little while longer. But since I knew that the Church had the AUTHORITY to declare these doctrines, I simply OBEYED.
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Was my “belief” from the heart? No. Did I “feel” the devotion to Mary? No. I merely obeyed the Church and believed in the doctrine of Mary and the communion of the saints out of shear cold obedience.
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But then something odd happened. Almost immediately after I obeyed the Church on this and submitted my mind and will to the Church’s teachings, all of a sudden, I began to understand the doctrine. It was almost like magic. I began to “know” what these doctrines were about. In short order I found myself no longer obeying in cold submission, but in understanding also. I had come to understand and to agree with the doctrine through the reason of my mind.
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Still, something was missing—the devotion of my heart. Within one month after the cold obedience, followed by the revelation of intellect given to me to understand (only after the obedience), finally came an understanding of the heart.
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I also highly recommend the Self-Help First Aid from the St. Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling, especially the Seven Steps to Self-Deliverance. It’s time you quit running from Jesus and discover who you are in Christ.
 
Who sees Me, sees the One Who sent Me. John 12: 45

O Lord, I hope not. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

For that would make the Father as off-putting as the Son -
as the Son was chronicled by His followers.

Am in the hope that - that which was written, by His followers -
constitutes a bit of a caricature of Jesus, on occassion.
You know - The loving deity, Who spoke of “fires that never quench.”
And how thinking about doing evil - was as sinful as actually doing same.

And what was “cursing the fig tree” all about? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

Why waste a cursing - on a plant? Was this an out of control deity -
Who got ticked by a figgy pudding?
[Plants - everywhere - be on the alert. A deity might be coming
to your area, soon. Let’s pop out those fruits, or you’re toast too.]



And how about curing the man who had been blind, since birth?
His followers asked “Who sinned? Him or his parents, that he is blind?”
He told them that none of them had sinned, but that he was blind -
so the power of God could be demonstrated.
That’s an acceptable reason - to saddle a human being with blindness, from birth? To make a point?

His disciples asked Him,
“Teacher, who sinned - this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered,
“Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God
might be made visible through him.”

Gee. In any other context, this would be considered “using” another person. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/6.gif

reen12
 
reen12 said:
Who sees Me, sees the One Who sent Me. John 12: 45

O Lord, I hope not. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

For that would make the Father as off-putting as the Son -
as the Son was chronicled by His followers.

Am in the hope that - that which was written, by His followers -
constitutes a bit of a caricature of Jesus, on occassion.
You know - The loving deity, Who spoke of “fires that never quench.”
And how thinking about doing evil - was as sinful as actually doing same.

And what was “cursing the fig tree” all about? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

Why waste a cursing - on a plant? Was this an out of control deity -
Who got ticked by a figgy pudding?
[Plants - everywhere - be on the alert. A deity might be coming
to your area, soon. Let’s pop out those fruits, or you’re toast too.]

And how about curing the man who had been blind, since birth?
His followers asked “Who sinned? Him or his parents, that he is blind?”
He told them that none of them had sinned, but that he was blind -
so the power of God could be demonstrated.
That’s an acceptable reason - to saddle a human being with blindness, from birth? To make a point?

His disciples asked Him,
“Teacher, who sinned - this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered,
“Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God
might be made visible through him.”

Gee. In any other context, this would be considered “using” another person. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/6.gif

reen12
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Yes, but whether or not you separate the God of the OT from the God of the NT you have to admit that God allowed/cooperated in the blindness to begin with. The difference is that the blind man would’ve remained blind had Jesus not healed him.
 
Death is a result of sins. Jesus brought our sins to Himself on the Cross. He died but raised again from the Death - He defeated death and for this we may have the eternal life. As for the Heavenly Father, nothing can show us more of His Love than to have His Beloved Son crucified and died on the Cross.

As the Jews looked up to the bronze snake to be healed, we look up to Jesus’ Cross and believe that He had died for us so that we have hope in the Eternal life.
 
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

The Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity, including his Death and Resurrection, was deemed necessary by God for our reconciliation with God. Jesus came because we needed him to come.

That’s why. All the rest is commentary.
 
quote: uglygal
Thankyou Reen… 🙂
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You’re welcome, good heart.

I think that it is difficult, to near impossible, for
many to understand how one could find rest
in God the Father, without reference to Jesus.

Yet, like any good human father, God takes into
account the experiences of each of His children,
and surely He knows those of His children
who were made terrified of Jesus, and why.

God is a healer. He does not treat each of His children the same.
He relates to them in their woundedness, when called for.
This is why He is a God of mercy.
And I ask Him to extend mercy to those who created this terror to begin with.
Jesus understands.

“Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they are doing.”

reen12
 
Jesus did not strike that man blind.

Jesus did not make the fig tree barren.

These two things were the work of His enemy and ours.

Because even Satan’s free will is not abrogated by his freely chosen emnity with Our Lord.

No one has recorded the blind man’s opinion of his blindness.

“One thing I do know is that I was blind and now I see.”

Was Jesus the evil sabath breaker or not?

Was evil done in healing?

In undoing the reign of Satan?

What would have been more wrong, to curse the barren tree as a sign,or to cut it down, make planks, build a sign, and erect it?

How many trees have been killed for my amusement or comfort or education?

It is a good thing Our Lord loves good and hates evil.
 
As a Father,I know the vengance that I would take on one who harm one of my beloved children.

But the Father says “vengance is mine”.

So I trust thatHe knows better than I how to balance the scales.

Because only He knows all.

About every one.

Only He knows the true depth of emnity.

Only He knows the true repentance of the contrite.

In the end we are all either contrite or full of emnity.

Many are broken and can be made whole only by Him.

Cause He is the maker of all.
 
He drew a circle that shut me out–
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win.
We drew a circle that took him in…
  • Edwin Markham


reen12
 
In the begining was the Word;

The Word was with God

and the Word was God.

He was with God in the begining.

Through Him all things came into being,

not one thing came into being except through Him.

What has come into being in Him was Life,

Life that was the light of men;

and Light shines in the darkness,

and darkness could not overpower it.
 
reen12 said:
Who sees Me, sees the One Who sent Me. John 12: 45

O Lord, I hope not. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

For that would make the Father as off-putting as the Son -
as the Son was chronicled by His followers.

Am in the hope that - that which was written, by His followers -
constitutes a bit of a caricature of Jesus, on occassion.
You know - The loving deity, Who spoke of “fires that never quench.”
And how thinking about doing evil - was as sinful as actually doing same.

And what was “cursing the fig tree” all about? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

Why waste a cursing - on a plant? Was this an out of control deity -
Who got ticked by a figgy pudding?
[Plants - everywhere - be on the alert. A deity might be coming
to your area, soon. Let’s pop out those fruits, or you’re toast too.]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/Figtreeone.jpg

And how about curing the man who had been blind, since birth?
His followers asked “Who sinned? Him or his parents, that he is blind?”
He told them that none of them had sinned, but that he was blind -
so the power of God could be demonstrated.
That’s an acceptable reason - to saddle a human being with blindness, from birth? To make a point?

His disciples asked Him,
“Teacher, who sinned - this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered,
“Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God
might be made visible through him.”

Gee. In any other context, this would be considered “using” another person. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/6.gif

reen12
Click to expand...
I, and apparently the blind man, wouldn’t mind being “used” if it meant the restoration of my sight and giving glory to God to boot. And if withering a fig tree perhaps shows a human side to Jesus that I can identify with, it certainly isn’t a power I can identify with. But when it came to people, withered hands were healed and the dead were raised and leprosy cured and love, compassion, and power all demonstrated at the same time. And what do you really think?-God wants us to be the kind of people who refrain from doing evil while thinking about it all the time anyway? Seems like He’d be promoting hypocrisy. But “Jesus understands”. After all He came for people like me, not to heal the healthy.
 
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