Why is more Catechism not taught in CCD?

[bamaster47]

Being a cradle Catholic, I never went through RCIA, as many of you on this forum have. I attended public schools all my life, and although I am at a privately funded university now, it is not a Catholic school (it’s loosely affiliated with the ELCA, though there is a strong Catholic presence on campus ). My point is, the only formal education I have had in my faith was CCD at my parish, which I attended from preschool until my confirmation in the 10th grade, age 15.

Despite all the years of CCD that I attended, I feel as though it taught me very little of the actual Catechism of the Church. It taught me about God, Jesus, Mary, other major Biblical figures, and classic Bible stories, as well as themes such as faith and stewardship (all things that I could have learned about in any other Christian denomination), but I don’t remember ever being taught anything Catechism- or apologetics-related.

I suppose this could be because we were only children, and apologetics may have been too much for a children’s CCD class, but outside of CCD, I would have had no other opportunity to learn about apologetics or the Catechism had I not taken it upon myself to look it up, in places such as this.

I know that my faith has been greatly strengthened by learning about the Catechism and the apologetics behind it, and it saddens me to think that cradle Catholics such as myself may not be getting this information unless they too take it upon themselves to find it. I feel as though many teenagers, such as myself, could actually learn quite a bit by going through RCIA, even though we’re already confirmed.

I guess my question is, why is there not more Catechism/apologetics taught in CCD? I really think that it would be greatly beneficial, even if it isn’t until high school that it is introduced.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Because while the CCC is the primary teaching tool of the Church, its not the only way to teach. I think a lot of Roman Catholics have turned Protestants but instead of bible this and bible that, its CCC this and CCC that.

We must understand that the Catholic faith is not limited to one book or a series of documents. While the CCC is indeed a great tool, its not the only way to teach the faith.

 

[Julian0404]

I taught CCD for 10 yrs, 5th grade, 6th and 8th Grade and I was amazed at the text books that were provided. The text spoke “around” the faith, but never got into the meat and potatoes. Eventually, I used the text as as “additional” guide for the few good points that were contained therein, but put together separate material that started with the “truths” which they were to learn for their age group.

I was reported three times - by the same parent - regarding teaching the children against abortion and that masterbation was a mortal sin. Each time, Father called me in, we discussed the class material, and he supported me.

 

[puzzleannie]

I guess my question is, why is there not more Catechism/apologetics taught in CCD? I really think that it would be greatly beneficial, even if it isn’t until high school that it is introduced.

have you read the CCC? do you think it is suitable as a primary textbook for elementary or middle school children, or even high school children? Have you taught CCD? Are you aware of the reading level of most public school children? The textbook publishers are and have. It is very hard to teach if all you use is the CCC. It is more important for the catechist to be trained and formed using the catechism, than for the children to use it.

All the texts approved by the Catholic bishops are in conformity with the catechism and base their content and curriculum over all the years they cover on the 4 pillars of the catechims. So yes, the content of the CCC, if not the actual words, which are hard enough even for those of us with graduate degrees to digest in large doses, is taught in CCD. In high school or adult classes they should be taught that the doctrine is fully defined in the CCC, and be taught how to use it and find things, as a reference, but as the only text it is going to be very hard to transmit the knowledge to the average high school class in the evening after they have been at school all day.

Just because a particular student does not recall using a Catechism, or did not himself learn certain topics, also does not mean they were not taught. It may be that the student was not receptive, for whatever reason, to that lesson at that time.

I will go on repeating until you all shut my mouf or get bored, if you are unhappy with the way CCD is taught in your parish get involved, get prepared, volunteer, and provide one catechist who is teaching sound doctrine.

 

[Wildkit]

I was reported three times - by the same parent - regarding teaching the children against abortion and that masterbation was a mortal sin. Each time, Father called me in, we discussed the class material, and he supported me.

I trust that the Priest instructed that parent what is taught and understood by the Church!
Yet, as you were called in three times,…let us pray for our priests.

 

[bamaster47]

have you read the CCC? do you think it is suitable as a primary textbook for elementary or middle school children, or even high school children? Have you taught CCD? Are you aware of the reading level of most public school children? The textbook publishers are and have. It is very hard to teach if all you use is the CCC. It is more important for the catechist to be trained and formed using the catechism, than for the children to use it.

I have read it, and no, I do not think that the unedited text of the CCC would be a suitable textbook for children. Nor do I think it should be the sole text used in CCD. I do not have a complaint in that regard.

I am saying that I feel that some introduction to Catechism should be taught in upper-level CCD classes. If it is not, the only way for young Catholics to get this information would be to seek it out on their own. If they do not take this initiative, the risk that they may be swayed by non-Catholic ideas is greater, in my opinion.

Please correct me if I am wrong in anything that I have said.

Just because a particular student does not recall using a Catechism, or did not himself learn certain topics, also does not mean they were not taught. It may be that the student was not receptive, for whatever reason, to that lesson at that time.

This is quite possible. I can’t help but feel as though you are insinuating that I was unattentive in my CCD classes, however. While I cannot necessarily disprove you if this is your assumption, I will say that I am mildly offended if that was how you meant that statement to come across. Please clarify so that I may understand what you meant.

 

[Samuel63]

This is a great question. I have another anectdote to offer that is supportive of the previous. In our parish, the CCD program is tightly controlled by the liberal side of the church. The catechism is not used at all. Once, the director of religious education (DRE) proclaimed the CCC should never be used in the classroom. Most of the catechists in the audience were clueless and had no basis for a rebuttal.

You can be reasonably certain of this. If the catechism is not a prominent part of the CCD program, there is a reason. Our pope helped to craft this summary of the church’s position and even called it a “sure norm for teaching.” The reason is simple, the managers of this program have an agenda that is not aligned with our Church.

Dig a little further and find out if any of the pope’s statements and recent addresses to the youth have been propagated by the leaders of this so called CCD program. For example, has the recent release of YouCat been discussed? This is a fantastic resource for upper-level grades.

You will likely find the parish you are connecte to has been comprimised with modernity and liberalism. The common reaction is to “hop” to the next parish and hope for better results. I have an alternative to suggest. Teach the faith at home using reliable resource material (Bible, Catechism, Faith and Life series from Ignatius Press, Devotions, etc.). Practice receiving the sacraments as often as possible - penance and eucharist. Stay at the local parish and fight for change in a calm and resolute manner - persevere!

It is time to take back our parishes from “Sister New Age.”

 

[bamaster47]

I taught CCD for 10 yrs, 5th grade, 6th and 8th Grade and I was amazed at the text books that were provided. The text spoke “around” the faith, but never got into the meat and potatoes. Eventually, I used the text as as “additional” guide for the few good points that were contained therein, but put together separate material that started with the “truths” which they were to learn for their age group.

I was reported three times - by the same parent - regarding teaching the children against abortion and that masterbation was a mortal sin. Each time, Father called me in, we discussed the class material, and he supported me.

The textbooks you are describing illustrate what I am trying to say quite well. I feel that CCD does a good job of teaching about Biblical figures and stories, but one will never learn why abortion, masturbation, homosexual acts, etc. are sins.

Glad that Father supported you in those instances.

 

[jmcrae]

I trust that the Priest instructed that parent what is taught and understood by the Church!
Yet, as you were called in three times,…let us pray for our priests.

Being “called in” to the priest’s office doesn’t always mean that you are in trouble. Quite often, he just wants to alert you to a situation, and let you know how he would like you to react to it.

 

[Waiting]

Being a cradle Catholic, I never went through RCIA, as many of you on this forum have. I attended public schools all my life, and although I am at a privately funded university now, it is not a Catholic school (it’s loosely affiliated with the ELCA, though there is a strong Catholic presence on campus ). My point is, the only formal education I have had in my faith was CCD at my parish, which I attended from preschool until my confirmation in the 10th grade, age 15.

Despite all the years of CCD that I attended, I feel as though it taught me very little of the actual Catechism of the Church. It taught me about God, Jesus, Mary, other major Biblical figures, and classic Bible stories, as well as themes such as faith and stewardship (all things that I could have learned about in any other Christian denomination), but I don’t remember ever being taught anything Catechism- or apologetics-related.

I suppose this could be because we were only children, and apologetics may have been too much for a children’s CCD class, but outside of CCD, I would have had no other opportunity to learn about apologetics or the Catechism had I not taken it upon myself to look it up, in places such as this.

I know that my faith has been greatly strengthened by learning about the Catechism and the apologetics behind it, and it saddens me to think that cradle Catholics such as myself may not be getting this information unless they too take it upon themselves to find it. I feel as though many teenagers, such as myself, could actually learn quite a bit by going through RCIA, even though we’re already confirmed.

I guess my question is, why is there not more Catechism/apologetics taught in CCD? I really think that it would be greatly beneficial, even if it isn’t until high school that it is introduced.

You are absolutely right. When I began teaching CCD back in the 50s, we all taught from the Catechism, which was age proper for children. Then in the 60s it all changed. The texts that were issued us were almost completely without benefit of teaching basic Catholic fundamentals. I was confused and upset, but refused to conform to the new method of instruction, which was like reading from a non-denominational social studies text. Tolerance and love for all were emphasized, which was well and good, but our children did not learn basics of Catholicism. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that there began a great exodus from the Church. It appeared that there was little difference among doctrines. How could a Catholic child defend his faith when challenged, if he was never taught the essentials of his faith? As long as I continued to teach, I continued to teach from the Catechism along with the assigned text. I have not checked the current texts. I hope that they have returned, at least to some degree, to teaching basic Catholicism.

I’m happy that you are taking the initiative in learning what Catholics of old were given as a natural part of their education as young children. God bless.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The OP says he stopped attending classes when he was 15. It wouldn’t have mattered what kind of text they were using. It wouldn’t have equipped him with everything he needed to know about Catholicism for the rest of his life. There isn’t any other subject where we would assume a tenth grade education was sufficient, so why assume that about faith formation?

We need to encourage all our parishes to offer continuing formation for adults and we need to encourage people to attend!

 

[bamaster47]

You will likely find the parish you are connecte to has been comprimised with modernity and liberalism.

This is a scary thought! I can’t say I didn’t suspect this, though. Given my parish’s reaction to my parents’ marriage (allowing my mother to receive the Eucharist even though she is not Catholic) and their “custom” of not kneeling during the Transubstantiation, I have often thought that they are either a bit more liberal about the details, or they are just unaware…I don’t know how it could be the latter, though.

It is time to take back our parishes from “Sister New Age.”

Agreed.

 

[Samuel63]

Adult formation in the community that is faithful to the magisterium is in a word, priceless.

In one of Pope Benedict’s statements related to YouCat, he said the current adult population has suffered from poor catechesis for 40 years. He implied, this group of adults is almost unable to pass on the faith to the kids. This is one of the reasons he supported the publication of YouCat. We have two copies at home.

Adult faith formation is tricky. There are a lot of very liberal, meaningless programs in our parishes today for adults. I think you need to make contact with a group outside the parish and maybe even diocese to get good material to start a faith formation group. Futon Sheet once said America would receive missionaries from other countries. Most did not get what he was trying to convey.

I found a great resouce in Miles Christi - www.mileschristi.org. Please check it out and attend an activity if it is in your area.

 

[chaunceygardner]

A couple of decades back I was a confirmation instructor at the parish I was a member of at that time. At the first session we reviewed the Nicene Creed (figured it was an easy and familiar way to introduce the concepts that they should know and understand). These were high school sophomores. I was rendered speechless when, after reading through the creed, one of the students asked: “What is a Pontius Pilate?”

Very quickly I realized that few of these students had any strong foundation in the basics of their faith. And this was at a parish that was noted for having a strong religious formation program. I realized that there was not much I could do in a few months to counteract a dozen years of inadequate education. But I tried to do as much as I could. I basically scrapped the curriculum and used the gospels, primarily several chapters from Matthew, and wove them into the themes we instructors were supposed to cover. I gave them homework, something unheard of until that time. Part of it consisted of questions that could only be answered by using the bible that each student had received when they entered the program. In essence I forced them to open up the bible and read it (also a new concept for most).

I also asked several Protestant friends of my own kids about what religious formation they received. It was considerably better than anything our parish was doing. One girl said that their pastor quizzed each candidate for confirmation individually, and if they didn’t know their stuff, they did not get confirmed.

In contrast, I told our religious education director that I could have only recommended perhaps two out of my 12-14 students as being really ready for confirmation (I was teaching the first year of a two year program). Some, I said, didn’t even accept the core tenets of Catholicism; a few were borderline atheists. But that didn’t matter, as long as they attended enough of the sessions over a two year period, they were confirmed. It was quantity that mattered, not quality.

Most of these kids were rarely seen in church except for the Mass that was part of each Sunday’s class. Were their parents there? No, most dropped their kids off for the class and picked them up after Mass. I wondered what example these parents were giving their children? There was little faith building of any kind, just a feeling by the kids that they had to “do the time” and get confirmed, mostly for appearances sake.

That was my long answer. My short answer is that the catechism does not have to be taught, but it should form the basis of what is taught. That and a generous portion of the Bible. And it should start early and continue building in depth and breadth as the student gets older and more mature.

One last point. Just like the kids in my confirmation class, most Catholics stop growing in knowledge of their faith once they get confirmed. There is litttle that I have seen in the way of continuing, comprehensive religious formation for adults. Most Catholics get what amounts to, at best, a grade school level education in their faith. Yet we expect them to make adult decisions from that, and to be able to defend their faith when they lack the training and weapons to do so. Contrast that with many Protestant faiths (and Judaism and Islam) which expect much more and provide the means to achieve it. Some Protestants I know spend hours and hours at their church each week, praying and learning and working and sharing (and evangelizing). Most Catholics, unfortunately, stop “growing in their faith” when they are 14 or 15. So start early, make it meaningful, and never stop.

 

[bamaster47]

Chauncey, I would quote your entire post if it weren’t so long. Much of what you said, I also witnessed as I went through Confirmation classes. It both frustrated and disappointed me. I remember one Confirmation student telling one of our deacons (who was the teacher of the class I was in and my Confirmation sponsor) that she didn’t believe in the Trinity. :doh2:

My short answer is that the catechism does not have to be taught, but it should form the basis of what is taught. That and a generous portion of the Bible. And it should start early and continue building in depth and breadth as the student gets older and more mature.

Agreed, though I think that the CCC needs to be present in the lesson, whether it’s the YouCat version or the original. I don’t mind teachers watering down the language a bit if it means that the concepts can be more effectively taught.

 

[guanophore]

Being a cradle Catholic, I never went through RCIA, as many of you on this forum have. I attended public schools all my life, and although I am at a privately funded university now, it is not a Catholic school (it’s loosely affiliated with the ELCA, though there is a strong Catholic presence on campus ). My point is, the only formal education I have had in my faith was CCD at my parish, which I attended from preschool until my confirmation in the 10th grade, age 15.

Despite all the years of CCD that I attended, I feel as though it taught me very little of the actual Catechism of the Church. It taught me about God, Jesus, Mary, other major Biblical figures, and classic Bible stories, as well as themes such as faith and stewardship (all things that I could have learned about in any other Christian denomination), but I don’t remember ever being taught anything Catechism- or apologetics-related.

I suppose this could be because we were only children, and apologetics may have been too much for a children’s CCD class, but outside of CCD, I would have had no other opportunity to learn about apologetics or the Catechism had I not taken it upon myself to look it up, in places such as this.

I know that my faith has been greatly strengthened by learning about the Catechism and the apologetics behind it, and it saddens me to think that cradle Catholics such as myself may not be getting this information unless they too take it upon themselves to find it. I feel as though many teenagers, such as myself, could actually learn quite a bit by going through RCIA, even though we’re already confirmed.

I guess my question is, why is there not more Catechism/apologetics taught in CCD? I really think that it would be greatly beneficial, even if it isn’t until high school that it is introduced.

They were waiting for you to be ready.

 

[Usige]

… I could have only recommended perhaps two out of my 12-14 students as being really ready for confirmation (I was teaching the first year of a two year program). Some, I said, didn’t even accept the core tenets of Catholicism; a few were borderline atheists. But that didn’t matter, as long as they attended enough of the sessions over a two year period, they were confirmed. It was quantity that mattered, not quality.

I had a similar experience last year with a sophomore confirmation class. At our first class we played a little “game” where we put sign on the wall that said Agree, Unsure, Disagree. We then asked the students questions about the faith and they would move to the area near the sign they agreed with. When we asked “Christ is fully human and divine?” 2 went to the sign that said Agree, 6 in the Unsure, and 4 in the Disagree. We were not allowed to “correct” them, but use its as a discussion point to see where they were “on their spiritual journey.” Through the rest of the year we \were not allow to talk about sin, grace, or basically anything to do with salvation because the students might get turned off if we were “preachy.” The focus was not on Catholicism, but respecting that everyone is in different places on their journey.

I am fine respecting that not everyone is in the same place with their faith, but it’s hard to see kids that see Christ as “… just a good guy that died 2000 years ago” receiving Confirmation. When I said something to the RE director I was told if we correct them it would just drive them away and it was better for them to be in the Church with a poor understanding of their faith than for them to leave it.

 

[Usige]

Agreed, though I think that the CCC needs to be present in the lesson, whether it’s the YouCat version or the original. I don’t mind teachers watering down the language a bit if it means that the concepts can be more effectively taught.

I agree. You can go through the Catechism at a high level even if it’s not the primary source. When I was in RCIA we received a compendium to the Catechism that basically took the major tenants of the faith and gave a condensed version with references to the related portions of the CCC. You can do the same thing in most CCD classes when they are older.

One of the fears I have is that our diocese has moved to have all kids confirmed by the end of 8th grade. The differences in the maturity level of kids that age make it very difficult to effectively go over some of the weightier portions of Catholic doctrine (abortion, social justice, etc.) We were also not allowed to introduce some of those topics because the parents don’t want us to “push morality on them.”

As a general rule less than 3% of the students return for “advanced catechisis” after they have been confirmed. (Actually we seem to see them for a year or 2 before first communion and then about 70% disappear until the 2 years required for confirmation). Because of that it’s really difficult to get them firmly grounded in their faith before they move on to college when most of them could use that firm foundation the most.

 

[puzzleannie]

I
This is quite possible. I can’t help but feel as though you are insinuating that I was unattentive in my CCD classes,

I did not insinuate anything, I made no personal allusion whatever. I stated a fact, any given student at any given time may or may not be receptive, for whatever reason, to the content of a given lesson. Please do not look for ill intention where none exists.

In our program we offer apologetics, more advanced scripture study, moral theology and several other topics to post-Confirmation students, and usually only 3 or 4 come back each year after confirmation. If they want this, it is available, and the catechists make several invitations and presentations to the confirmation class and parents so they know what is offered, yet I get complaints almost word for word from what your OP says. Those complainers simply did not respond and take what was offered, yet are critical of the parish. Go figure.

 

[chaunceygardner]

I had a similar experience last year with a sophomore confirmation class. At our first class we played a little “game” where we put sign on the wall that said Agree, Unsure, Disagree. We then asked the students questions about the faith and they would move to the area near the sign they agreed with. When we asked “Christ is fully human and divine?” 2 went to the sign that said Agree, 6 in the Unsure, and 4 in the Disagree. We were not allowed to “correct” them, but use its as a discussion point to see where they were “on their spiritual journey.” Through the rest of the year we \were not allow to talk about sin, grace, or basically anything to do with salvation because the students might get turned off if we were “preachy.” The focus was not on Catholicism, but respecting that everyone is in different places on their journey.

I am fine respecting that not everyone is in the same place with their faith, but it’s hard to see kids that see Christ as “… just a good guy that died 2000 years ago” receiving Confirmation. When I said something to the RE director I was told if we correct them it would just drive them away and it was better for them to be in the Church with a poor understanding of their faith than for them to leave it.

Were we in the same parish? If not, that attitude might be pandemic, for I heard exactly the same thing. The prevailing wisdom was that it was better not to try to correct their thinking lest they not come back. My response was that I would rather confirm four or five students who truly understood their faith and wanted to live it, than go through the motions with a couple of dozen who were clueless at best and heretics at worst.

But the pastor and diocese wanted numbers. So we confirmed virtual protestants, agnostics, and atheists as full fledged members of the Church. My DRE said that, sure, most will likely not come to church in the future, but perhaps some day a few will return (when they want to get married or have their kids baptized).