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PJM
Guest
Which raises the question of WHY?
JM is “a bible chrsitian” right?
So the reson he HATES is:
God Bless,
Pat
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JM is “a bible chrsitian” right?
So the reson he HATES is:God Bless,
Pat
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Hail_Linus
Guest
The reason John MacArthur is so Anti-Catholic could also be because Evangelicals often accuse him of having a theology similar to Catholics. Evangelicals accuse John MacArthur and his “Lordship Salvation” theology of believing in Faith + Works to earn salvation. Therefore he is often accused of being like the Catholics. He is put into a position where he needs to demonize Catholics in order to disassociate himself from Catholicism. His Lordship salvation teaches you must have faith and also make Jesus your Lord and obey his teaching.
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holliberri
Guest
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BuyTruth
Guest
It’s interesting to read this thread because Catholics commit the same error they claim Protestants do in misrepresenting the other’s beliefs.
It’s hard to say anything negative about Dr. John MacArthur because he preaches right out of the Bible verse by verse. Those that criticize him quickly find themselves criticizing God’s Holy Word. MacArthur is one of the most studied pastors out there who has been faithfully studying and teaching the Bible for over 50 years. He spends between 15-30 hours on his Sunday sermons doing exegetical work. In conferences people drill him with all kinds of stumping Bible questions and he is always familiar with the verse, context, and has an answer. Much of this understanding has come from decades of reading and rereading the Bible.
When Macarthur speaks on Catholicism he is not drawing on hearsay or misunderstandings he grew up being taught. He is too educated to rely on such things, he makes it very clear in his message “The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood” and I quote,
“I’m drawing most of this from a book by Ludwig Ott, it’s called Catholic Dogma, it is one of their own systematic theology books which I’ve read through the years.”
Surely those that think MacArthur misrepresents Catholicism are not arguing with Ott’s representation of Catholic theology.
MacArthur embraces the teaching of the apostle Paul who writes of the severity of misrepresenting the gospel in Galatians. Anyone who changes the gospel of salvation is unbiblical, accursed, and opposed to God. In other words, they are denying God’s truth of salvation and thus have aligned themselves with Satan. This is the reason in Matt 16 why Jesus tells Peter “Get behind me Satan” because his words stood in opposition to Jesus going to the cross. So if John MacArthur or any other student of God’s Word reads Catholic teaching right out of the Catechism, Council of Trent, or Ott’s teaching on Catholic theology, they see very clearly that Roman Catholicism has set itself opposed to the biblical gospel of salvation. Any teachings that oppose God are demonic and often embraced by cults, pagan teachings, and false world religions opposed to true Christianity.
I’d encourage anyone who thinks MacArthur is in error to actually hear our his biblical concern for Catholic teaching (gty.org/search/catholic) and investigate the biblical references he puts forward and the teachings of Roman Catholicism that oppose them. Catholics, love to argue with everything but the Bible, (i.e. He’s went to Bob Jones, he’s reformed, he is a 5th generation antiCatholic, etc) but I would encourage you to study the issues for yourself and note the facts at hand. MacArthur isn’t greatly concerned about Roman Catholicism because of feelings or hearsay but rather because of their black and white teachings which have set themselves opposed to God’s Word.
It’s hard to say anything negative about Dr. John MacArthur because he preaches right out of the Bible verse by verse. Those that criticize him quickly find themselves criticizing God’s Holy Word. MacArthur is one of the most studied pastors out there who has been faithfully studying and teaching the Bible for over 50 years. He spends between 15-30 hours on his Sunday sermons doing exegetical work. In conferences people drill him with all kinds of stumping Bible questions and he is always familiar with the verse, context, and has an answer. Much of this understanding has come from decades of reading and rereading the Bible.
When Macarthur speaks on Catholicism he is not drawing on hearsay or misunderstandings he grew up being taught. He is too educated to rely on such things, he makes it very clear in his message “The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood” and I quote,
“I’m drawing most of this from a book by Ludwig Ott, it’s called Catholic Dogma, it is one of their own systematic theology books which I’ve read through the years.”
Surely those that think MacArthur misrepresents Catholicism are not arguing with Ott’s representation of Catholic theology.
MacArthur embraces the teaching of the apostle Paul who writes of the severity of misrepresenting the gospel in Galatians. Anyone who changes the gospel of salvation is unbiblical, accursed, and opposed to God. In other words, they are denying God’s truth of salvation and thus have aligned themselves with Satan. This is the reason in Matt 16 why Jesus tells Peter “Get behind me Satan” because his words stood in opposition to Jesus going to the cross. So if John MacArthur or any other student of God’s Word reads Catholic teaching right out of the Catechism, Council of Trent, or Ott’s teaching on Catholic theology, they see very clearly that Roman Catholicism has set itself opposed to the biblical gospel of salvation. Any teachings that oppose God are demonic and often embraced by cults, pagan teachings, and false world religions opposed to true Christianity.
I’d encourage anyone who thinks MacArthur is in error to actually hear our his biblical concern for Catholic teaching (gty.org/search/catholic) and investigate the biblical references he puts forward and the teachings of Roman Catholicism that oppose them. Catholics, love to argue with everything but the Bible, (i.e. He’s went to Bob Jones, he’s reformed, he is a 5th generation antiCatholic, etc) but I would encourage you to study the issues for yourself and note the facts at hand. MacArthur isn’t greatly concerned about Roman Catholicism because of feelings or hearsay but rather because of their black and white teachings which have set themselves opposed to God’s Word.
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ravelov
Guest
That is extremely insightful… thank you!
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AmateurPianist
Guest
Well I go to an Assemblies of God church and have been Charismatic/Pentecostal all of my life.
If you do the research you will find that John MacArthur is just as much anti “us” as he is anti “you”.
Nevertheless I regard him as a brother in Christ who is just - well wrong. I don’t have an obsession with him being “anti-Charismatic/Pentecostal”.
Whether he would regard me as a brother in Christ is kind-of debatable.
If you do the research you will find that John MacArthur is just as much anti “us” as he is anti “you”.
Nevertheless I regard him as a brother in Christ who is just - well wrong. I don’t have an obsession with him being “anti-Charismatic/Pentecostal”.
Whether he would regard me as a brother in Christ is kind-of debatable.
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PJM
Guest
***My DEAR FRIEND in Christ;
The problem lies in two critical and indispuitable areas.
- An Overt lack of charity. If the Bible teaches ANYTHING it the ABSOLUTE NEED TO LOVE.
- It not what John READS that is the source of ERROR; Rather what JOHN THINKS it means
***
**2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 ** “For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word made more sure. ***You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. ***First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
**Matt.13:9-12 **“He who has ears, let him hear." Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.” For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “ Jesus here is Speaking to the 12 Catholic Apostles; many of whom are authors of the NT
**Eph.3: 9 to 12 ** “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church **[SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church]/**B] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him. [Please ask me why I know this]
Nowhere from the first word to the last word in the Bible can one find evidence that GOD ever desired more than One God; One Faith and One Church. The NT alone has over 100 references supporting this FACT.
Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism,
one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Eph. 2: 18-22 “ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
**John.10: 16 **“And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. ***So there shall be one flock, one shepherd” ***
John 17:18-24 ""As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. [MEANS WITH THE REAL POWERS & Authority of Jesus Himself now rest in His CC[/COLOR]] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
Sadly Johns way does NOT agree with God’s way
God Bless you,
Pat
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David_Castlen
Guest
AS Bishop Sheen said, people hate what they THINK the Catholic Church is… the thing about such folks is that they have no idea what the Catholic Church really is… in fact they have no idea what we really believe in.
IF they did, they would leave their wrong beliefs behind and join the Church that Christ truly established.
:thumbsup:AMEN!!! One of my problems currently with a protestant is his belief that we (Catholics) believe that we resacrifice Christ at every Mass. I told him “…no, we go back in time to the evernt without blood…” he said that “…well, you (Catholics) have changed your dogma…but you all used to believe that Chirst is resacrificed…” I am currently looking for documentation that the Faith did not ever believe we resacrificed Christ but that it is a representation… I need the earliest date that this was understood (34AD?)?
Can you help?
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David_Castlen
Guest
***My DEAR FRIEND in Christ;
The problem lies in two critical and indispuitable areas.
2 Peter 3: 14 –17 "Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures
- An Overt lack of charity. If the Bible teaches ANYTHING it the ABSOLUTE NEED TO LOVE.
- It not what John READS that is the source of ERROR; Rather what JOHN THINKS it means
Excellent, PJM:thumbsup:
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Izdaari
Guest
Yeah, me too, fellow AG member here.
I have a MacArthur Study Bible (NASB) amongst my collection, and though I’m glad I have it, JM drives me up the wall sometimes with his ultra-dogmatic, “my way or the highway” approach. And he’s flat out wrong about so much of it, beginning with (IMHO of course) YEC! Yeah, he knows a lot and is a pretty good teacher… when he’s not just wrong and when he’s not just pig-headed! I really don’t worry too much about Johnny Mac thinks.
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Tony888
Guest
For someone who is that well educated on theology, I think it is bigotry instead of ignorance.
And it is sad
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Cheshangle
Guest
When I returned to England and met a very snide couple, I said to my wife, “why do they have to be like that?” and she replied, “because of their conditioning”. Thatt would seem to apply to Macarthur. And yes, because of his education, too. He was indeed at the anti-catholic Bob Jones College, an institution which bestowed a doctorate on the vehemently anti-catholic “Rev” Ian Paisley.
But why worry? Ironically, can I quote a very Protestant writer, John Bunyan:
"Whoso best him round
"With dismal stories
"Do but themselves confound
“His strength the more is”.
That’s what I found in my previous forum, assailled by the rantings of anti-theists and foaming Protestant fundamentalists.
Let Macarthur, Paisley and others of their misguided ilk rant away. It profiteth them nothing.
.
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Cheshangle
Guest
It is ignorance and worse. They don’t want the truth.
But to be fair, I’ve come across anti-Anglicanism based on ignorance. We are not “pro-divorce”, not pro-abortion on demand, nor do we regard the mass as anathema (the last accusation was one I saw in a letter from someone in the north to the Irish Independent. Both RCs and Protestants congratulated me on my reply).
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Victor_Francis
Guest
There it is… the man would have to admit that his Dad and his Grandpa were wrong… that’s the man’s heritage… That’s not easy to do. So, like a previous poster said, his only option is to vilify the Church… to place hatred thereof on an emotional level rather than on a spiritual and rational level. That’s sad. I see it all the time… if you see an argument between a well-prepared Catholic (of which there are too few… I’m not one of them yet) and a well-prepared anti-Catholic… it always ends up in an attack of the Church or the “papacy” as being evil or something along those lines because the Truth speaks for itself and cannot be denied rationally… only emotionally.John…is a 5th? Generation UBER Reformed Baptist Pastor…the “simple” answer…it is VERY ingrained in him…some people…Pastors…“Dynastic” Pastors…like I say I think he is 5th…or he has Uncles who were also of this mindset…from CHILDHOOD…he was indoctrinated in ANTI-CATHOLOCISM…and a pretty rabid form…more Dangerous than a Jack Chick…Why?..He IS SMART…well spoken well educated…I have NEVER TRULY met a Catholic…who lost faith over Chick you cant take him seriously! John Mac…Major Church…Top Selling Study Bibles…TV and Internet…he HAS done damage…it is sad!
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PJM
Guest
Hmmmm
***I’m not so sure its either of those?
I’m rapidly comming to understand that Without Gods TRUE [singular] Faith; that a natural consequece of holinf to false beliefs is a lack of Godly Wisdom and Understanding; which are the fruits of true faith.
To be clear they don’t understand BEXAUSE God does not permit them too. This theory is supported by the Bible.***
2 Peter 3: 14 –17 14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures
**2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 **“For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word made more sure. ***You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. ******First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”***Matt.13:9-12 “He who has ears, let him hear." Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, ***but to them it has not been given.” ***For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “
**Eph.3: 9 to 12 **“And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church BECASUE IT WAS THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN EXISTENCE WHEN THESE WORDS WERE WRITTEN] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him. “
** 2nd. Tim. 3:16 **All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work
The Enthusiasm with which he shares these difference of opinions though seems to me to be very much unChristian and a near complete lack of charity.
:tsktsk:God Bless,
Pat
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Tony888
Guest
PJM, if I didn’t know better I might think you a Calvanist, claiming we have no free will and all is pre-ordained. I would agree the Holy Spirit is not truely with them, evidenced by the hate they express.Hmmmm
***I’m not so sure its either of those?
I’m rapidly comming to understand that Without Gods TRUE [singular] Faith; that a natural consequece of holinf to false beliefs is a lack of Godly Wisdom and Understanding; which are the fruits of true faith.
To be clear they don’t understand BEXAUSE God does not permit them too. This theory is supported by the Bible.***
2 Peter 3: 14 –17 14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures
**2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 **“For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word made more sure. ***You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. ******First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”***Matt.13:9-12 “He who has ears, let him hear." Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, ***but to them it has not been given.” ***For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “
**Eph.3: 9 to 12 **“And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church BECASUE IT WAS THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN EXISTENCE WHEN THESE WORDS WERE WRITTEN] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him. “
** 2nd. Tim. 3:16 **All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work
The Enthusiasm with which he shares these difference of opinions though seems to me to be very much unChristian and a near complete lack of charity.
God Bless,
Pat
A
AmateurPianist
Guest
Just one comment on a big pet peeve of mine. That being the word hate…
…which is bandied about in all to much looseness now.
I am being told by assorted sources that I hate gays and lesbians because I believe that same-sex sexual relationships are outside of Gods design.
Once more…
- Just because I may believe and teach that a certain activity is outside of God’s design, it does not mean I hate those that practice this activity. Even if my belief and teaching is wrong…
- Just because I believe and teach that a certain religious organization is wrong, it does not not mean I hate those within this organization. Even if this belief and teaching is wrong.
- Even if I believe and teach those that practice a certain activity or are a part of a certain organization are eternally condemned, it does not mean that I hate those that practice this activity or are a part of this organization. Even if this belief and teaching is wrong.
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Izdaari
Guest
Right. I know of no evidence that Johnny Mac is a hater. But he sure is wrong a lot.
P
PJM
Guest
WOW Tony how did you [or me for that matter] accompliash such a conclusion?
1
1voice
Guest
I agree. From his point of view he is sincerely thinking that he is believing and doing the right thing. I think that he is sincerely confused and wrong headed in his words and actions toward Catholics. He would do well just to preach the truth of the gospel, as so many good men of God are doing … and leave the judging to God.
His attitude does serve a purpose though. I have run into more than a few Catholics that have the same attitude that John McArthur has … toward Christians of other denominations.
It illustrates how needlessly destructive Christians can be toward each other at times. If it creates pain and needless division in one direction … it does the same in the other direction as well. Why cant we all just get along? LOL !
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