Why is John's gospel so different from the other Gospels?

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Hi,

This came up in another thread that I had started and wanted to pursue it further under a different topic.

And another question if I may. Some peeps say that John did not write the Gospel, the Tradition of the Church says he did. I am going with the Tradition of the Church in this one, but how do they get he did not write the Gospel?

Thanks. God bless.

Little One0307
 
I don’t have a helpful answer, not in the slightest. I do think John though is one of my favourite Gospel books. It is the one I often go to when I’m nervous/anxious. One of the first I read returning back to the church.

Perhaps there is an interesting answer. But like you, I’m with the Church on the matter.
 
John’s gospel was written last. He was an old man, and the Church was already well established. The other gospels were likely already well known. I see the fourth gospel as a sort of final theological reflection by one who has lived long enough to integrate the meaning of the stupendous events which he lived through in his youth.
 
Hi,

This came up in another thread that I had started and wanted to pursue it further under a different topic.
I would say that the differences between John’s gospel and the synoptic gospel can be summarized in the following ways:

1) Writing Style: John was not only an evangelist, but also a great Christian mystic, possibly the first. His gospel is harder to read and comprehend than the synoptic gospels because he perceived Jesus and his teachings in a mystical way, and it is hard to convey a mystical experience in writing.

2) Artistic License: Whereas the synoptic evangelists also did this from time to time, John did it to a greater degree. For example, John changes the time of the crucifixion to correspond to the moment that the lambs in the temple were being slaughtered for the Pentecost meals. This was the use of artistic license to emphasize that Jesus was the Lamb of God (a very strong theme throughout John’s gospel). In terms of historical accuracy (i.e., “On what day did the crucifixion happen?”), Jesus was probably crucified after the Pentecost meal was completed, as conveyed in the synoptic gospels. As a side note, the use of artistic license within the gospels does not indicate inaccuracy in terms of the spiritual truths they describe. Artistic license was as much an aspect of teaching in the ancient world as it is today.

3) Deeper Meaning of Catechisis: The synoptic gospels predate John and lay the foundation for catechisis. In other words, they tell who Jesus is, what Jesus taught, and how we have salvation through his sacrifice. John takes things to the next step in helping us to appreciate the deeper meaning. For example, the synoptics tell us of the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper, but not much else in terms of Eucharistic theology (aside from the profound experience of the disciples in Emmaus who came to recognize Jesus in the “breaking of the bread”). John, however, gives us a greater explanation of what the Eucharist is (in the Bread of Life discourse of the sixth chapter) and then intentionally skips the description of the institution of the Eucharist in his gospel. Why did he skip it? Because that had already been done by Paul and the synoptic gospels - the basic catechetical work had already been done. John, rather, tells us of Jesus washing the apostles’ feet at the Last Supper (and is the only evangelist to do so). John already explained what the Eucharist is (6th Chapter) and now wants to underscore what the Eucharist is for. It is to be our source of power and guidance in living lives of loving Christian service to others. Of course, the Eucharist is more than just this, but Christian service is a major theme for John.
And another question if I may. Some peeps say that John did not write the Gospel, the Tradition of the Church says he did. I am going with the Tradition of the Church in this one, but how do they get he did not write the Gospel?
Simply put, the Forth Gospel is anonymous, and therefore the question of its authorship is open to debate. Scripture scholars will debate just about everything. It’s like asking a room full of economists to describe the state of the economy.
 
Some believe that Matthew, Mark and Luke used a common document, known as Q source. Others say that Matthew and Luke used Marks gospel. Another possibilitily is simply who each author wrote to. As I understand it John wrote his gospel to Christians whereas the other three were evangelistic.
 
It seems to me that St. John’s Gospel is different because it is a fleshing-out of a story which was then fifty or sixty years past. He does not change or update anything; indeed, he seems to fulfill and smooth all the edges. The Christians had been spreading our holy religion for almost two generations already.

St. John seems to have known that much had been left out in the early, more ‘skeletal’ (theologically-speaking) Gospels. They were probably created as quickly as possible, so as not to lose essential details in the early years. Perhaps the more weighty stuff was not developed by Matthew, Mark, and Luke because of their passion in following the Holy Spirit, getting the New Covenant spread quickly. Once its spread and growth were firmly established, St. John moved forward with his glorious account in order to fill the last ‘holes’ (meant with greatest respect).

The Gospels are complete in themselves, but all four create a chain of beauty whose constituent links enrich each other. After the description of St. Thomas’ encounter, notice that St. John says “Jesus did a lot more than what I’ve written here”; obviously, this is a reference to his beloved fellow-evangelists and brethren, Matthew, Mark, and Luke! 😃
 
John’s gospel was written last. He was an old man, and the Church was already well established. The other gospels were likely already well known. I see the fourth gospel as a sort of final theological reflection by one who has lived long enough to integrate the meaning of the stupendous events which he lived through in his youth.
That’s an excellent way to view it. Mark was written quickly, in a time of great tribulation. Matthew followed off Mark and Luke was written by someone who was trained by an apostle but not an apostle himself. Whereas John was written by an eye witness. Jesus’ beloved apostle, after years of evangelizing and reflection. He had time to write his, time to reflect on everything that had happened and time to truly absorb. The others didn’t (not so much).

I like this idea! 👍
 
John’s Gospel is thought to be the latest one written as it includes deeper descriptions of Christian doctrine, possibly in an attempt to fend off growing heresies that took greater license with the less-descriptive portions of the other three Gospels.

As far as authorship, remember that the Church traces its line to the Apostles and so there are oral and extra-biblical traditions (such as Paul’s being martyred by Nero) that are not found in Scripture but have survived to this day.
 
Mark was written the Roman audience. Mark was the first Gospel to be written.

Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. Matthew contains much of what was in Mark.

Luke was written for a Greek audience.

And John is so different because it was written for Christians. It is like a love letter to believers. It is the most theologically developed of the four Gospels. John 6 is a clear explanation of the eucharist.

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scriptures has this:

The Evangelist himself declares his aim, ‘These things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have life in his name’, 20:31. He wrote, not so much to convert as to confirm the belief of those who already believed ‘that you may keep believing’ (πιστεύοντες ). The Gospel was mainly meant for Christians. These were not Jewish Christians, otherwise it would not have interpreted simple Jewish terms such as Messias and Rabbi. The Jews John has in mind are not readers, but the hostile mass of the Jewish nation who rejected the Messias.
 
John’s Gospel is thought to be the latest one written as it includes deeper descriptions of Christian doctrine, possibly in an attempt to fend off growing heresies that took greater license with the less-descriptive portions of the other three Gospels.
yep! Indeed, C.A. Radio had a nice little program on it this month, you can listen to the archive of it here!

peace,
 
Mark was written the Roman audience. Mark was the first Gospel to be written.

Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. Matthew contains much of what was in Mark.

Luke was written for a Greek audience.

And John is so different because it was written for Christians. It is like a love letter to believers. It is the most theologically developed of the four Gospels. John 6 is a clear explanation of the eucharist.
I think that this is a good synopsis of the differences between the four Gospels. John has a much more “developed theology” such as about the divinity of Jesus. Regarding the original question, current Catholic thought does NOT assign authorship of the Gospel as we have it today to the Apostle John, and that it may instead be a later “edition” of an earlier writing. The introduction to the Gospel of John in the NAB says this (my underlining):
Critical analysis makes it difficult to accept the idea that the gospel as it now stands was written by one person. John 21 seems to have been added after the gospel was completed; it exhibits a Greek style somewhat different from that of the rest of the work. The prologue (John 1:1-18) apparently contains an independent hymn, subsequently adapted to serve as a preface to the gospel. Within the gospel itself there are also some inconsistencies, e.g., there are two endings of Jesus’ discourse in the upper room (John 14:31; 18:1). To solve these problems, scholars have proposed various rearrangements that would produce a smoother order. However, most have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were added to a shorter original.
Other difficulties for any theory of eyewitness authorship of the gospel in its present form are presented by its highly developed theology and by certain elements of its literary style. For instance, some of the wondrous deeds of Jesus have been worked into highly effective dramatic scenes (John 9); there has been a careful attempt to have these followed by discourses that explain them (John 5; 6); and the sayings of Jesus have been woven into long discourses of a quasi-poetic form resembling the speeches of personified Wisdom in the Old Testament.
The gospel contains many details about Jesus not found in the synoptic gospels, e.g., that Jesus engaged in a baptizing ministry (John 3:22) before he changed to one of preaching and signs; that Jesus’ public ministry lasted for several years (see the note on John 2:13); that he traveled to Jerusalem for various festivals and met serious opposition long before his death (John 2:14-25; 5; 7-8); and that he was put to death on the day before Passover (John l8:28). These events are not always in chronological order because of the development and editing that took place. However, the accuracy of much of the detail of the fourth gospel constitutes a strong argument that the Johannine tradition rests upon the testimony of an eyewitness. Although tradition identified this person as John, the son of Zebedee, most modern scholars find that the evidence does not support this.
It is highly unlikely that any of the Gospels were written by disciples who were eyewitnesses to the actual events, but were based on traditions and stories passed down orally or, in some instances, in a prior writing. A good example of this is the Gospel of Luke, which states in the beginning that it is a compilation of information “handed down to us”, not an eyewitness account nor written by one of the original Apostles.
 
It is highly unlikely that any of the Gospels were written by disciples who were eyewitnesses to the actual events, but were based on traditions and stories passed down orally or, in some instances, in a prior writing. A good example of this is the Gospel of Luke, which states in the beginning that it is a compilation of information “handed down to us”, not an eyewitness account nor written by one of the original Apostles.
The author of John SAID he was an eyewitness.

If you don’t believe that, then what DO you believe in the Book of John?!
 
The author of John SAID he was an eyewitness.

If you don’t believe that, then what DO you believe in the Book of John?!
Is this the statement to which you are referring?
It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true.
If you read the comments from the NAB in my first post and if you read the notes about this line and this chapter in John 21 of the NAB, you will see that the Church apparently disagrees with you.

Plus, this appears to be the statement of someone who is attesting to the words or writings of another person, not his own. It is like the person making this statement is giving an oath that says what is written there is an accurate representation of what they were TOLD, by someone else (probably a Christian disciple named John).

As to what I believe in the Gospel of John, I can say that I generally see it the same way the Church does.

I understand that for some people it is problematic if the Gospels were not “written” by one of the first Apostles, since that is what “tradition” teaches. But unfortunately, tradition can be wrong, and the great majority of bible scholars, including Catholic scholars, hold the position that we don’t know who the authors of the Gospels were. Raymond Brown, probably the most respected Catholic Scripture Scholar of the past 50 years says quite plainly, “the view that the evangelists were not themselves eyewitnesses of the public ministry of Jesus would be held by about 95% of contemporary bible scholars.”

So what I say is not my wild, heretical opinion, but is based on the teachings of Catholic Bishops and Catholic scholars. In other words, it is a recognized belief today in the Catholic church.

“You are now leaving the 16th century…welcome to the 21st century.”
 
=Little One0307;7889822]Hi,
This came up in another thread that I had started and wanted to pursue it further under a different topic.
And another question if I may. Some peeps say that John did not write the Gospel, the Tradition of the Church says he did. I am going with the Tradition of the Church in this one, but how do they get he did not write the Gospel?
Thanks. God bless.
Little One0307
John is the "Great Lover:; the favorite of Jesus because of his [John’s] purity of mind, heart and soul.

John was also one of the three “Insiders” [Peter, James and John], and the Only Apostle saved from Martyrdom. They attempted to Boil him in Oil; But God saved Him. He also became the LAST Living Apostle and His Gospels focus on the Sacramental Aspects of the Church and God’s Ministery. His writtings are highly evident of the LOVE and all of it’s manifestations bt Christ and what God expects of us.

It’s my favorite book in the NT 👍

God Bless,
Pat
 
To All,

Thanks guys for your replies. I liked Pitts comment about it being a love letter to believers. Yeah, suprisingly out of the Apostles, John has to be my favorite. And his Gospel is truly a masterpiece and a huge blessing. Where would we be without John 6? 🙂

God Bless.

Little One0307
 
If you read the comments from the NAB in my first post and if you read the notes about this line and this chapter in John 21 of the NAB, you will see that the Church apparently disagrees with you.
The footnotes of the NAB do not speak for the Church. They are a possible interpretation, and your statement on that should be no more sweeping than his.
Plus, this appears to be the statement of someone who is attesting to the words or writings of another person, not his own. It is like the person making this statement is giving an oath that says what is written there is an accurate representation of what they were TOLD, by someone else (probably a Christian disciple named John).
Dr.John Bergsma has commented that this passage, as well as the third person narrative used throughout, was a common literary technique of the time even if the author was the one providing the narrative himself. Even if this were not the case, at best this only shows evidence of a redactor, much as if one accepts Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, Moses cannot write of his own death and so Joshua traditionally filled in the gap. Another possible explanation is that the Gospel was dictated, which was indeed the case (traditionally) with St. Paul, and is quite conceivable when you consider that St. John would have been quite old at the composition date of the Gospel.
As to what I believe in the Gospel of John, I can say that I generally see it the same way the Church does.
No. You see it as a certain wing of liberal theologians *within *the Church. This is a crucial difference.
I understand that for some people it is problematic if the Gospels were not “written” by one of the first Apostles, since that is what “tradition” teaches. But unfortunately, tradition can be wrong,
Not just tradition. The *unanimous *tradition of any ancient Christian source referring to the canonical gospels states that they were written by the traditional authors. This should theoretically have a great deal of weight for a Catholic.
and the great majority of bible scholars, including Catholic scholars,
Why would a non-Catholic scholar have any bearing on a Catholic book?
hold the position that we don’t know who the authors of the Gospels were. Raymond Brown, probably the most respected Catholic Scripture Scholar of the past 50 years says quite plainly, “the view that the evangelists were not themselves eyewitnesses of the public ministry of Jesus would be held by about 95% of contemporary bible scholars.”
Fr. Raymond Brown’s scholarship was excellent, and it is also out of date. The recent surge in Catholic scholarship has chosen to regard tradition with its proper authority. I don’t think that you are giving enough credence to the fact that historical criticism was an outgrowth of german rationalism and the fact that since protestants had severed themselves from tradition as an historical/interpretive hermeneutic, they needed to turn to other methods to study the Bible. A good deal of historical criticism deals with theoretical postulations based off of zero evidence. Q cannot be found, definitions of Q differ, the heavily favored view that Paul essentially hellenized Jewish belief has been abandoned, and there is zero evidence for a “johannine community,” etc. Entire postulations have been built around statements found by Eusebius about a “John the Elder,” when the passage itself may be ambiguous and refer to John the apostle and there may not in fact be multiple Johns. And yet this one fuzzy point has served as the basis for far-flung theories that strain desperately not to accept the tradition that John the Apostle wrote it.

Fr. Raymond Brown may have been correct when he gave the 95% figure at the time, although his lack of numbers and citations leads me to believe it is a rhetorical statement. However, this is not only no longer true, it also fails to take into account that Fr. Raymond Brown even at the time of this remark was not referring solely to Catholic scholarship, which should be a Catholic’s primary reference point. The Holy Father specifically referenced the limitations of the critical method, and it would do as well for us to take note.
So what I say is not my wild, heretical opinion, but is based on the teachings of Catholic Bishops and Catholic scholars.
Theological speculations are not part of the “teachings of the Church.” Period. There is no “magisterium of Fr. Raymond Brown.” There is no “magisterium of John Meier.” There is no “magisterium of Fr. Joseph Fitzmeyer.” This also applies to more conservative theologians and scholars such as Dr. Brant Pitre, Dr. Scott Hahn, Dr. John Bergsma, Dr. Michael Barber, Sr. Edward Sri, etc. etc. There is the Church, and explanations presented by theologians, which may or may not fall into disuse or even be abandondoned due to further definition. Your opinion on the matter is valid, but in an effort to respond to the other side, you seem to have overstated the authority of your own position.
 
Not a big fan of the NAB.

Most other versions imply John was an eyewitness
 
The author/s of John’s (most likely the Johannine community at Ephesus) present a developed Christology which focuses on Christ’s divine nature and refutes the views of the Gnostics who were a growing presence at the end of the 1st Century.

It is more of a theological work rather than a historical one, compared with the Synoptic Gospels.
 
The author/s of John’s (most likely the Johannine community at Ephesus) present a developed Christology which focuses on Christ’s divine nature and refutes the views of the Gnostics who were a growing presence at the end of the 1st Century.

It is more of a theological work rather than a historical one, compared with the Synoptic Gospels.
This is an important point.

It’s also important to remember that the primary author of Scripture is God. It sounds trite to say that the Gospel is different because God wanted it that way, and I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but at its most basic level, this is true.

John’s Gospel is a deep work of theology, one which tells us of the divinity of Christ, the nature of the Trinity and the Eucharistic character of the Church. God used the great theologian John to reveal to us what he wanted us to know, that Jesus is Truth Himself, that the Father will send the “Spirit of Truth” and that Jesus and the Father are one.

God used John’s skills to teach us these things. John is like an expert weaver, using the threads of truth, spirit, life, love and unity to weave a fabric which tells us exactly what God want’s us to know about himself and the Eucharist.

-Tim-
 
If John was designed to be a theological treatise, then why bother to invent characters like Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, and Lazarus?
 
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