Why is Jesus necessary?

[cheeto1]

so what is Jesus necessary for?

Beautiful Girl,

You are asking what GOD is necessary for, because Jesus is God. Somehow, He was able to get part of Himself into human
form and interact with people as another human.

Jesus isn’t necessary for anything, He just Is. He’s God.

The real question is: what are WE necessary for?
We must be very important, every one…

 

[reen12]

In the ‘Old’ Testament [Former? covenant, Temporary? covenant]
God saves, heals, forgives - and is present to His people.
He offers eternal life with Him, to all who will acknowledge Him
as God Who is One, and follow the natural law - that God gives
to the heart of each human being.

I think that, sometimes, children can be more logical than some adults.

Who made me? God made me.
Why did God make me? God made me to
-know Him
-love Him
-serve Him, in this life
and to be happy with Him in the next.

I’m always interested in reading the fine print.

“This offer void, anno domini…”

“Why?” asks a little kid.

Because you didn’t budget for Original Sin.
Didn’t you read the fine print?

“Oh,” http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif says the little kid.

reen12

 

[LilyM]

In the ‘Old’ Testament [Former? covenant, Temporary? covenant]
God saves, heals, forgives - and is present to His people.
He offers eternal life with Him, to all who will acknowledge Him
as God Who is One, and follow the natural law - that God gives
to the heart of each human being.

I think that, sometimes, children can be more logical than some adults.

Who made me? God made me.
Why did God make me? God made me to
-know Him
-love Him
-serve Him, in this life
and to be happy with Him in the next.

I’m always interested in reading the fine print.

“This offer void, anno domini…”

“Why?” asks a little kid.

Because you didn’t budget for Original Sin.
Didn’t you read the fine print?

“Oh,” http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif says the little kid.

reen12

What about the multiple covenant relationships of Genesis and Exodus?

‘Offer void Anno Abraham’ (gotta get the snip now, folks, even though Enoch and Noah didn’t)? Different covenants with Isaac and Ishmael? ‘Offer void Anno Moses’ (got to fulfil not just the 10 commandments but 600-odd others as well - bet Abraham didn’t do even a tenth of that stuff!). I think your child would raise the same questions about those too.

God’s relationship with His people was subject to change in the OT, not because He changed at all but because humanity did - our understanding of Him and our needs in regards to keeping us on the straight and narrow with Him.

In the NT, of course, God became flesh, taught us of Himself from His own lips and more importantly by His own human life, death and resurrection.

Having then done just about all He could do for us, God now simply requires us to grow in our understanding and acceptance of these awesome events and their myriad implications for us.

 

[reen12]

Catechetically speaking, the Baltimore First Communion Catechism
was like reading The Bobbsey Twins Go to the Beach,
and then - suddenly, at age 8 - out goes the comforting
catechism - that introduced a child to God [which made sense] -
and in comes the Sturm und Drang tone of the Baltimore Catechisms - for older kids.

What happened to God? Who is this Jesus, and why is He telling me that
He loves me and speaking of lakes of fire that last forever?

Combine this, with Sunday Mass, and an elderly Presider,
up in a pulpit, yelling at the top of his voice, about how God
is not pleased with us, and we’re all headed straight for hell.
That kid may likely wish that he/she was anyplace else,
in the universe, but there. A far cry from felt banners -
proclaiming Jesus Loves Us.
By now, this kid may be, literally, in emotional shock.
I know I was.

Blessedly, God “registered.” I could stay with Him and
leave Jesus to those with more hearty nervous systems,
who could ‘process’ all that yelling about love. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/6.gif

reen12

 

[beckycmarie]

Dear Reen and LovelyGal,

This is how much God loves you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

(And I’ll repeat this beautiful passage about the Father

**But Psalm 23 (or 22) is NOT talking about the Father, but is PRECISELY about the Son!

Nobody has ANY knowledge of God the Father outside the work and person of the Son.

You have said elsewhere that the Catholic Church taught you that Jesus is God the Father. This shows that you obviously misunderstood Catholic teaching, because you were NEVER told this.

You have also in the thread “Why I reject Jesus” expressed the idea you were given that if you say the right words in exactly the right way and in exactly the right position, God is supposed to work for you. This, again, is obvoiusly NOT how a mature, well-instructed Christian understands the faith.

Elsewhere you have mentioned an attraction to Islam, talked about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being three separate gods, and an encounter with some spiritual entity that gives you warm fuzzies and makes you feel “loving”–to everyone but Jesus.

Obviously, you are making up something to reject and calling it “Christianity.”

I will say what I’ve said before: The Devil doesn’t care how religious and spiritual you are, as long as he can keep you away from Jesus.

This is why I say you need to take a serious refresher course on Christianity and see what it really teaches, which is clearly not what you are rejecting.**

 

[uglygal]

As for the Heavenly Father, nothing can show us more of His Love than to have His Beloved Son crucified and died on the Cross.

Thankyou for answering my question rather than pronouncing judgment on me can i probe a bit further with this … why? why is the greatest act of love … murder? This confuses me. Why

As the Jews looked up to the bronze snake to be healed, we look up to Jesus’ Cross and believe that He had died for us so that we have hope in the Eternal life

I may be wrong but didn't God later destroy the serpent because the Jews started worshipping it?

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21 8-9

And he [King Hezekiah] did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. 2 Kings 18:3-4

 

[uglygal]

I just want to say that I want to discuss this and listen to what people have to say about this. I don’t want to argue, offend, squabble etc. I want to have a genuine look into why He is necessary.
Thanks

P.S some of you have judged me, so be it! but I would appreciate it if you’d stop proclaiming it everywhere i go

 

[uglygal]

Dear Reen and LovelyGal,

This is how much God loves you.

Did the Father feel that pain or only Jesus? Again I have the question, why? why is this necessary, doesn’t the Father only have to will something and it is done?

Not your average everyday prophet there. Action speaks much louder than words-in Jesus we could touch and feel and interact with God and witness and experience His love in “real life”.

how do we experience Jesus any differently to how we experience the Father now. 2000 years ago people could touch and feel Jesus in real life but we can’t. how do we touch and feel Jesus in real life today, right now? Why was it necessary for a limited number of people to touch and feel God in flesh for a short period of 33 years when the vast majority can’t. I’m trying to understand why.

Thankyou

 

[fhansen]

For me, the God of the OT is vaguer, farther out of reach, and often wrathful, maybe because that’s how He needed to be to deal with humans at the time or perhaps simply because His love wasn’t yet revealed as fully then. In any case, we know less about this God. In Habakkuk, I believe, it’s said that He’s too holy to even look at us. But even then, since the Master seemed more distant, I think it was easier to think we could decide for ourselves what was right or to create Him in our own image or to disbelieve altogether, a state of affairs God’s referring to when He says, “These people pay me lip service but their hearts are far from me.”

But when this God actually lowers Himself to come down here, acting as a servant, living amongst and accepting and forgiving the worst of us, feeling our despair, and having foreknowledge at some point or another that He’ll have to suffer and die as a result of proving, in word and deed, the good news of the kingdom of God and of Gods’ love for us and desire for us to have eternal life with Him, and then proving His word in the most dramatic and unforgettable fashion by the resurrection, I can’t help but think this guy was either the biggest fool in history or the real thing. And if He’s the real thing, who are we to say He should’ve done it differently.

 

[fhansen]

In the ‘Old’ Testament [Former? covenant, Temporary? covenant]
God saves, heals, forgives - and is present to His people.
He offers eternal life with Him, to all who will acknowledge Him
as God Who is One, and follow the natural law - that God gives
to the heart of each human being.

I think that, sometimes, children can be more logical than some adults.

Who made me? God made me.
Why did God make me? God made me to
-know Him
-love Him
-serve Him, in this life
and to be happy with Him in the next.

I’m always interested in reading the fine print.

“This offer void, anno domini…”

“Why?” asks a little kid.

Because you didn’t budget for Original Sin.
Didn’t you read the fine print?

“Oh,” http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif says the little kid.

reen12

I’ll combine and paraphrase some of Jesus’ sayings:
Blessed are the meek, the humble, the down and out, the peacemakers, the misfits, the poor and poor in spirit, those who sacrifice themselves for others, those who choose to love.

And also,
Cursed are the proud, the self-righteous, the selfish, murderers, those who never lift a finger to help others, the rich who exploit the poor, those who use and objectify and bring untold pain to others, those who choose to hate and to reject love and who never, never have a change of heart and turn away from those things even when forgiveness is offered. Those who reject love-who reject God- elect their own fate and will, duh, never know God nor His ineffable love and this will be their torment, their everlasting fire, because nothing can bring an eternal satisfaction to the depths of ones being unless it’s God.

Original Sin merely explains the reason for the existence of injustice-or evil-in the world.

And you’re right, Jesus never denies the need for Gods’ justice, neither does the OT BTW, and His whole criteria for one to be just is this: Love God and love your neighbor. Or, as St Augustine said: Love, and do as you like. If we love, we have nothing to fear-but if we hate, why shouldn’t we?

But it seems you have a problem with this?

 

[uglygal]

Well, I do hope that Allah is out of the question for you now… no more Muslim urgings, I pray.

If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father - Jesus

(you know, something like that in the Bible, I’m not a good quoter or memorizer)

Anyway…that’s why Jesus is necessary, because the FATHER sent Him.

Hi! This is a bit of topic but in your blog are they your babies pictured? If they are they are very beautiful, you must be a proud mum

as an aside, now take that love and multiply it by infinity and you come to some small comprehension of the Father’s love for me and for you … WOW

Just imagine, I a little human being and an absolute stranger look at those little darlings and feel absolute amazement and compassion for them … could I as an imperfect human take one of them and throw them to torments for all eternity? No. these beautiful children are not made for torment but to be loved
I am a child of God. Is it wrong for me to dare think that perhaps the Father feels the same towards me - He who is perfect and all love?

When I think of it this way i think what do i have to fear? Even if i make all the mistakes in the universe all i have to do is say i’m sorry, run to his arms and tell him i love him and the Father won’t abandon me to harm.

If one of your babies was naughty and upset you but was then sorry and came to you with arms wide open, “mum I’m sorry, I love you” wouldn’t your heart be bursting with the desire to forgive them .

That’s a just a thought I had when I looked through your blog

 

[LilyM]

Hi! This is a bit of topic but in your blog are they your babies pictured? If they are they are very beautiful, you must be a proud mum

as an aside, now take that love and multiply it by infinity and you come to some small comprehension of the Father’s love for me and for you … WOW

Just imagine, I a little human being and an absolute stranger look at those little darlings and feel absolute amazement and compassion for them … could I as an imperfect human take one of them and throw them to torments for all eternity? No. these beautiful children are not made for torment but to be loved
I am a child of God. Is it wrong for me to dare think that perhaps the Father feels the same towards me - He who is perfect and all love?

When I think of it this way i think what do i have to fear? Even if i make all the mistakes in the universe all i have to do is say i’m sorry, run to his arms and tell him i love him and the Father won’t abandon me to harm.

If one of your babies was naughty and upset you but was then sorry and came to you with arms wide open, “mum I’m sorry, I love you” wouldn’t your heart be bursting with the desire to forgive them .

That’s a just a thought I had when I looked through your blog

If you say sorry, great. A word of caution - it’s not enough just to say sorry when you offend if you have means to hand that will guide you as to how to avoid giving offence in the first place and you fail to make use of them when you can. And it’s not enough to say sorry half-heartedly if you know you’ll almost certainly go straight out and do exactly the same thing again, that’s not real sorrow. Neither is it enough to say sorry if you have means at hand that will help you avoid future sin and fail to use them when you can.

God has told us, through the Church which is His body, exactly a) what IS wrong and offends Him b) HOW we can best say sorry (through the sacrament of Confession) and c) what we are to do both to avoid sinning in the first place and how best we can ‘go and sin no more’, which is through the aid of the properly-recieved sacraments of penance and Holy Communion.

 

[bpbasilphx]

** I may be wrong but didn’t God later destroy the serpent because the Jews started worshipping it?**

It was one of the kings of Judah, but off the top of my head, I forget which one.

 

[sawman]

Dear UglyGal and Reen,

I am curious, the both of you seem to be expressing a preference for the God of the O.T.

You both also appear to have the opinion that this God is different from and superior to Jesus.
Or
Are you expressing an aggravation with what you were taught about Jesus?

You both appear to consider that Jesus is much more judgemental that the O.T. God. This is curious because in my experience most people see it the other way.

I’m not judging, just trying to understand what you are saying.

 

[reen12]

At one point, the Israelites complained bitterly to Moses
about the food they had to eat. At least in captivity, there
was something other than the manna that God gave them
to eat.

In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents,
which bit the people so that many of them died. [Numbers 21]

---

In antiquity, the Greek physician, Asclepius - who was later thought of as a god,
was represented in statuary - holding a staff with a single serpent twined round it.

homepages.ius.edu/special/pps/images/shield1.jpg

This is known as the Staff of Asclepius - a rod, with a single serpent.

In our day, the logo of the World Health Organization contains a staff with a single serpent,
reflecting the Staff of Asclepius.

healthcare.zdnet.com/images/world-health-organization-logo.jpg

All to do with medicine, in antiquity, was personified by the pagan god, Asclepius.

The parallel is obvious. The One God brings healing - by having Moses hold up
his staff, with the serpent twined round it. Healing was from God.

Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you.
Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, “Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover.” Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered. [Numbers 21]

reen12

 

[happy2bmom]

This is no answer but an embarrassing confession.
I struggle with Jesus too.
I have always known God (as in I cannot remember a time I didn’t know God), prayed to God, thought I understood God. Somehow the way I was taught about Jesus didn’t make sense to me. I actually felt He had come between me and my God instead of bringing me to Him. So, I had/have a lot of the same questions you do and struggle and pray that my inability to understand now doesn’t mean I can’t or never will. I want to “get it” I want to pray to Jesus with the love and confidence I feel with God, but it is awkward. He is still a stranger to me. This is my shame.

 

[uglygal]

Original Sin merely explains the reason for the existence of injustice-or evil-in the world.

And you’re right, Jesus never denies the need for Gods’ justice, neither does the OT BTW, and His whole criteria for one to be just is this: Love God and love your neighbor. Or, as St Augustine said: Love, and do as you like. If we love, we have nothing to fear-but if we hate, why shouldn’t we?

But it seems you have a problem with this?

I don’t think Reen has a problem with this

I was saying before that a mother loves her child. Now lets say I commit a great sin against you - i do something very horrific and awful and I come to you to ask for forgiveness. Would you say, yeah sure, I forgive you but I will only truly forgive you if your sins are atoned for, now i will hand my baby over to a pack of murders so it can be killed and tormented in order to appease me :bigyikes: scary love

or I believe some have put it in another way … according to Christianity God sent Himself to earth to kill Himself in order to appease Himself for the imperfection of the very creatures he created

If you say sorry, great. A word of caution - it’s not enough just to say sorry when you offend if you have means to hand that will guide you as to how to avoid giving offence in the first place and you fail to make use of them when you can. And it’s not enough to say sorry half-heartedly if you know you’ll almost certainly go straight out and do exactly the same thing again, that’s not real sorrow. Neither is it enough to say sorry if you have means at hand that will help you avoid future sin and fail to use them when you can.

I’ve noticed you raise this a few times as if I don’t believe in God’s justice. I do believe in God’s justice.
but perhaps you can help me understand. Why is Jesus necessary for forgiveness and redemption? why is deicide necessary?

I mean this genuinely - help me understand
Thanks

 

[Genesis315]

Eternal life is participation in the divine nature–since only God is incorruptible. So how does corruptible human nature unite with the incorruptible nature of God? It cannot on it’s own become greater than itself, so God united His nature with ours in the form of the Incarnation.

 

[uglygal]

Dear UglyGal and Reen,

I am curious, the both of you seem to be expressing a preference for the God of the O.T.

You both also appear to have the opinion that this God is different from and superior to Jesus.
Or
Are you expressing an aggravation with what you were taught about Jesus?

You both appear to consider that Jesus is much more judgemental that the O.T. God. This is curious because in my experience most people see it the other way.

I’m not judging, just trying to understand what you are saying.

His criteria for judgment …
I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve." Jeremiah 17:10

O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

“Because he loves me,” says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. Psalm 91:14

The LORD redeems his servants;
no one will be condemned who takes refuge in him. Psalm 34:22

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezekial 18:20

But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. Ezekial 18:21

His merciful justice …

I know, O LORD, that a man’s life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.

Correct me, LORD, but only with justice—
not in your anger,
lest you reduce me to nothing. Jeremiah 10:23-24

His life…

love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life Deut:30-20

With me …

The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." Zeph 3:17

The LORD is close to the brokenhearted
and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

A righteous man may have many troubles,
but the LORD delivers him from them all; Psalm 34