Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[FaithofAbraham]

Faith, I’ve tried to help you but I see that you are not willing to look at what I say, you merely seek to advance your own agenda, and, to my mind, argue for the sake of arguing.

Goodbye. I won’t trouble you with replying to your posts any more. It doesn’t benefit anyone.

I understand perfectly what you say and what Trinity is supposed to be: there is God the Father, and His Word, and His Spirit, all equal in one God.

But whatever that once was, it’s not any longer once you bind the subordinate spirit of Jesus to God’s Word as the Son. You have a part man as a lesser God than the Father and the Spirit, which is Arianism.

Which is why I stick to my belief that God just went to dwell in a man, the man became a prophet and God’s Word to the people since that’s what a prophet does, he speaks God’s Word.

Then was further elevated to be Messiah and King of the World because he remained obedient to God to the death, like a God over us but not THE God.

Then you have the human Messiah over here, and the one monotheistic God over there. No problems, no Arianism disguised as Trinity. Simple.

 

[MelanieAnne]

**This is not right. Either there is One God or three gods. You cannot have three gods and one god at the same time. I have discussed trinity with christian friends. they admitted that it is not explanable. They said it is a mystery. How bad to make the matter a mystery.

You can know god in three ways. That is no good. God has many attributes. Why do you limit them to three only, i mean omnipotence, Omnipresence, all powerful, merciful, Beneficient, Seeing, knowing, talking God. These are just a few of his attributes. But it does not mean that they (attributes) are gods.

Our God does not need anything. Every one needs Him. But your god needs a son. Does He really? If you care to understand, you will find some interesting things in Islam. What Muhammad taught about God is quite well the same as the belief of the Jews. i.e. as far as God is concerned.**

The fact that your human mind cannot comprehend the nature of God in its entirety does not mean that God’s nature is somehow reduced to something you can understand.

And this is a Catholic forum. This is not a place for you to attempt to convert Catholics to your beliefs. Your attempts to do so are contrary to the rules you agreed to abide by when registering with this forum.

 

[ralphinal]

There is One God. Only one. No other Gods. According to the Bible, that one God is three persons.

Look at this site
bible.ca/trinity/trinity-proof-texts.htm

or this
montney.com/inspire/trinity.htm

FoA, Jesus human will was always subservient to his Devine one. His spirit is the same way. He is truely God and Truely Man. Once he rose from the dead, as with all human souls who attain paradise, his will and soul is eternally fixed on God. He is God.

This is a major issue between our faiths. Jesus was more than a prophet. He is GOD. I cannot help that it is not easy to understand. There are lots of things that are hard to understand in this life. Just because we cannot understand them does not make them false.

 

[Valke2]

The fact that your human mind cannot comprehend the nature of God in its entirety does not mean that God’s nature is somehow reduced to something you can understand.

And this is a Catholic forum. This is not a place for you to attempt to convert Catholics to your beliefs. Your attempts to do so are contrary to the rules you agreed to abide by when registering with this forum.

If FoA is trying to convert, I’d say he’s doing a poor job. It took about 600 posts for me to figure out what his faith was. You may disagree with him but I don’t think it’s fair to accuse him of prostelytizing (sp?).

 

[MelanieAnne]

If FoA is trying to convert, I’d say he’s doing a poor job. It took about 600 posts for me to figure out what his faith was. You may disagree with him but I don’t think it’s fair to accuse him of prostelytizing (sp?).

We’re all entitled to our own opinion. I see it differently. I see FofA attempting to straddle between a number of faiths, but he does this by rationalizing his own imperfect understanding of those faiths, at least Christianity. (I can’t speak to the other faiths that he has synthesized into the one he follows.)

One of the things that is missing for FofA by doing this is community. It is doubtful that there are a large number of persons that worship God as he does. If so, then he is left with only one alternative ~ worshiping alone, in whatever way he chooses and wherever he chooses. The lack of community, at least for Christians, takes away an essential aspect of worship.

But Jesus left us with a faith, an array of sacraments, and a hierarchy. Not our way, but His way. No one is required to follow Jesus of course. But it seems rather silly to reject the Truth when you don’t really know what the Truth is. At the very least, the posts of FofA show that his understanding of Christianity is fundamentally flawed.

I have tried to explain this to FofA but it seems to me he doesn’t want to look at any information that might cause him to have to re-think his opinions. That’s fine. But I’m not going to spend any more time answering his questions because there’s no point in doing so.

 

[hamba2han]

I have a general question. The Quran as I understand it is written in a type of poetry and is meant to be highly interpetive in many ways. Couldn’t there be other interpetations of the Arabic in the above verse as to what happened to Jesus?

The Qur’an is most definitely NOT “meant to be highly interpretive in many ways”.

There are certain things in Islam which are intentionally not explained in detail for reasons known only to the Creator.

And when one realises that the whole purpose of life is to prepare oneself for the Hereafter where all that we wish to know will be revealed to us God-willing, then what really is the urgency to know minor details of this sort while we are still in this world?

Referring to the verse in question, I do not think that there is any ambiguity at all in understanding the point that Jesus (pbuh) was neither crucified nor was he killed.

And so, is there then a good reason for Muslims to want to delve deeper into these kind of trivial matters which really will not bring any benefit at all to us in this world?

 

[Booklover]

This is not right. Either there is One God or three gods. You cannot have three gods and one god at the same time. I have discussed trinity with christian friends. they admitted that it is not explanable. They said it is a mystery. How bad to make the matter a mystery.

You can know god in three ways. That is no good. God has many attributes. Why do you limit them to three only, i mean omnipotence, Omnipresence, all powerful, merciful, Beneficient, Seeing, knowing, talking God. These are just a few of his attributes. But it does not mean that they (attributes) are gods.

Our God does not need anything. Every one needs Him. But your god needs a son. Does He really? If you care to understand, you will find some interesting things in Islam. What Muhammad taught about God is quite well the same as the belief of the Jews. i.e. as far as God is concerned.

If you could understand everything about God, you would either be a god yourself, or God would not be God! Period!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

The Qur’an is most definitely NOT “meant to be highly interpretive in many ways”.

There are certain things in Islam which are intentionally not explained in detail for reasons known only to the Creator.

And when one realises that the whole purpose of life is to prepare oneself for the Hereafter where all that we wish to know will be revealed to us God-willing, then what really is the urgency to know minor details of this sort while we are still in this world?

Referring to the verse in question, I do not think that there is any ambiguity at all in understanding the point that Jesus (pbuh) was neither crucified nor was he killed.

And so, is there then a good reason for Muslims to want to delve deeper into these kind of trivial matters which really will not bring any benefit at all to us in this world?

God never reveals anything to the proud or the arrogant!

Vickie

 

[MelanieAnne]

Referring to the verse in question, I do not think that there is any ambiguity at all in understanding the point that Jesus (pbuh) was neither crucified nor was he killed.

So all those who went after him who had seen Jesus die and then saw Him resurrected, who proceeded to tell the world what they saw, even though such testimony often cost them their lives, ALL these peoples were liars? or insane?

Because to make the assertion that Jesus was neither crucified nor killed, you would also have to concede that those that testified otherwise from their personal experience did so falsely.

 

[Booklover]

So all those who went after him who had seen Jesus die and then saw Him resurrected, who proceeded to tell the world what they saw, even though such testimony often cost them their lives, ALL these peoples were liars? or insane?

Because to make the assertion that Jesus was neither crucified nor killed, you would also have to concede that those that testified otherwise from their personal experience did so falsely.

Melanie Anne, I commend you for your patience!

Vickie

 

[Valke2]

We’re all entitled to our own opinion. I see it differently. I see FofA attempting to straddle between a number of faiths, but he does this by rationalizing his own imperfect understanding of those faiths, at least Christianity. (I can’t speak to the other faiths that he has synthesized into the one he follows.)

One of the things that is missing for FofA by doing this is community. It is doubtful that there are a large number of persons that worship God as he does. If so, then he is left with only one alternative ~ worshiping alone, in whatever way he chooses and wherever he chooses. The lack of community, at least for Christians, takes away an essential aspect of worship.

But Jesus left us with a faith, an array of sacraments, and a hierarchy. Not our way, but His way. No one is required to follow Jesus of course. But it seems rather silly to reject the Truth when you don’t really know what the Truth is. At the very least, the posts of FofA show that his understanding of Christianity is fundamentally flawed.

I have tried to explain this to FofA but it seems to me he doesn’t want to look at any information that might cause him to have to re-think his opinions. That’s fine. But I’m not going to spend any more time answering his questions because there’s no point in doing so.

My only point was that he is not prosteyltizing

 

[MelanieAnne]

Thanks Vickie, although that patience has been wearing a bit thin lately!!

 

[MelanieAnne]

My only point was that he is not prosteyltizing

I guess that depends on how you define the term. I think he is. But again, you’re entitled to your opinion.

 

[Valke2]

The Qur’an is most definitely NOT “meant to be highly interpretive in many ways”.

There are certain things in Islam which are intentionally not explained in detail for reasons known only to the Creator.

And when one realises that the whole purpose of life is to prepare oneself for the Hereafter where all that we wish to know will be revealed to us God-willing, then what really is the urgency to know minor details of this sort while we are still in this world?

Referring to the verse in question, I do not think that there is any ambiguity at all in understanding the point that Jesus (pbuh) was neither crucified nor was he killed.

And so, is there then a good reason for Muslims to want to delve deeper into these kind of trivial matters which really will not bring any benefit at all to us in this world?

How can poetry not be meant to be open to interpetation? Or at least be viewed to mean something other than what it literally says?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

FoA, Jesus human will was always subservient to his Devine one. His spirit is the same way. He is truely God and Truely Man. Once he rose from the dead, as with all human souls who attain paradise, his will and soul is eternally fixed on God. He is God.

That may be in your belief, but that makes your belief Arianism of a lesser human/God below a greater God, not monotheism as Trinity claims to be.

 

[inJESUS]

That may be in your belief, but that makes your belief Arianism of a lesser human/God below a greater God, not monotheism as Trinity claims to be.

again, confusing Incarnation with Trinity.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

again, confusing Incarnation with Trinity.

So you are saying Jesus unincarnated at some point and there is no human part of Jesus subordinate to God anymore?

 

[ralphinal]

That may be in your belief, but that makes your belief Arianism of a lesser human/God below a greater God, not monotheism as Trinity claims to be.

I don’t see it, sorry. I beleive in One and only One God. Not a lesser god, not anything below. One God. One and only One. Jesus is not less than God, he is God. His role is different than that of the Father, but he is God. Not a lesser God. God.

 

[inJESUS]

I’ve not seen that Mohammed brings a different Gospel, but one that clarifies the mystery and confusion of how Christians interpret Gospel.

strange, i haven’t seen one correct argument presented by Muhammad against Christianity, and the result is Muslims thinking all kinds of things we do not believe in in the first place, which raises huge questions about the “all-knowing” deity of the Quran “clearing” anything…i’d say misrepresenting and confusing fits perfectly.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I don’t see it, sorry. I beleive in One and only One God. Not a lesser god, not anything below. One God. One and only One. Jesus is not less than God, he is God. His role is different than that of the Father, but he is God. Not a lesser God. God.

Yeah I get all that, it’s the Trinity existing before the human part of Jesus existed. But now that the human part exists and is bound to the Word as the Son, then the Son is lesser in power because it needs the Father to save him.

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

So you have no three equal parts anymore, you have two equal parts of Father and Spirit, and then another 1/3 that is the Word bound to a human spirit that depends on and is obedient to the Father.

So 2/3 greater God in Father/Spirit, 1/3 lesser God in Word/human Jesus. That’s not monotheism, it’s Arianism.