G
grandfather
Guest
That explains it.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Throne ~ Pedestal in a loose definition kind of way - especially when one is trying to build on a post from some other poster.
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Peter_J
Guest
Conventionally, yes, but if Grandfather doesn’t consider Anglicans to be Protestants then I certainly don’t have a problem with that.
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imroc
Guest
All we need is him, is very correct. How about those whom he speaks of who do not know him, but are in dire need of neighborly love? How about that poor homeless man who does not know the name of Christ, but needs him? How about that poor infant abandoned behind a bush, but needs him? How about that poor man cleaning the sewage gutters in India, but needs him? Are they to take Christ at his word? Even though they’ve never heard his word nor his voice? How will they all know him?
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grandfather
Guest
If it ain’t Catholic its Protestant.
I did not know the poster was Anglican. For some reason I thought he was Catholic. It should have been obvious from his posts that he was Protestant.
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grandfather
Guest
We are headed into the territory of mystery.
I have a theory, but it would take a lot of space.
In short, we can know how much our sin hurts God by seeing Him crucified. It leads to repentance. Seeing Him dead in His mothers arms has that effect. How is it possible that a little speck of dirt like me can cause God who made the entire universe pain? He came here and showed us how much we hurt Him, and His mother.
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churchcamefirst
Guest
When you die, you will see the Blessed Mother with the crown of Queen of Heaven. Jesus will be right by her side or vice versa.
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Peter_J
Guest
Fair enough.
So do you consider the Eastern Orthodox to be Catholic or Protestant? (I ask just out of curiosity – your opinion will not affect mine.)
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GailMac
Guest
Dear SIA, you are misunderstanding our angst with Risen. He claims to be a Catholic. This means he conforms his mind and heart to what the Church believes and teaches. In speaking on this and other threads, he has disclosed that he is if anything nominally Catholic and subscribes to several Protestant points of view. You, on the other had are Protestant of an Anglican culture, yet with a more Protestant evangelical mindset. But that is just my own observations.
The frustration I myself and others have expressed with Risen is that he claims to be Catholic and misrepresents what we as Catholics believe and teach. He is on his way out the door, God forbid! I’m praying he has a change of heart and mind and throws off whatever is distracting him from true love and devotion to Jesus.
The exclusion of Mary from your prayer life smacks of a fall taken already and this exclusion would be just a symptom of an illness that could lead a soul to disaster. I don’t expect you SIA, to agree with my opinion, but please try to understand it in a “catholic” way.
But back to the OP - Think of it this way - using the analogy of a marriage, Jesus would be the Head of the household and Mary would be the Heart. Both are necessary. I couldn’t even imagine what it would be like to practice my faith without Mary. It is nonsensical. It isn’t possible for me. I have no desire to give up my devotions to Mary to “deepen” my “relationship” to Christ. It isn’t necessary. It is absurd to think about and positively nuts to attempt it! I live this - where He is, she is and where she is He is for God has stated in Scripture “…where My servant is, there I am!” Don’t ask for Chapter and verse right now, you can look it up yourself. Just trust me on that! Mary IS God’s servant par excellence! Bar none! Where He is she is and where she is He is. You cannot be Catholic and exclude her. The soul who does that suffers sometimes irreparable harm and may even pay the ultimate price for doing so.
Risen is an example of the attempts some Catholics make in trying to be “open” to Protestant thinking in a vain attempt to be “ecumenical,” etc. and fall into a compromised position. But that brings me to the nature of true ecumenical efforts - they seek to bring those involved to the Truth, but many wind up watering down our faith to make it more palatable to those they are trying to reach out to. Oi. I am getting off topic again. Sorry.
Peace,
Gail
P.S. SIA why do you as an Anglican reject Mary? For many Anglicans do maintain devotion to our Lady?
The frustration I myself and others have expressed with Risen is that he claims to be Catholic and misrepresents what we as Catholics believe and teach. He is on his way out the door, God forbid! I’m praying he has a change of heart and mind and throws off whatever is distracting him from true love and devotion to Jesus.
The exclusion of Mary from your prayer life smacks of a fall taken already and this exclusion would be just a symptom of an illness that could lead a soul to disaster. I don’t expect you SIA, to agree with my opinion, but please try to understand it in a “catholic” way.
But back to the OP - Think of it this way - using the analogy of a marriage, Jesus would be the Head of the household and Mary would be the Heart. Both are necessary. I couldn’t even imagine what it would be like to practice my faith without Mary. It is nonsensical. It isn’t possible for me. I have no desire to give up my devotions to Mary to “deepen” my “relationship” to Christ. It isn’t necessary. It is absurd to think about and positively nuts to attempt it! I live this - where He is, she is and where she is He is for God has stated in Scripture “…where My servant is, there I am!” Don’t ask for Chapter and verse right now, you can look it up yourself. Just trust me on that! Mary IS God’s servant par excellence! Bar none! Where He is she is and where she is He is. You cannot be Catholic and exclude her. The soul who does that suffers sometimes irreparable harm and may even pay the ultimate price for doing so.
Risen is an example of the attempts some Catholics make in trying to be “open” to Protestant thinking in a vain attempt to be “ecumenical,” etc. and fall into a compromised position. But that brings me to the nature of true ecumenical efforts - they seek to bring those involved to the Truth, but many wind up watering down our faith to make it more palatable to those they are trying to reach out to. Oi. I am getting off topic again. Sorry.
Peace,
Gail
P.S. SIA why do you as an Anglican reject Mary? For many Anglicans do maintain devotion to our Lady?
O
onenow1
Guest
hi, All
Just want to ask these Questions? And comment. Can anyone explain Jesus without Mary ? And if you do, wouldn’t you be offending God ?
The Angel Gabriel says Hail full of Grace, notice the angel does not call Mary by name, but full of grace, this is a message directly from God. The glass is full not half full as some would have you believe.
Peace, OneNow1
Just want to ask these Questions? And comment. Can anyone explain Jesus without Mary ? And if you do, wouldn’t you be offending God ?
The Angel Gabriel says Hail full of Grace, notice the angel does not call Mary by name, but full of grace, this is a message directly from God. The glass is full not half full as some would have you believe.
Peace, OneNow1
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Peter_J
Guest
You’re right, the bible doesn’t explicitly say that Mary had a choice whether to be the Mother of God or not. Nor do any of the four Marian dogmas (although if “Co-redemptrix” were ever dogmatically defined, I imagine that would make that point explicitly – please note, I’m not trying to get into another discussion of whether there should be a fifth Marian dogma.)
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Peter_J
Guest
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Peter_J
Guest
GailMac,
I think you actually just revealed a lot more about yourself than about RisenAgain.
You might want to read Romans 14.
M
mmplps7783
Guest
protestants are not being obstinate nor rebellious toward Mary. First off protestants do not believe she stayed a virgin after his death (I am still looking into that for my own benefit) but that is a whole different topic. I can not speak for All protestants only myself when I say that I can respect the mother of my husband and on Mother’s Day treat her extra special but that is all. My salvation comes from the Lord. yes she had Him but He was the one who died for my sins. I respect Mary but I love her son.
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onenow1
Guest
God did not put Mary in the scriptures just as a proof text, he embellished her, with all the grace that he could possibly given to a human being with the exception of Jesus, in his huamanity and divinity Jesus was in the womb of Mary Two hearts beating as one .
It’s an undeniable fact that the supernatural, took residence in the ark of the new covenant, as Jesus said in John 6: 35 I Am the bread of life. Jesus was at work at the moment of His conception; Luke 1: 39-56.
Hope this helps a little to show Mary was of great importance in the life of Jesus.
Peace, OneNow1
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placido
Guest
Let us try same logic here: How many cents are there in one dollar? Have cents more value that the dollar?
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placido
Guest
Now, are we dealing with a “False Flag” or just a badly catechized Catholic? May be it is too early to speculate.I personally -as a Catholic- do not hold such logic.
Those whom I love the most I desire to be with and spend time with and speak with, the most. But this is not always possible- as you have communicated. However- with prayer - this is always possible.
It is possible that when I set myself to pray - I can pray to Jesus every time - can I not? And if I desire Jesus more than all - then to pray to someone other than him would be to cheat myself of the most precious, blood-bought communion that exists; that between the bride and her husband - Christ and his Church. This only shows where my passions and desires truly are.
If the Church has given us permission to pray to Mary - then great. But does the Church force us to pray to her over our Savior - or is this a matter of personal practice? Where is it commanded from the Church that we MUST pray to Mary at all? Yet Christ has commanded us to pray to him - and to call on his name.
If you as a Catholic find yourself praying to Mary more than you pray to JESUS CHRIST - though God keeps no “score-sheets” it is plain enough whom you desire more. Yes I am Catholic - but it is time for Catholics to be real, and point our fellow brothers and sisters back to the feet of Jesus!
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